Anyone else prescribed CPAP without Apnia?

Hello... I'm new here, I just started using my prescribed CPAP a couple nights ago (with difficulty... but that is another topic). Unlike most (if not all) here, I do not have sleep apnia. Here's the scoop...

I'm 40 years old, and my entire life I have felt tired and run down. I feel sleepy way too much, no matter how much actual sleep I get. I used to not be able to drive more than 45 min without fighting sleep (used to have to pull over and take a quick nap alot on longer trips (2 hours). I'm much better now with the driving though and can generally keep awake, and when I can't, a Red Bull does the trick (coffee doesn't tho...).

Anyway, In the past few months the drowsyness started to get even worse, so I came in to see the doctor about it (I have before, but nothing ever came of it). I thought I might have Apnia based on my symptoms, and while he said it was unlikely, it was possible, so he had me do a sleep study. The results of that were that I had very few actual Apnia events, but I had a high number of respatory related sleep arousals (avg 52 an hour). They basically said I was likely getting very little deep sleep (odd that I consider myself a very deep sleeper). I would wake up completely every now and again, but he said that most times the arousals would not completely wake me up, but my muscles and brain activity would spike keeping out of any deeper sleep. I do snore very badly, and my wife told me (after I went in for the first study) that I do gasp for air sometimes in my sleep.

So here I am. The doc prescribed a Cpap to try for a while so I can see if it helps me feel better during the day (and to see if it fixes some very low hormone levels that could be related to not getting the proper sleep). I'm comitted to trying it at least a few months to see if it makes any difference. I went in for a second study with the CPAP and they settled on a pressure of 10 to keep me sleeping without any respatory weirdness.

I'm using a swift now, but am having trouble getting used to it (granted, its only my third night...) and I keep being awakened when air starts blowing out of my mouth. I have yet to keep it on more that 2.5 hours. Its also incredibly noisy (I sound like Darth Vader in a wind tunnel, and my poor wife has to sleep with a pillow over her ears). I want a Cflex, but couldn't get one (I'm seeing my doc tomorrow and will ask if he can change the Rx). I just ordered a Comfort Lite 2 in the hopes it would be a little quieter, and a chinstrap to try for the mouth thing. We'll see when they arrive tomorrow. and since my insurance is only covering half the cost, I'll likely purchace the machine of my choice online as renting a barebones machine thru the DME will end up costing me more after only a few months than buying a better one online.

So, the question is, how unusual is my case? Any semi educated guesses on whether or not CPAP will make a difference for me?

Thanks

-David

david:

others here are much more knowledgable than i am about this, but i think you may have misunderstood your doc. it sounds like it's not that you don't have apnea-- it sounds like you don't have a bad case.

i say this because your sleep test results sound like mine--except you had way more arousals than i did. my doc said i was borderline apnea with few apneas, a bunch of hypo apneas, but high alpha wave intrusion and no deep level sleep. also a bit of a technical narcolepsy problem because of the length of time i could sleep and the difficulty the sleep techs had in waking me and keeping me up. so lots of quantity sleep, not much quality sleep, which sounds like you thinking you're a deep sleeper when actually you're not. oh yes, and i snore a lot and it's loud and deep. so the doc said i did have apnea, but just not the number of apnea events that the insurance company uses to define apnea, and these other factors pushed me over the edge to get the insurance company to classify me as needing cpap. i think there's a medical definition of apnea and an insurance definition of apnea, and the medical is much broader. but yes, i barely fit the medical definition of apnea, but i think in a case like yours or mine, it's not worth quibbling about. 10 is a pretty high pressure for someone who supposedly doesn't have apnea - mine is 8, which they pushed up at my request, from 7.

if you're asking whether cpap can work for someone who supposedly doesn't have apnea, yes, it can. for two reasons. one is that i think that cpap as a relaxation device can help a lot of people who don't have apnea. my sleep tech said she does not have apnea but uses cpap every nite because of its relaxation effect on the body. secondly, you may have a kind of apnea, as i do, that just doesn't measure well on medically established measuring equipment, but that doesn't mean it's not there. you and i most likely do not face a possibility of choking or death because the apnea is not as intense, but it doesn't mean it's not as pervasive as for someone who has more apnea events than we do and requires a higher pressure.

so i hope that's been helpful.

caroline

dizzy wrote:I keep being awakened when air starts blowing out of my mouth.

If the chinstrap you plan to try doesn't control the mouth air leaks, you might need to do what many of us turn to... taping the lips shut.

You can click the link below to read lots of interesting discussions about that. Will give you an idea of how much interference mouth air leaks can cause in getting effective treatment. And the lengths some of us have gone to, to stop the mouth leaks.

Links to: Mouth leaks - Air Leaks - Tape - DIY Guard

I am new, sort of, to posting here, but this is my theory.

I believe that we replenish our endocrine hormones in those late stages of sleep. It was the sleep apnea that I believe caused a complete disfunction of my endocrine system. I pushed for them to test my adrenal, pituitary, and other glands and all glands showed up very low, the cortisol levels were less than one, with average ranges above 8. There is no specific endocrine disease that has both adrenal and pituitary as a deficiency, which is why I concluded that something was preventing them from replenishing each day. 142 arousals per hour seemed logical enough to me.
I was told that we make serotonin in the fourth stage of sleep. One that I rarely reach.

It is just a thought....

Peg

dizzy wrote:So, the question is, how unusual is my case? Any semi educated guesses on whether or not CPAP will make a difference for me?

David, I failed not one but two sleep studies, separated by about a dozen years, and I do have apnea. After failing my last sleep study, I started using an oximeter which showed a number of desaturations on occasion. This was enough for the sleep doc to write me a prescription. My machine then confirmed the apnea.

So, how rare is this? Beats me. Like the old adage about doctors burying their mistakes, I'm pretty sure there are some folks who fail their sleep studies and then go on to die a premature death because their apnea never got diagnosed. Nobody counts the bodies. Nobody ever knows.

Since you're wondering if you really have apnea, if I were you I'd get an APAP along with monitoring software so you can see the results. You might be surprised. If the APAP kicks up the pressure a lot, then you'll know for sure.

As for your pressure, sounds like you sleep doc just took a wild guess at a number. Another good reason for an APAP, especially if you're uncomfortable at your current pressure.

Yes, the CL2 is much quieter than the Swift. Keep your Swift though. I think the Swift is the more comfortable of the two, although I have been using the CL2 exclusively for the past few weeks.

As for mouth blow-outs, some of us quit doing that with time and practice. Rather than mouth taping, you might consider using poli-grip strips (I think I got the name right). There's a current thread about them and denture adhesives. The few folks who have used the strips say they work great to stop the blow-outs.

Regards,
Bill

NightHawkeye wrote: ...Since you're wondering if you really have apnea, if I were you I'd get an APAP along with monitoring software so you can see the results. You might be surprised. If the APAP kicks up the pressure a lot, then you'll know for sure.

As for your pressure, sounds like you sleep doc just took a wild guess at a number. Another good reason for an APAP, especially if you're uncomfortable at your current pressure....

Well... I'm not really wondering. I think I have a very mild case. Sleep study recorded 2 events the whole night with niether of those showing a signifigant oxygen drop, but the Sleep tech said I could very well be starting to develop Apnia and it could be starting to get worse. But 52 arousals an hour (Apnia related or not) can't be good. But I don't know how they can get an accurate assessment in just a single study, hooked up to more wires than I have behind my entertainment center, in a strage place, and a completely different time than when I normally sleep.

The Sleep tech said he had a hard time getting the pressure set right because I would always wake up when he tried to turn the pressure up. He said I finally stopped having arousals at a pressure of 10. He also mentioned that I developed a mouth leak the last 10 min before they woke me up, and that it may or may not be a problem for me. We'll see...

I do plan on getting an APAP machine and software (likely the Remstar auto C-flex)... but I read that unit does not auto adjust pressure for snores, which could be a problem for me... but the Resmed unit (which does) does not alow the exhale relief when in auto mode... also a problem.

Thanks

-David

rested gal wrote:If the chinstrap you plan to try doesn't control the mouth air leaks, you might need to do what many of us turn to... taping the lips shut.

You can click the link below to read lots of interesting discussions about that. Will give you an idea of how much interference mouth air leaks can cause in getting effective treatment. And the lengths some of us have gone to, to stop the mouth leaks.

Thanks for the info. I really can't see myself taping my nouth shut. I'll try different full face masks before I resort to tape... my nose has a nasty habit of clogging up, but usually just one nostril at a time. Sealing my mouth scares me, to be perfectly honest...

-David

I logged in before I made the two replies above. I don't know why it says Guest...

??

-David

if Red Bull helps, then you should take a vitamin B-12 supplement, because Red Bull contains high concentrations of the B vitamins, it is how it works.

But many B vitamins are difficult to absorb into the bloodstream for an effective dose, but you could try a subliminal version which absorbs directly into the bloodstream by melting under the tongue vs going through the digestive system.

One such version is from Wonderlabs.com, but there are many others. The version from Wonderlabs also contains balanced levels of B6 and Folic Acid.

http://www.wonderlabs.com/sublingual-b12/index.html

You could also ask your doctor to give you a simple B-12 shot which is the most effective.

David,

In order to lower the loud noise from the Swift, we inserted a 1" x 2" piece of nylon net into the tube of the Swift by taking the cap off of the end which can very easily be removed for washing &/or replacing. Any sizes of nylon net larger than that did not allow for proper inhalation & exhalation. Be sure to remove the foam before inserting the nylon net. This was tested at pressures of 7 cm through 12 cm. You can purchase nylon net at a fabric store or in the fabric section at a Walmart.

PadACheeks from Karen Moore keep the straps from riding up in the back and prevent or lessen marks on the face.

Hope these tips will help you enjoy the Swift.

Guest wrote:my nose has a nasty habit of clogging up, but usually just one nostril at a time.
-David

Same for me. But I tape every night. As long as a person can breathe through one nostril or the other (and it can alternate) cpap treatment works. And tape works. I used Full Face masks for over six months before I got up the nerve to put tape over my mouth. Then I could use the more comfortable (for me) nasal pillows masks with no problem. Have been taping (and breathing through one nostril or the other...lol) almost every night for over two years now.