lose-weight-before-trying-cpap-sleep-apnea-treatments

BlackSpinner wrote:

Todzo wrote:
I would dearly like to believe that you are right BlackSpinner however the very sad sad usability numbers coupled with the guidelines builders' assessment that no statistically significant indication of improvement was found in the research reviewed for Quality of Life, neurocognitive, psychological, blood pressure, hemoglobin A1c, hypertension, cardiovascular events, and heart failure symptoms would indicate that you are not.

No the papers don't say that. Most of them state there is no research to prove it. Which is a whole different animal.

I think we both agree that more research needs to be done.

What I would really like to see is for someone to create an automated CPAP data gathering and presentation system that would work to download and use the nightly CPAP data. To make it available for the patient on a daily basis for lifestyle feedback and to explain problems noted in days. To flag problems as they occur. To inform the medical teams when there is a serious or continuing problem.

And then that someone would set up a little “CPAP University” program that provides classroom and homework time:

- To establish good and proper mask fit and comfort and leak proof nighttime use from the very first.
- To establish a good understanding of the acclimation process with time spent regularly with the machine during the daytime. Time in bed learning to breath at rates not above what would normally be and to check mask fit and hose management issues. Time spent with minor distraction to help establish the new breathing reflexes while using the CPAP.
- To establish a good understanding of how to use the gathered CPAP data to manage lifestyle well and to deal with problems as they do occur.
- To start the ongoing relationships with the dietitian and personal trainer.

Then I would like to see some comparative studies looking at those whose data is constantly used and who have good education and preparation to use CPAP compared to those who receive standard care.

And then some studies on how CPAP does to reduce the clinical markers mentioned above.

You're not going to get people to learn how to breathe differently! Nonsense!

Julie wrote:You're not going to get people to learn how to breathe differently! Nonsense!

I know what is possible because I have experianced it.

Todzo wrote:

Julie wrote:You're not going to get people to learn how to breathe differently! Nonsense!

I know what is possible because I have experianced it.

The only thing you have "experianced" is being an asshole.

You asshole.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Sludge wrote:

Todzo wrote:

Julie wrote:You're not going to get people to learn how to breathe differently! Nonsense!

I know what is possible because I have experianced it.

The only thing you have "experianced" is being an asshole.

You asshole.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Hmm, someone who has gone through several identities and who has resorted to name calling in several posts is calling someone an asshole

By the way, I agree with Julie's post. I just don't think it is appropriate to call someone an asshole on this forum.

49er

49er wrote: I just don't think it is appropriate to call someone an asshole on this forum.

In YOUR opinion...

Sludge wrote:

49er wrote: I just don't think it is appropriate to call someone an asshole on this forum.

In YOUR opinion...

...but then again, you're just so much better than everybody else, that's all that matters...

Sludge wrote:

Sludge wrote:

49er wrote: I just don't think it is appropriate to call someone an asshole on this forum.

In YOUR opinion...

...but then again, you're just so much better than everybody else, that's all that matters...

LOL as I wish that were the case. And if you had just seen me struggle to put cartridges in my printer, you definitely wouldn't have been saying that.

But all jokes aside, once again you are engaging in your typical responses to divert attention from the real issues.

49er

Sludge wrote:

Todzo wrote:

Julie wrote:You're not going to get people to learn how to breathe differently! Nonsense!

I know what is possible because I have experianced it.

The only thing you have "experianced" is being an asshole.

You asshole.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Sludge, if you really are wishing Todzo Happy Thanksgiving then an apology is also in order . We all agree, Todzo is a little "out there" but he means no harm and is never offensive to anyone. Mike and I wish you a Happy Thanksgiving too!

49er wrote: But all jokes aside, once again you are engaging in your typical responses to divert attention from the real issues.

49er

Unless you enjoy the nonsense, the "Foe" feature can be your friend.

(BTW, when you include a quote from one of the "assholes", you are just giving them a wider audience. Those who have "foes" never see them unless someone quotes their drivel. Jus sayin'...)

LinkC wrote:

49er wrote: But all jokes aside, once again you are engaging in your typical responses to divert attention from the real issues.

49er

Unless you enjoy the nonsense, the "Foe" feature can be your friend.

(BTW, when you include a quote from one of the "assholes", you are just giving them a wider audience. Those who have "foes" never see them unless someone quotes their drivel. Jus sayin'...)

Thanks Link for the advice on the quote. It is so ingrained in me to include it that I don't stop and think about the ramifications for each situation. So I greatly appreciate what you said.

I will give the "Foe" feature a shot.

Thank again for chiming in.

49er

PS - Foe list won't work because Sludge's name doesn't come up as a forum member.

Todzo wrote:

Julie wrote:You're not going to get people to learn how to breathe differently! Nonsense!

I know what is possible because I have experianced it.

Yes and some people have experienced winning a marathon or climbing mount Everest. Just because some human can do it doesn't mean you can. For example I had two babies, If I can do it so can you you and don't give that excuse that you don't have the equipment because if you really wanted to birth babies you can, it is just mind over matter.

BlackSpinner wrote:

Todzo wrote:

Julie wrote:You're not going to get people to learn how to breathe differently! Nonsense!

I know what is possible because I have experianced it.

Yes and some people have experienced winning a marathon or climbing mount Everest. Just because some human can do it doesn't mean you can. For example I had two babies, If I can do it so can you you and don't give that excuse that you don't have the equipment because if you really wanted to birth babies you can, it is just mind over matter.

Even if the acclimation times did not deal with the issues of high respiratory control system gain (which my data would indicate that it does) it would make the person more familiar with the equipment and so lessen the initial stress of using it. That alone is likely to help with respiratory control system gain and arousal threshold. In other words the person is more likely to be able to have a good initial experience with using the equipment.

Right now, as things are, using the standard practice of one night of super expensive sleep tests followed by perhaps an hour with an RT and you are on your way - I do believe that the effects on quality of life, neurocognitive, psychological, blood pressure, hemoglobin A1c, hypertension, cardiovascular events, and heart failure symptoms from CPAP use would be very modest.

Using good initial education and acclimation along with continuing correction from the nightly data as well as working to correct some of the things which cause or at least enable OSA I believe the effects on neurocognitive, psychological, blood pressure, hemoglobin A1c, hypertension, cardiovascular events, and heart failure symptoms from the much better managed CPAP use would be quite notable.

Todzo I have in the past taught various breathing and pain relief techniques and most people still did not practice them enough to get the benefit from them. Think about it, chronic pain was not a motivator enough to spend 1/2 an hour a day practising for many people.

BlackSpinner wrote:Todzo I have in the past taught various breathing and pain relief techniques and most people still did not practice them enough to get the benefit from them. Think about it, chronic pain was not a motivator enough to spend 1/2 an hour a day practising for many people.

Perhaps we would quickly learn that some of the sessions need to be hours long so the person can practice with the machine in class. Then, at least, the people who respond to the issues that would come up in the data would have something familiar to recommend to the person when they followup.