transport-sleep-apnea-scam

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri May 31, 2013 4:05 pm

Trudger wrote:Hello,

I am the person who you are all talking about on this posting issue about my comments of this being a scam. Here is what I have to say about it:

First, I've been a driver for 8 years, mostly OTR and have a perfect safety record. Second, I really enjoyed working for Marten Transport up until the time that they had me take the forced sleep study and subsequent treatment. I am not a whiner, and have always stood up for driver's rights, which is something we don't check at the door just because we go to work for someone.

When I had my orientation DOT medical exam, performed by a physician's assistant, not a M D, that the company went through, I was incorrectly told my neck size was 18 inches, which meant I had to take the forced sleep study, however, this wasn't brought up to me until well after a month that I had been driving for them, loving the company. I told them I didn't choose to participate in their program, at which point they told me it was mandatory or I would be terminated. I advised them there was NO regulation in place that made forced testing mandatory, only PROPOSSED regulations with FMCSA (which we doubt will pass) regarding the 17 inch or greater for men and 15 inch or greater neck size for women. This doesn't address any person with severe sleep apnea UNDER those sizes, and is discriminatory with NO legal backing at this time.

I took the forced study, vs. getting fired. The sales rep for the sleep study told me I had slight-moderate apnea and would HAVE to use a machine. I objected and said I would undergo treatment if it was needed, under a doctor's care and prescription, and would more than likely opt for a different form of treatment. They told me I had no choice and would have to use their MONITORED machine (via a device similar to an ankle bracelet for house arrest) or I would be terminated. I researched on the net and found several places, including the MAYO CLINIC, that had very strong concerns about side effects and health risks (none of which were ever told to me by a doctor, which is required by law). To keep my job, I took the machine, under duress, and told them they would have to supply a medical professional to show me how to safely use the machine, set the correct air pressure for ME, and answer my questions. They sent me from Oregon to Georgia, where they had a MEDICAL ASSISTANT to show me. The first night of use, I used it for an hour getting used to it. The next night, no use as I needed sleep for early am delivery (we could have 25% non use and be in compliance. The next night, 3.6 hours of use, all while awake. No, I wasn't trying to cheat the system, I just wasn't comfortable sleeping with it as it HAD serious complaints from medical professionals. It's a machine, it can have a glitch. Didn't want to die in sleep or develop severe health issues due to it. MANY drivers at the company I spoke to about it complained of nose bleeds, insomnia, headaches...and would use the 4 monitored hours awake, then take the mask off and get some rest. However, that reduces a driver's sleep by 1/2 on the 10 hour down time, with driving up to 11 hours the next day. TOO dangerous with sleep deprivation.

Here is the real scam. After being terminated for not complying with their illegal program, I went to a REAL doctor, got measured and tested and low and behold...my neck size is ONLY 16 1/2, not 18 like Marten's "doctor" claimed. The program needs to be VOLUNTARY for those who want it, NOT forced and mandatory. We need sleep, not sleep deprivation being on the highways with you and your loved ones. No, I'm not a jerk, moron or anything else you guys have thrown at me, I'm just a driver supporting his family and trying to do so safely when I'm driving that 80,000 lb missile next to your family.

I vote "Moron".
All that crap you posted here and on the initially linked forum clearly indicates you're in denial.
It sounds like you DO have (mild - moderate) Sleep Apnea and NEED to use a machine.
I have friends who have been OTR drivers and DID use their machines with no problems (one recently retired in his 70's).
Neck size isn't a conclusive determination (including snoring), but is just another clue to a possibility that it may exist and justifies a sleep study.
When you work for someone else, you follow THEIR rules.
Physicians Assistants are the closest thing to an "MD" and they CAN write prescriptions. Get used to them because I think they're going to be more prominent in the new "healthcare frontier".
You consistently contradict yourself in your post.
You need to be off the road.

Den

.

NateS · Post by **NateS** » Fri May 31, 2013 9:31 pm

Trudger wrote:Hello,

I am the person who you are all talking about on this posting issue about my comments of this being a scam. Here is what I have to say about it:

… I am not a whiner, and have always stood up for driver's rights, which is something we don't check at the door just because we go to work for someone.

You keep talking vaguely about these "rights" that drivers have. Why don't you be specific and tells us exactly what these rights are that you think drivers have, and where we can find them and read about them. As far as I know, almost all states in the USA provide for "employment at will" meaning that, except for prohibitions against defined categories of discrimination, employers can hire us and fire us whenever they choose to do so, with or without a reason. Unless you are talking about union contracts, which I doubt, where do you get these "drivers rights'? And do they include a right to drive with untreated sleep apnea and a right to fall asleep on the road and kill the occupants of other vehicles with your unmanned missile?

I told them I didn't choose to participate in their program, at which point they told me it was mandatory or I would be terminated.

See what I mean?

I wasn't trying to cheat the system, I just wasn't comfortable sleeping with it … MANY drivers at the company I spoke to about it … would use the 4 monitored hours awake, then take the mask off and get some rest.

So you cheated because many others cheated and that makes it okay? Most of us learned about the consequences of that logic in the first grade.

I'm not a jerk, moron or anything else you guys have thrown at me, I'm just a driver supporting his family and trying to do so safely when I'm driving that 80,000 lb missile next to your family.

But you can't do so safely if you are driving with untreated sleep apnea, which means that the rest of us don't want you driving an 80,000 lb missile next to our family; and we don't want trucking companies putting drivers out on the road who are driving with untreated sleep apnea That's the whole point! And you owe it to your own family too, since they presumably love you and want to keep you around in one piece and alive, and capable of being able to continue supporting them as you do now.

Sorry, but you need to provide yourself with the prescribed treatment necessary to get your sleep apnea fully under control and prove you are doing so consistently without cheating, or find another line of employment.

Nate

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Fri May 31, 2013 9:47 pm

One of the big truisms of sleep deprivation is that sleep deprived people don't recognize the state they are in and just how incapacitated they are.

Sleep deprived people are worse then legally drunk because most people know they have drunk alcohol and are aware of the effects. Sleep deprived people happily bomb schools and hospitals - OR - drive trucks, thinking they are being their normal rational selves.

Todzo · Post by **Todzo** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:42 am

Trudger wrote:Hello,

I am the person who you are all talking about on this posting issue about my comments of this being a scam.

Hi Trudger!

Reading your whole post I tend to think you may be who you say you are. Welcome to the Wild Wild Web!

Trudger wrote:Here is what I have to say about it:

First, I've been a driver for 8 years, mostly OTR and have a perfect safety record. Second, I really enjoyed working for Marten Transport up until the time that they had me take the forced sleep study and subsequent treatment. I am not a whiner, and have always stood up for driver's rights, which is something we don't check at the door just because we go to work for someone.

When I had my orientation DOT medical exam, performed by a physician's assistant, not a M.D., that the company went through, I was incorrectly told my neck size was 18 inches, which meant I had to take the forced sleep study, however, this wasn't brought up to me until well after a month that I had been driving for them, loving the company. I told them I didn't choose to participate in their program, at which point they told me it was mandatory or I would be terminated. I advised them there was NO regulation in place that made forced testing mandatory, only PROPOSSED regulations with FMCSA (which we doubt will pass) regarding the 17 inch or greater for men and 15 inch or greater neck size for women. This doesn't address any person with severe sleep apnea UNDER those sizes, and is discriminatory with NO legal backing at this time.

The trucking company has a very real issue to deal with here. If there is an accident they are the ones with the big pockets and so are the ones most at risk from a legal and monetary standpoint. Sleep Apnea is known to be at very high levels with truck drivers and the demands of the job are already physically rigorous from a fatigue standpoint. Sleep Apnea, then, represents a very real business risk that must be managed for the business to survive.

As well as all of that, there might actually be a beating human heart in the managers of the company as well concerned about the driver’s health (and his or her possible loss of life) not to mention the health and loss of life risk of those a truck in motion may harm!!!!!!!
So they bring in the actuaries to find ways to manage risk. The actuaries and their consultants see that neck size and BMI have real numbers associated with risk – so – that is why you see them used to manage risk.

Trudger wrote:I took the forced study, vs. getting fired. The sales rep for the sleep study told me I had slight-moderate apnea and would HAVE to use a machine. I objected and said I would undergo treatment if it was needed, under a doctor's care and prescription, and would more than likely opt for a different form of treatment. They told me I had no choice and would have to use their MONITORED machine (via a device similar to an ankle bracelet for house arrest) or I would be terminated. I researched on the net and found several places, including the MAYO CLINIC, that had very strong concerns about side effects and health risks (none of which were ever told to me by a doctor, which is required by law). To keep my job, I took the machine, under duress, and told them they would have to supply a medical professional to show me how to safely use the machine, set the correct air pressure for ME, and answer my questions. They sent me from Oregon to Georgia, where they had a MEDICAL ASSISTANT to show me. The first night of use, I used it for an hour getting used to it. The next night, no use as I needed sleep for early am delivery (we could have 25% non use and be in compliance. The next night, 3.6 hours of use, all while awake. No, I wasn't trying to cheat the system, I just wasn't comfortable sleeping with it as it HAD serious complaints from medical professionals. It's a machine, it can have a glitch. Didn't want to die in sleep or develop severe health issues due to it. MANY drivers at the company I spoke to about it complained of nose bleeds, insomnia, headaches...and would use the 4 monitored hours awake, then take the mask off and get some rest. However, that reduces a driver's sleep by 1/2 on the 10 hour down time, with driving up to 11 hours the next day. TOO dangerous with sleep deprivation.

Here is the real scam. After being terminated for not complying with their illegal program, I went to a REAL doctor, got measured and tested and low and behold...my neck size is ONLY 16 1/2, not 18 like Marten's "doctor" claimed. The program needs to be VOLUNTARY for those who want it, NOT forced and mandatory. We need sleep, not sleep deprivation being on the highways with you and your loved ones. No, I'm not a jerk, moron or anything else you guys have thrown at me, I'm just a driver supporting his family and trying to do so safely when I'm driving that 80,000 lb missile next to your family.

I really do feel a lot of compassion for you and your fellow drivers. The real scam here is that the medical community calls CPAP the “golden standard” treatment!! The truth is that it is actually a failure most of the time. We simply do not have a good answer for those with Sleep Apnea.

That said I voluntarily gave up my license to drive because I knew I could not maintain vigilance as indicated by falling from my bicycle on a sunny windless day. I since have learned to manage my own therapy much better. If I stay up on the bicycle for six months and the therapy looks good and I have other indications that I am well treated and not a risk on the road – well – probably I will drive again.

But if a person is found to have moderate apnea and no good treatment can be found for them I really do believe truck driving is not for them as it is too much of a risk to them and us. No one has the right to risk our lives and property in that way. No one.

May we all find safe and secure income!!

Todzo

mgaggie · Post by **mgaggie** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:15 am

Trudger what are the serious side effects and health risks of using a cpap machine?

Todzo · Post by **Todzo** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:43 am

mgaggie wrote:Trudger what are the serious side effects and health risks of using a cpap machine?

I wonder if he will mention hypocapnic episodes.

49er · Post by **49er** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:34 am

Ok, what am I missing? A sales rep diagnosed Trudger with sleep apnea and you all are accepting that diagnosis from behind a computer screen without any reservation whatsoever? If this same sales rep had said that Trudger didn't have apnea, in my opinion, you would be calling this person a quack and urging him to get a 2nd opinion. You can't have it both ways.

If there can be misdiagnoses of apnea by trained medical professionals, I would be personally suspicious of an apnea diagnosis by sales rep who has every incentive to diagnose apnea. And again if this was a true safety issue, Trudger's company and other ones would be implementing a complete overall of policies that would enable drivers to get their rest without financial penalty.

Den - Why is it necessary to call someone a moron because you disagree with what they have posted? I thought you were better than that.

49er

49er · Post by **49er** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:44 am

Trudger,

What did the doctor you saw say about your apnea diagnosis?

49er

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:52 am

Trudger is gone.
The truth is a light bulb switching on; as the cockroaches scurry under the sofa.

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:04 am

49er wrote:Ok, what am I missing? A sales rep diagnosed Trudger with sleep apnea and you all are accepting that diagnosis from behind a computer screen without any reservation whatsoever? If this same sales rep had said that Trudger didn't have apnea, in my opinion, you would be calling this person a quack and urging him to get a 2nd opinion. You can't have it both ways.

If there can be misdiagnoses of apnea by trained medical professionals, I would be personally suspicious of an apnea diagnosis by sales rep who has every incentive to diagnose apnea. And again if this was a true safety issue, Trudger's company and other ones would be implementing a complete overall of policies that would enable drivers to get their rest without financial penalty.

Den - Why is it necessary to call someone a moron because you disagree with what they have posted? I thought you were better than that.

49er

Or that is what this sleep deprived person said. He wouldn't know a sales rep from an RT if he tripped over one in his bed.

49er · Post by **49er** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:15 am

BlackSpinner wrote:
49er wrote:Ok, what am I missing? A sales rep diagnosed Trudger with sleep apnea and you all are accepting that diagnosis from behind a computer screen without any reservation whatsoever? If this same sales rep had said that Trudger didn't have apnea, in my opinion, you would be calling this person a quack and urging him to get a 2nd opinion. You can't have it both ways.

If there can be misdiagnoses of apnea by trained medical professionals, I would be personally suspicious of an apnea diagnosis by sales rep who has every incentive to diagnose apnea. And again if this was a true safety issue, Trudger's company and other ones would be implementing a complete overall of policies that would enable drivers to get their rest without financial penalty.

Den - Why is it necessary to call someone a moron because you disagree with what they have posted? I thought you were better than that.

49er

Or that is what this sleep deprived person said. He wouldn't know a sales rep from an RT if he tripped over one in his bed.

Actually Black Spinner, the terms, sales rep and medical professional aren't mutually exclusive in the sleep apnea world.

49er

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:30 am

I was soured on chiropractors forever when I heard a student mention that he had to take a marketing class.
I went with my husband to a chiropractor, and the entire visit was a sales pitch.
(He never went back, as he noticed it, too.)

49er · Post by **49er** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:43 am

chunkyfrog wrote:I was soured on chiropractors forever when I heard a student mention that he had to take a marketing class.
I went with my husband to a chiropractor, and the entire visit was a sales pitch.
(He never went back, as he noticed it, too.)

Well, I am sure doctors take marketing classes also as it is necessary if they want their practices to survive.

I know a local chiropractor who was awesome. A co-worker raved about her and said she was very careful to not overstep her boundaries.

And even though I never was a patient of hers, she recommended three medical professionals that I didn't follow up on for various reasons. My fault, not hers.

Anyway, I don't think you can stereotype any professional. While I don't agree with Chris Kresser, who is a chiropractor, on everything, I find that alot of his advice makes alot of sense. He actually seems to read what the studies say instead of having pre conceived agendas which many mainstream and alternative professionals have in my opinion.

49er

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:36 am

chunkyfrog wrote:I was soured on chiropractors forever when I heard a student mention that he had to take a marketing class.
I went with my husband to a chiropractor, and the entire visit was a sales pitch.
(He never went back, as he noticed it, too.)

So do massage therapists and other medical people who need to make a living selling their services. Besides learning how to market ones self one learns what one can and can not put in adds as well as simple business things like accounting and taxes and disclaimers.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:55 am

The Chiro's sales pitch was so high pressure, it made my skin crawl.
I have been in retail sales; and this was the stuff of used cars, vacuum cleaners, and fire alarms.
Just plain creepy! Not professional at all. Even optometrists are more subtle.

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