Pugsy's Pointers...SleepyHead/OSCAR Tutorial and TX Hints

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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joshelmintz
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Re: Pugsy's Pointers...SleepyHead Tutorial...data understanding

Post by joshelmintz » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:59 pm

Hey Pugsy long time no talk! Quick question, I downloaded and installed SleepyHead just as it says per your instructions but nothing happens. Is this compatible with the respironics machines? I do know they run off Encore, but that is sort of pricey for my budget right now. They had a freeware version called oncore and I tried it with no luck either. Right now to get my readings I have to go to the DME which is bad but good since I am still having issues.

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Re: Pugsy's Pointers...SleepyHead Tutorial...data understanding

Post by Pugsy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:25 pm

joshelmintz wrote:Hey Pugsy long time no talk! Quick question, I downloaded and installed SleepyHead just as it says per your instructions but nothing happens. Is this compatible with the respironics machines? I do know they run off Encore, but that is sort of pricey for my budget right now
SleepyHead is hit or miss as far as compatibility with those ASV model machines.
Check your private message box please. I sent you some information on something that should work and it's free.

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Re: Pugsy's Pointers...SleepyHead Tutorial...data understanding

Post by hueyville » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:59 am

After lurking about here for a while I have decided to upgrade my pulse oximeter to a mode that works with sleepyhead. My new sleep doc has been very happy with the data I am providing him through both sleepyhead and Respironics Encore Viewer 2.1. I was using the Respironics software first as I had not yet gone over to the dark side of apnea treatment. Since I saw a need for oximeter info and blood pressure I bought a couple of units locally when my only goal was being abe to tether them to a computer. Bother were cheap but with the software provided and a little work building an Excel spreadsheet I was able to record my data each night but not able to sync it with my Resperonics information. Then once I found this discussion board and started using sleepyhead I became sure that having all the data on one report with the time properly in sync would be better.

Thus I started researching and had about decided on a Conec 50IW would be the easy way to go since their was so much support for this series of device out there. Then I hit a dilemma. A doctor friend is upgrading all his patient monitors and offered to pass a couple of his serviceable older units to me. They do SP02, blood pressure (NIBP), pulse, temperature, EKG and more. Also looked on eBay and found a gazillion patient monitors. I know writing software like this in which it is nothing but a labor of love as you give it away, compatibility for patient monitors would really add a significant amount of information to the reports.
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Re: Pugsy's Pointers...SleepyHead Tutorial...data understanding

Post by wacyone » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:48 pm

Several Questions tonight. My wife just started her therapy July 18, 2013. I found SleepyHead software and have been monitoring her with that program. Everything had been going well until several days ago when the AHI report stopped showing in the overview choice. I checked preferences and the AHI button is checked.Can anyone shed any light on what I need to do?

Second question. I have been on Auto SV for over 4 years now. I have been using Encore Viewer 1.0 to follow myself. Would it make sense to get Encore Viewer 2.1 to follow her?

Thanks
Wes

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Re: Pugsy's Pointers...SleepyHead Tutorial...data understanding

Post by Pugsy » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:38 pm

Not sure what happened to SleepyHead.
What version are you using? Windows or Mac?
If the Windows version what version and build date?
I think I might uninstall SleepyHead and then make sure I got the latest version and see if Overview AHI shows up like it is supposed to.
You can uninstall it and not lose prior data though because the old data is stored in a folder in MyDocuments that is untouched by an uninstall. If that doesn't work then maybe create a new thread on the main body of the forum for ideas and Mark (who wrote SleepyHead) could chime in maybe to offer ideas. You will get more ideas with a thread of your own.

Regarding using Encore...I will send you a private message in a little bit with an idea for you.

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Re: Pugsy's Pointers...SleepyHead Tutorial...data understanding

Post by caffeinatedcfo » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:14 pm

Respiratory Rate - if nice and steady pattern I'm guessing this means I'm peacefully sleeping. Large uneven spikes I'm guessing I'm awake? Or running from Zombies?

Any thoughts Pugsy?

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Re: Pugsy's Pointers...SleepyHead Tutorial...data understanding

Post by Pugsy » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:13 pm

caffeinatedcfo wrote:Respiratory Rate - if nice and steady pattern I'm guessing this means I'm peacefully sleeping. Large uneven spikes I'm guessing I'm awake? Or running from Zombies?
Yeah, pretty much that.
Either awake or having some sort of minor arousal/awakening from sleep that we don't remember.
Also REM stage sleep and yes...running from zombies or any dream where a person would normally have an increased respiratory and/or pulse rate. Could also be a nice gentle calm dream and nothing exciting at all going on with the rates.

Of course if you see a truckload of apnea events of some sort....that's also a possible cause. Though I just looked back at a report from the other night where I had 14 OAs between 3:21 and 3:34 I seem to have more of a drop in respiration rate than an increase.
I am pretty sure REM stage sleep due to the time frame and my history of OSA being so much worse in REM sleep.
I wouldn't have thought that I would have any decreases in that time frame based on the OAs but it went up and down and never any higher that I happened to have at other times. Bounced around between 9 and 17 with a good bit close to 9...which surprises me.

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Re: Pugsy's Pointers...SH Tutorial: Snoring

Post by robysue » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:06 pm

Pugsy has asked me to add this post about the SleepyHead snore data to this thread since it's a topic that sometimes comes up from newbies and it frequently causes confusion.

Please note the following: The way snores are recorded on the Resmed S9 machines is very different than the way it is recorded on the PR System One machines. This post only applies to the snore data recorded by the PR System One machines and how that data is reported in both Sleepy Head and in Encore.

All about Snoring Data on the PR System One Machines

There's no official guide to how to interpret the Snoring information from the PR System One as it is reported in either SleepyHead or Encore. In looking at Encore numbers, the assumption is that the higher the so-called "VSI" number is, the more serious the snoring is. But exactly how large that number needs to be before it's troublesome is not known. And for reporting snoring in SleepyHead, JediMark had to back engineer the snoring data from the PR machines and the information on why Encore presents the snoring data the way it chooses to present it is pretty scarce ....

And when you start analyzing the raw snoring data the decisions that Encore makes on how to present the snoring data just seem plain bizarre from a statistical point of view. (More on that later.)

Once JediMark started back engineering the snoring data, he discovered that the PR machines were keeping track of two kinds of snoring data; JediMark has chosen to call these two types of snore data Vibratory Snores (VS) and Vibratory Snores #2 (VS 2). Those of us who had access to Encore Pro and had data from both straight pressure mode and auto mode were able to help JediMark figure out just what the significance of those two kinds of snores are in the Encore/PR world are. Here's the run down as we now understand things:


VS snores
VS snores are recorded ONLY when a PR machine is running in Auto mode. If the machine is set to straight CPAP (or straight BiPAP), the machine will NOT record VS snores. If the machine is a model number 450/460 (System One PRO) or 650/660 (System One BiPAP PRO), the machine will NOT record VS snores.

The VS snores have time stamps attached to them, but they do not have a "magnitude" number. In the Sleepy Head "events" list, when you look at the detailed information for each VS snore event, the number in parenthesis will always be a 0. But VS snores are the snores that cause the Auto algorithm to respond by increasing the pressure. (On a BiPAP Auto, it's the EPAP that is increased.) For each VS scored, the machine typically increases the pressure by 1 cm. Hence if there's a cluster of VS's, the machine will keep increasing the pressure until either the snoring stops or the max pressure setting is reached.

In Encore, the VS's do NOT seem to show up as tick marks in the Events table. But it's hard to say for sure. Where they do show up is on the wave form when you look at it in Encore Pro (or Encore Basic). Of course, Encore only downloads the wave form for the last night (or sometimes the last two nights) when you down load the data. Encore Pro at least stores all the previously downloaded wave forms in the patient's database, but Encore Basic only stores the last wave form. SleepyHead also puts tick marks for VS snores on the wave form data when a PR machine is running in Auto and the VS data is being recorded.

So---as near as anybody I know who follows such things can tell: The VS snores make up the part of the snoring data that is used by the Auto algorithm when it determines that the snoring is significant enough to warrant an pressure increase. But nobody outside of the PR engineers know what the scoring criteria for a VS snore actually is.


VS 2 snores
VS 2 snores are recorded by all PR machines. They have both a time stamp and a "magnitude" number attached to them. In the Sleepy Head list, when you look at the detailed information for each VS snore event, there will be a NON-zero number in the in parenthesis for that event. Whether that number represents the length the snoring went on or some kind of measure of the loudness of the snoring is anybody's guess. We really do not know the significance of that number.

JediMark's SleepyHead VS 2 graph uses the "magnitude" numbers for the vertical-coordinates in the Snore graph. In other words, JediMark has set the SH VS2 graph up with the assumption that the "magnitude" numbers are somehow related to how bad the snoring is. That's not a totally unreasonable assumption since you can have VS 2 events closely space together with some rather large "magnitude" numbers. But it is an assumption and there's no real way to verify whether this assumption is valid. That's why the units on the Snore graphs are labeled as "Unknown" when you hover the mouse over the vertical scale of the Snore graph.

The VS 2 snores show up in Encore (all versions) as tick marks in the Events table based on the time stamp of the VS 2 event. But the calculation of the VSI index in Encore is not as straightforward as you would expect.


The Snore Indices in Sleepy Head and Encore
SleepyHead calculates the VSnore Index shown in the left sidebar of the Daily Details data as follows:
  • SleepyHead VSnore Index = (# of VS scored during the night)/(run time for the night)
And so the SleepyHead VSnore Index is nothing more than the average number of VS snores detected in an hour of sleep (or more technically run time).

IMPORTANT NOTE: The VS 2 events are not used to compute this index. This is important because:
  • If you are using a PR System One PRO or BiPAP PRO, your SleepyHead VSnore index will always be 0.0 even if you are snoring like a freight train because these machines record only the VS 2 snores; they do not record VS snores.
  • If you are using a PR System One AUTO or BiPAP AUTO in FIXED pressure mode, your SleepyHead VSnore index will always be 0.0 even if you are snoring like a freight train because these machines record only the VS 2 snores when run in FIXED pressure mode; they do not record VS snores.
In other words, the SleepyHead VSnore Index will always read 0.0 if you are using a PR System One machine in FIXED pressure mode.

Encore calculates the VSI shown on the right sidebar of the Daily Detailed data in a really bizarre way. I can illustrate this with data from my own data. On July 31, 2013, I had 3 VS 2 snores scored for the entire night. In SleepyHead, the data looks like this:

Code: Select all

Vibratory Snore #2 3 events
   #001:  06:43:58 (2)
   #002:  06:54:13 (3)
   #003:  08:27:51 (1)
Vibratory Snore  1 event
   #001:  06:53:41 (0)
Total run time for the night was 5:31:47, which is 5.53 hours. In Encore, the VSI on the right side of the Daily Detailed Data panel is reported as VSI = 1.1. Now Encore only shows three snore tick marks in the Events table on the daily data---one for each of the VS 2 snores. And the Encore Pro wave form shows only one snore tick mark---the one for the VS snore. So the total number of (relevant) snores is either 3 or 4 depending on whether the VSI is computed using just the VS 2's in the Event table or both the VS 2's and the VS snores shown only in the wave form.

But it's obvious that 3/5.53 is NOT equal to 1.1 and 4/5.53 is NOT equal to 1.1. Hence Encore is not computing its VSI by simply dividing the number of VS2 snores recorded during the night by the time the machine was running. Nor is it dividing the total number of snores recorded during the night by the time the machine was running.

Instead, with a bit of mathematical backwards engineering, we can figure out that Encore computes the Encore VSI for the night as follows:
  • Encore VSI = 1.1 = 6/5.53 - (2 + 3 + 1)/5.53 = (Sum of the "magnitude" numbers of the VS #2)/(run time)
And I've checked this "formula" out on many other nights---some with rather large numbers of snores and some with small numbers. And it always seems to be the case that:
  • Encore VSI = (Sum of the "magnitude" numbers for the VS 2's as shown in SleepyHead)/(run time for the night)
Why would Encore define the VSI (Vibratory Snore Index) in this way? I have no idea. Mathematically it makes no sense. If the snores are being scored as "discrete" events (the same way the Flow Limitations are scored as "discrete events") then the intuitive meaning of VSI would be the average number of events per hour, and VSI ought to be (number of snores)/(run time)

So that then leads to the following speculation: Is it possible that the "magnitude" number on the VS2 snores represents something other than loudness (severity) of the snoring? Perhaps the "magnitude number represents the length of time measured in (seconds? minutes? number of breaths?) that snoring was being detected? In that case, the Encore VSI would then represent the average amount of "snoring time" in each hour of sleep measured in (seconds? minutes? number of breaths?)


How does the machine detect snoring anyway??
The PR System One does not have a microphone attached to it. So it's not listening to the sound of your snoring. So how does it actually detect snoring?

It analyzes the wave form. When a person is snoring (at least when they're snoring loudly or persistently) there are some characteristic changes to the wave form, and the PR's analysis algorithms can pick that up. Exactly what the difference between the changes needed to score a VS and the changes needed to score a VS 2 are is anybody's guess. But some of the machines can be pretty sensitive to picking up vibrations that are coming from sources other than the patient's own airflow. Pugsy says that her VS 2 numbers are strongly correlated to whether or not her snoring dog is sleeping in the bed with her. Other folks have noticed that they can make the machine score VS2's by causing the hose to rub against a sharp edge of the nightstand or the headboard. And so on and so forth. But that said, real snoring is picked up by the PR System One as well as false snoring. You basically have to look at patterns in your own data and learn to interpret based on what you know is going on at night and what you think might be going on at night.

I'm aware that this post has likely provided you with both far more (technical) information than you may have wanted. But hopefully this will give you some things to think about when looking at your own snore numbers.

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Last edited by robysue on Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pugsy's Pointers...SleepyHead Tutorial and TX Hints

Post by KarenK » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:56 am

Does the SD card only hold one month of data?? I just installed the program, and only the last month [November] shows up, even though I have been using this for a few months.

Will the data go away if it is more than one month old??

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Re: Pugsy's Pointers...SleepyHead Tutorial and TX Hints

Post by Pugsy » Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:37 am

KarenK wrote:Does the SD card only hold one month of data?? I just installed the program, and only the last month [November] shows up, even though I have been using this for a few months.

Will the data go away if it is more than one month old??
The 30 days is what the ResMed S9 does for detailed data. It starts overwriting the oldest files after 30 days.
SleepyHead needs those detailed data files to do any calculations. You actually have data older than 30 days on the SD card but it is summary usage data ...no graphs. ResScan will show that older data.

So the problem you have is SleepyHead needing access to the detailed graphs to calculate anything and the S9 overwrites some of those files after 30 days.

The SD card would hold years of usage if the machine didn't overwrite the files.

ResScan will show you some (but not all) of the data that SleepyHead says you don't have. Send me a private message if you want to try ResScan. Windows only software though. No Mac version.

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Re: Pugsy's Pointers...SleepyHead Tutorial and TX Hints

Post by Mattbnr » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:01 pm

I would love to be able to see my data. I have the s9 resmed and I am currently just going by the machine readouts. The last day, last week, 3 months, and year readings to adjust my pressures and what not. Will sleepyheads do what I want? I've been on cpap for like 5 years but don't go to a doctor or anything since being diagnosed and getting my machine.

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Re: Pugsy's Pointers...SleepyHead Tutorial and TX Hints

Post by robysue » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:13 am

Mattbnr wrote:I would love to be able to see my data. I have the s9 resmed and I am currently just going by the machine readouts.
Sleepy Head should work with your Resmed S9 if it is an Elite, AutoSet, or VPAP Auto. If it's a VPAP ASV, SleepyHead may be a bit buggy.

But the first time you download the data, you may only be able to see the last seven days worth of data. That's because Sleepy Head seems to need the flow wave data and the S9s overwrite that data every seven days.

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Re: Pugsy's Pointers..Chart from my ResMed S9 Autoset SD Card

Post by welshmike » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:02 am

Below is a clip of the chart produced by ResScan showing my apnoea for last night's sleep.
What do the Events Central mean please?
This was nearly the best night's obstructive apnoea free sleep I've had since starting using my APAP on 25 November.
Please what does that Obstructive 77.00 at about 04:40 am mean?
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Re: Pugsy's Pointers...SleepyHead Tutorial and TX Hints

Post by Pugsy » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:50 am

welshmike wrote:What do the Events Central mean please?
This was nearly the best night's obstructive apnoea free sleep I've had since starting using my APAP on 25 November.
Please what does that Obstructive 77.00 at about 04:40 am mean?
For more member input I suggest that start a new thread with your questions. The forum veterans won't be watching this thread and you won't get the attention that you deserve.
Centrals are open airway cessation of breathing...no air flow but the airway is open as opposed to being blocked by the collapse of airway tissues causing the lack of air flow with an obstructive event.

The numbers in the boxes above the events are duration of events in seconds. So in this case an obstructive apnea that lasted 77 seconds...and yes, that's pretty darn long.

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Re: Pugsy's Pointers...SleepyHead Tutorial and TX Hints

Post by CharlieDog » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:06 pm

Sleepyhead won't fully load document files, help, FAQ, definitions etc. goes to page and I can see the page but then program crashes. Data imports and displays just fine. Very cool!

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