Homeless W/Severe Sleep Apnea

Todzo wrote:If you give people what they really need to become independant - then they can.

NFS.

If a person can get a sleep study - he should be able to get a machine. So, something isnt right

Connectplus1 wrote:If a person can get a sleep study - he should be able to get a machine. So, something isnt right

Agreed!

And why would a homeless person struggle with a "borrowed" (from another homeless person?) cellphone when they can go to a nice warm public library with flush toilets & internet connection. The guy wasn't even a very good troll.
Carpenoctum

PS: cell phone emails have a "signature" line stating their origin. This guys posts didn't.

No one likes to be falsely accused. It is often harmful with damages. So much so that the legal system has developed many sets of laws to deal with the issues!!!

When I read what jos wrote I can well relate back to my own times of being homeless. I had severe OSA with my O2 levels going down to 55%. I was showing executive dysfunction as has been documented in many with OSA (e.g. [1]). I did not know where my next meal would come from. I did not know where or if I would find shelter. I was not any where near as safe as those whose housing was stable. And frankly, although I put out many a resume, deep inside I knew that my executive dysfunction was likely to make me more of a liability than a help to anyone who hired me.

But it was more than that. A wrong answer on the street can get you killed!! With inhibition (ability to suppress the first response – part of executive dysfunction) compromised you may well let a wrong answer fly. With fluid reasoning, generative, and updating compromised I often missed buses (wrong day wrong time) and would have a very hard time solving the problem of what to do about that!! When someone asked me a question they were more likely to get an answer from what was in my long term memory rather than the current situation.

But once in a while things went well. And when they were not going well I would likely be the last to notice. Self monitoring is also affected.

So the seeming “inconsistencies” I do see in what jos wrote are likely his executive dysfunction expressing itself.

To be accusing a man of being deceptive without taking the time and effort to really know what his true situation is lacks proper diligence. It is not acceptable.

Very likely it is sloppy slander or libel. The people doing so have not been duly diligent and have no right to make a judgment.

[1] Executive dysfunction in OSA before and after treatment: a meta-analysis. Olaithe M, Bucks RS. Source: School of Psychology, University of Western Australia, Perth, Australia. Sleep. 2013 Sep 1;36(9):1297-305. doi: 10.5665/sleep.2950.

Todzo wrote:The people doing so have not been duly diligent and have no right to make a judgment.

Begging your pardon, but sending a brand new S9 to a Post Office box would not be "duly diligent".

If Hobo Joe would put some documentation on the board (like the results of his sleep studies), I'm sure there would be a number of people who would help.

Meanwhile, perfectly good used CPAP units can be had very cheaply. Why don't YOU send him one? You've got a job now and are extremely resourceful (which you remind everyone every other post).

BTW, once you've done that, please don't come back and tell the world of your righteousness. Rather, read Matt 6:1.

Thanks!

When someone asked me a question they were more likely to get an answer from what was in my long term memory rather than the current situation.

As one who is unfortunately an expert in executive function impairments due to being impaired in this area, that makes absolutely no sense since the OP didn't have to rely on this memory due to it all being on the computer. He never responded to the posts that asked reasonable questions such as applying for social security disability and other similar type questions.

He never seemed to make any attempt to provide specific information and kept responding in religious generalities. That definitely has nothing to do with executive function issues.

Those are the facts Todzo no matter how you want to spin it which I am sure you will since you always to have the last word.

49er

PS - I know I am guilty of prolonging this thread but I couldn't let the comments on executive function go by.

49er wrote:He never seemed to make any attempt to provide specific information and kept responding in religious generalities.

Naturally! Basic 419 Scam ("yeah, need a machine, how about some consumables, weeellllll, the CPAP don't work, how about a BiPAP, y'know, ASV would be better, BTW my brother is a prisoner in a Libyan jail, if we bail him out for $100,000 he'll share his $5 million in gold...).

In case anyone hasn't noticed, the OP is long gone, I guess he got his machine?

Sludge wrote:

Todzo wrote:The people doing so have not been duly diligent and have no right to make a judgment.

Begging your pardon, but sending a brand new S9 to a Post Office box would not be "duly diligent".

I absolutely agree with you that sending a new S9 to a Post Office box would not be “duly diligent” . As well I have suggested what I believe would be a set of good diligent steps to work with people over the Internet[1]. Many times in this thread[1].

To not be diligent to verify the claims of those over the Internet and simply give people what they asked for would likely be an irresponsible enablement of crime.

But all of this has brought to the forefront the need of those who work with people who have OSA to understand the executive dysfunction caused by OSA!

The executive functioning issues which come with OSA tend to destroy both the personal connections that a person has and his ability to fend for himself.

In 2006 I read a paper dealing with the cognitive deficits caused by OSA [2]. I wanted to understand what had happened to me and this started to explain it. Since then I have spent many hours reading about executive functioning as it relates to OSA.

I wanted to help some of the men I was staying with in transitional housing and so bought a pulse oximeter to help us to see if they had OSA. During my process of choosing those to offer the overnight use of the device I was not looking just for the usual physical characteristics that can be a tip off to the presence of OSA. I was looking specifically for a cognitive signature which I became able to recognize by both study of the OSA related executive functioning deficit issues as well as a lot of thought about how executive dysfunction was affecting my own life at that time. Indeed one that was chosen was of normal body weight.

All six studies that resulted showed very significant oxygen desaturations which is a likely indicator for the presence of OSA.

I believe that anyone who has done less than I would be unlikely to see the cognitive signature of OSA in another persons life.


[1]: Trust but verify.

Work with someone long distance – eyes, ears, nose, feet on the ground. You absolutely must find someone to vet the person in person!!

From my experience:

First choice – Salvation Army – best of the best no contest!!!

Second choice – Find a local mosque, synagogue, or church (or whatever) from your own familiarity and work with the local leadership and congregation.

Third (and distant) choice – local social worker government program connected.

First confirm the person (or people) you are working with independently – then let them vet the person face to face.

Truly there are people much closer to you that you should be helping!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The greatest “time of need” for the up North poor begins January 1. the Holidays are over so people forget them. But it is the coldest time of year, the missions are full, and there is little help. Want to help the poor. Sign up locally when you are most the needed. Jan to April. Go for it!!

[2]: (at least very similar to) BEEBE, DEAN W.; GOZAL, DAVID
"Obstructive sleep apnea and the prefrontal cortex: towards a comprehensive model linking nocturnal upper airway obstruction to daytime cognitive and behavioral deficits" Journal of Sleep Research, V.11, Is.1, Blackwell Science Ltd., SN-1365-2869, http://dx.doi.org/10.1046/j.1365-2869.2002.00289.x , DO-10.1046/j.1365-2869.2002.00289.x

Todzo wrote:executive function

Todzo wrote:executive function

Todzo wrote:executive function

Todzo wrote:executive function

Todzo wrote:executive function

Todzo wrote:executive function

OK, I'm sorry, but I'm really trying to understand where you're coming from, and maybe it's because I don't have any of that there EF stuff.

Anyway, you claim to have worked your way up to being a cook (and hey, that's great, a very valuable service cause like people have to eat), but isn't looking at "executive function" a little overkill? I mean, where's the "executive function"? That side of the burger's done, flip it over. Bell rings, take the fries out. You don't need EF for that, you need Pavlov (he's the guy that looked at EF in dogs. Turns out there wasn't any).

Further, (and IMO) despite your repeated references to, analysis of, self-proclaimed expert on, etc., the plight of the homeless, you really don't seem to have the SFI what you're talking about. Here's a list of the priorities of the homeless:

• Food
• Shelter
• Clothing

Now listen carefully:

That's it.

There's nothing else.

Certainly not an S9 CPAP (or I imagine he wanted an S9 APAP).

Any request for items other than the List would simply be sold, traded, etc. to secure items that are on the List.

Most important, in practice, drugs and/or alcohol usually are placed as priorities on the List, supplanting the Basic 3, and for those people, any discussion of "executive function" REALLY becomes a waste of time.

So while it's great that you're running around doing O2 sats in the shelters, those people aren't caring about oxygen levels, they're looking at the PulseOx and wondering if they can get a bottle of Mad Dog 20-20 for it.

Or looking to cut your kidneys out and sell them to the Transplant Team.

Have a Great Day!

Todzo... while I know your intentions are admirable, I wish you would stop telling people what YOU think they ought to do and get off your soap box. You have said the exact same thing over, and over, and over in at least 10 different threads. I get it already... but will continue to contribute to society my way, not YOURS.

ems wrote:Todzo... while I know your intentions are admirable, I wish you would stop telling people what YOU think they ought to do and get off your soap box. You have said the exact same thing over, and over, and over in at least 10 different threads. I get it already... but will continue to contribute to society my way, not YOURS.

+1 million ... Todzo MUST have the last word and he believes we are children not adults, that must be blasted with the same stories and info over and over and over.......................................... He thinks he is smarter than we are and that we are too dumb (or old) to look up relevant info for ourselves.

Nanwilson wrote: Todzo MUST have the last word

Well then since you know this, why not let him have the last word?
CN

CarpeNoctum wrote:

Nanwilson wrote: Todzo MUST have the last word

Well then since you know this, why not let him have the last word?
CN

+1

I think the reason this thread receives an average of some 400+ views a day now entering the third week is simply that the well documented executive dysfunction[1] that comes with OSA hinders those with OSA in a way that could indeed bring them to the homeless situation. They know inside that they are indeed “at risk”.

Executive dysfunction is a very important issue for all those with OSA whether they wish to deal with it or not.

[1] Executive dysfunction in OSA before and after treatment: a meta-analysis. Olaithe M, Bucks RS. Source: School of Psychology, University of Western Australia, Perth, Australia. Sleep. 2013 Sep 1;36(9):1297-305. doi: 10.5665/sleep.2950.

Note: The Journal sleep can be delivered by Kindle – The article mentioned has a lot of great references. A Google search on “sleep apnea executive functioning” or “sleep apnea executive dysfunction” or “sleep apnea quality of life” in Google Scholar or a good medical search engine will also produce a lot of great stuff. Happy Reading!!!