Sick of the Machine - Need a Cause, Need a Cure

Todzo wrote:
I think the causes of OSA can be found in our food supply (e.g. [2,3]), our violent media, pollution, short and non-circadian sleep, high stress low compassion living, too little sunlight, and an inactive lifestyle.
.

Ok then why does my father not have OSA? He survived the war as teenage slave labour to the Nazis (you can't get much more violent without dying), worked shift work for many years, never goes in the sun because he burns, has avoided exercise since he walked back to the Netherlands from Poland, eats mostly meat & potatoes and bread and loves war movies. He turned 86 last week.

BlackSpinner wrote:

Todzo wrote:
I think the causes of OSA can be found in our food supply (e.g. [2,3]), our violent media, pollution, short and non-circadian sleep, high stress low compassion living, too little sunlight, and an inactive lifestyle.
.

Ok then why does my father not have OSA? He survived the war as teenage slave labour to the Nazis (you can't get much more violent without dying), worked shift work for many years, never goes in the sun because he burns, has avoided exercise since he walked back to the Netherlands from Poland, eats mostly meat & potatoes and bread and loves war movies. He turned 86 last week.

when was his last sleep study?

BlackSpinner wrote:

Todzo wrote:\

I think the causes of OSA can be found in our food supply (e.g. [2,3]), our violent media, pollution, short and non-circadian sleep, high stress low compassion living, too little sunlight, and an inactive lifestyle.
.

Ok then why does my father not have OSA? He survived the war as teenage slave labour to the Nazis (you can't get much more violent without dying), worked shift work for many years, never goes in the sun because he burns, has avoided exercise since he walked back to the Netherlands from Poland, eats mostly meat & potatoes and bread and loves war movies. He turned 86 last week.

Because despite what doctors/science try to tell us, we are all different. Some people die from lung cancer at 52 (my mom) from smoking, and some eat bacon and eggs, meat, sweets, etc. and live until two months shy of their 100th b'day... my uncle. My dad did the same (plus loved scotch) and lived to 93. My MIL had a massive heart attack in her sixties and then lived to 95... eating whatever she wanted. If more money was spent on understanding the whys of all this (instead of war) we would have a much different society.

BlackSpinner wrote:

Todzo wrote:
I think the causes of OSA can be found in our food supply (e.g. [2,3]), our violent media, pollution, short and non-circadian sleep, high stress low compassion living, too little sunlight, and an inactive lifestyle.
.

Ok then why does my father not have OSA? He survived the war as teenage slave labour to the Nazis (you can't get much more violent without dying), worked shift work for many years, never goes in the sun because he burns, has avoided exercise since he walked back to the Netherlands from Poland, eats mostly meat & potatoes and bread and loves war movies. He turned 86 last week.

he had a better food supply during his growing up years

Todzo wrote: he had a better food supply during his growing up years

You are joking, right?
He was a kid during the depression and his father had TB so they were the poorest of the poor. He spent his teenage years in the war surviving of scraps of food and cabbage water called soup.

BlackSpinner wrote:

Todzo wrote: he had a better food supply during his growing up years

You are joking, right?
He was a kid during the depression and his father had TB so they were the poorest of the poor. He spent his teenage years in the war surviving of scraps of food and cabbage water called soup.

Your father had over 40 years of a food supply untainted by our modern production ways

Todzo wrote:

BlackSpinner wrote:

Todzo wrote: he had a better food supply during his growing up years

You are joking, right?
He was a kid during the depression and his father had TB so they were the poorest of the poor. He spent his teenage years in the war surviving of scraps of food and cabbage water called soup.

Your father had over 40 years of a food supply untainted by our modern production ways

BlackSpinner wrote:

Todzo wrote:
I think the causes of OSA can be found in our food supply (e.g. [2,3]), our violent media, pollution, short and non-circadian sleep, high stress low compassion living, too little sunlight, and an inactive lifestyle.
.

Ok then why does my father not have OSA? He survived the war as teenage slave labour to the Nazis (you can't get much more violent without dying), worked shift work for many years, never goes in the sun because he burns, has avoided exercise since he walked back to the Netherlands from Poland, eats mostly meat & potatoes and bread and loves war movies. He turned 86 last week.

"walked back to the Netherlands from Poland" - apparently did have an active lifestyle at one time

Todzo wrote:

BlackSpinner wrote:

Todzo wrote:
I think the causes of OSA can be found in our food supply (e.g. [2,3]), our violent media, pollution, short and non-circadian sleep, high stress low compassion living, too little sunlight, and an inactive lifestyle.
.

Ok then why does my father not have OSA? He survived the war as teenage slave labour to the Nazis (you can't get much more violent without dying), worked shift work for many years, never goes in the sun because he burns, has avoided exercise since he walked back to the Netherlands from Poland, eats mostly meat & potatoes and bread and loves war movies. He turned 86 last week.

"walked back to the Netherlands from Poland" - apparently did have an active lifestyle at one time

This is getting insulting.

Todzo wrote:Well I can say that using a combination of constantly watched CPAP therapy (look at data a couple of times a week – AHI under 2), pulse oximeter guided eucapnic breathing, EERS[1] when necessary, better diet (worked with professional dietitian for over two years – learning how to feed microbiome – away from GMOs and rBHTs), moving to a much less stress much better sun light city, moving toward an active lifestyle, and viewing less violent media my need for CPAP pressure is half of what it was two years ago.

I think the causes of OSA can be found in our food supply (e.g. [2,3]), our violent media, pollution, short and non-circadian sleep, high stress low compassion living, too little sunlight, and an inactive lifestyle.

[1]: Gilmartin G, McGeehan B, Vigneault K, Daly RW, Manento M, Weiss JW, Thomas RJ.
Treatment of positive airway pressure treatment-associated respiratory instability with enhanced expiratory rebreathing space (EERS).
Source: J Clin Sleep Med. 2010 Dec 15;6(6):529-38. Division of Pulmonary, Critical Care and Sleep Medicine, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Boston, MA, USA.
Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21206741

[2]: http://action.responsibletechnology.org ... _KEY=11129

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food,_Inc.

Come on, people, he's a nutjob. Quit feeding his ego and encouraging him to spread his quackery to unsophisticated newbies who might follow his advice instead of getting effective treatment for apnea.

We understand why apnea happens, by and large. We don't always understand why one particular person gets it and another doesn't. We don't understand that about many diseases.

Back to the original poster, anyone who talks about "allopathic" medicine is simply someone who believes in quackery. The definition of "allopathic" medicine is "anything other than quackery." Note that I'm not saying I believe our "western" medical system is always right, or that it isn't corrupt. Or that you don't need to take charge of your own medical treatment.

Even if you believe our medical system is corrupt and is screwing us all over to benefit the pharmaceutical companies, the insurance companies, the politicians, the hospital megacorps, and the Daughters of Currency, that doesn't mean the guy selling is miracle all natural herbal patent medicine is selling you something that actually works, or isn't actively dangerous.

One thing for which we have to thank modern medicine is that many more people are living much longer than they were "designed" to.
This includes people with apnea, and dozens of other disorders. Genetically, we are changing, maybe not always for the better,
but whatever we become, we either accept it, or adopt some of the "values" and practices of ancient Troy.
I personally would find that barbaric!

Todzo wrote:

BlackSpinner wrote:

Todzo wrote: he had a better food supply during his growing up years

You are joking, right?
He was a kid during the depression and his father had TB so they were the poorest of the poor. He spent his teenage years in the war surviving of scraps of food and cabbage water called soup.

Your father had over 40 years of a food supply untainted by our modern production ways

Todzo wrote:"walked back to the Netherlands from Poland" - apparently did have an active lifestyle at one time

Really Todzo? Did you leave your brains in the toilet and flushed them?

DocWeezy wrote: But I still have OSA....although I am one of those with a doc that says my face/jaw/throat structure was made for apnea.

My sleep Doc said the same thing. She said the opening at the back of my throat is quite narrow. This () instead of this ( ).

A cure would be great, but, at least for me, the treatment (granted, OSA in my case) is pretty simple, and if medical research dollars had to be focused, I'd rather they focus on a cure for cancer. Too many people I know have succumbed to that terrible scourge.

John

JohnO wrote:

DocWeezy wrote: But I still have OSA....although I am one of those with a doc that says my face/jaw/throat structure was made for apnea.

My sleep Doc said the same thing. She said the opening at the back of my throat is quite narrow. This () instead of this ( ).

A cure would be great, but, at least for me, the treatment (granted, OSA in my case) is pretty simple, and if medical research dollars had to be focused, I'd rather they focus on a cure for cancer. Too many people I know have succumbed to that terrible scourge.

John

The fact that less pressure keeps my airway open is testamony to the effectiveness of what I am doing for me. If you look in the references, cancer is mentioned.

So I mention again:

Well I can say that using a combination of constantly watched CPAP therapy (look at data a couple of times a week – AHI under 2), pulse oximeter guided eucapnic breathing, EERS[1] when necessary, better diet (worked with professional dietitian for over two years – learning how to feed microbiome – away from GMOs and rBHTs), moving to a much less stress much better sun light city, moving toward an active lifestyle, and viewing less violent media my need for CPAP pressure is half of what it was two years ago.

I think the causes of OSA can be found in our food supply (e.g. [2,3]), our violent media, pollution, short and non-circadian sleep, high stress low compassion living, too little sunlight, and an inactive lifestyle.

[1]: Gilmartin G, McGeehan B, Vigneault K, Daly RW, Manento M, Weiss JW, Thomas RJ.
Treatment of positive airway pressure treatment-associated respiratory instability with enhanced expiratory rebreathing space (EERS).
Source: J Clin Sleep Med. 2010 Dec 15;6(6):529-38. Division of Pulmonary, Critical Care and Sleep Medicine, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Boston, MA, USA.
Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21206741

[2]: http://action.responsibletechnology.org ... _KEY=11129

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food,_Inc .

BlackSpinner wrote:

Todzo wrote:
I think the causes of OSA can be found in our food supply (e.g. [2,3]), our violent media, pollution, short and non-circadian sleep, high stress low compassion living, too little sunlight, and an inactive lifestyle.
.

Ok then why does my father not have OSA? He survived the war as teenage slave labour to the Nazis (you can't get much more violent without dying), worked shift work for many years, never goes in the sun because he burns, has avoided exercise since he walked back to the Netherlands from Poland, eats mostly meat & potatoes and bread and loves war movies. He turned 86 last week.

I agree with BlackSpinner that it's not all due to environment. OSA, like most health issues, stems from a combination of inherited traits, environmental influences (including nutritional deficiency) during formative years, persistent environmental and habitual influences continuing past the formative years and probably some things we don't know. I know of at least two people who are tall, skinny, young, still quite healthy and don't snore who have terrible sleep apnea and very high pressures. Likewise I know a lot of obese people who have no sleep apnea whatsoever.

I'm curious though... Is it not true that doctors keep telling those of us who have sleep apnea that better diet, more exercise and losing weight should reduce our AHI, perhaps rendering CPAP unnecessary at some point for some people? Are there studies that show examples of people losing enough weight to stop using CPAP and thrive? Does anyone on this forum know someone who was diagnosed with SA, used the machine, lost weight, got retested in a sleep study and was then deemed well-oxygenated enough not to need CPAP?