OT: Anti-snark Request

(NOTE: I originally typed this as a response to a thread regarding a cpaptalk member who had withdrawn from the forum. Then I decided not to post it at all. Finally I decided that I would risk posting it as a new thread.)

Gee, I hate to post this in light of the above string of posts regarding [named removed], a person offering machines and supplies for sale, and the recent series of posts encouraging the return of a member who withdrew from the forum. I would prefer to stay out of the occasional conflict that occur on the forum. But, because of the negative impact some posts had on me and for the "potential" positive benefit, I have decided to weigh in.

Below I have pasted a December 2011 PM I sent to an experienced forum member and secondly, that member's response.

No one has benefited more from this forum than me. I have never experienced a group of people more willing unselfishly to share their time, knowledge and experience. My overall assessment of the forum has been excellent. I attribute the information I learned here to my success in obtaining ASV therapy to resolve my problem. Without this forum, I probably would never have learned how to monitor my therapy and probably still be on ineffective CPAP therapy.

HOWEVER, as pointed out in my PM pasted below, after about a month or two, I decided to withdraw from cpaptalk. If it had not been for the experienced member with whom I had been having extremely beneficial PMs, I would have. I'm extremely grateful I didn't!

In many of the posts written to invite "the withdrawn member" back to the forum, members used the phrase SNARKY. Perhaps we should all think of that and evaluate the potential that our sharky post might drive someone else away. Especially if they are new; don't know the other members and aren't familiar with the occasional "edgy" give and take among members.

NOW TO THE ISSUE and I HOPE I don't set myself up for personal attack:

1. Since I have posted and sold some cpap machines and supplies on this forum, I understand and concur with the comments posted regarding potentially damaging the forum.

2. Perhaps the "poster" did make a mistake and, right or wrong, "appear" to be opening a store.

3. Since "leaving" the forum, he seems to be the target and there appears to be "piling on."

However, I personally feel that he was making a genuine attempt to provide products.

For about a year now, I have been helping a person in the Ukraine, who operates a clinic that treats ALS, obtain VPAP S/T machines. Prior to my involvement they had significant difficulty getting the machines, because most people (including me) were hesitant to "trust" shipping to the Ukraine. In the past year, I have facilitated the sale of about 8 or 9 S/Ts to the clinic.

I WAS the person who bought the ResMed VPAP S/T. Prior to the purchase, I got information about him, his name, his PayPal registered account, his position with the DME, his personal e-mail address, his mailing address, his phone number and a picture of the machine. He offered an extremely good price and then agreed to a lower price when I explained about the clinic. I paid for the machine with my PayPal account. As with the prior S/Ts, the clinic will reimburse me for the price, plus shipping.

Will I get stuck on the purchase? I don't know, but I don't think I will.

Again, I hope I am not setting myself up for ridicule, I just feel every person we unnecessarily lose hurts the forum, and to suggest that we all evaluate the potential negative impact a quick, humorous/snarky post might have on others.

________________________________________________________________________________________________
PM I SENT TO AN EXPERIENCED CPAPTALK FORUM MEMBER:

I am taking the liberty of sending you a PM because of your gracious response to a prior PM I sent you.

I have only been involved with this Forum since December 3rd. At first, I was very enthusiastic because of my typical Newbie lack of information. As I began to learn more, I have totally backed off contributing and almost discontinued monitoring the forum because . . .

There ARE many of you experienced users investing your time and knowledge -- it is gratefully received. But, there seems to be an increasing number of people with "humor" and sarcasm that borders on insults. So, I prefer to not be a part of it.

However, every time I decide to BAIL, enters [Name Deleted] with a well written, articulate article than makes me want to hang on.

On behalf of probably a silent MAJORITY, I wanted to thank you for your time, information and insight!

______________________________________________________________________________________________
PM RESPONSE FROM THAT EXPERIENCED CPAPTALK MEMBER:

Greetings and Thanks!

I do try to help others. I've tried to live in such a way as to try to do what I would want others to do. I try to bring light into the world. Life can be so overwhelming. By helping one another we can make that journey easier on ourselves.

I also do it to wring out some meaning from my own frustrations along the way. If I can use that experience to help others, it makes my situation feel a little more bearable.

Unfortunately, there are many people who are hurtful to others. It comes from many reasons. Regardless of the reason, I can not forgive the behavior. I have been on the receiving end of the "humor" too often.

The only thing that seems to work against it is to stand up and say "No!". And to demonstrate another example. It can lead to clashes in an online forum, but must be done if the forum is to remain fairly helpful.

So, you will learn to ignore the check and try to improve the forum ... And help another, who journeys your same path. No great wisdom. But thank you for saying it matters.

Grand-PAP, no flames here. I went through the same thought process recently and decided to stay. Way too much good going on here to move away. It only takes a little bit of light to drown out the darkness. I can't change anybody but myself, but a good example can go a long way. Thanks for speaking up. We all have our parts to play in the big scheme of things. You sometimes just have to take the good with the bad, unfortunately. Lives are being saved/changed here and that is what I try to focus on.

I like your Anti-Snark Request, and must say you are taking a great approach to a problem we have all encountered here. This is a great forum, I have been helped so much by the wonderful folks I've encountered her. As for snarkiness, I have responded to some 'snarky members' with not-so-nice posts when they have lashed out at members just looking for answers. That is why we are here & the members who just want to snap at others irk me. I should not snap back, but I have & will try in the future to just ignore there nastiness.

There is more light here than dark & this forum is a great place to come to for info & advice and I think its great for so many members to 'pay it back' for all the help they received. I choose to 'pay it back' & help those I can help. I've been on CPAP for 13 yrs & just found this forum last Oct. I've gotten so much help from the good members here I've decided its worth looking past the 'snarkiness' factor that a few bad apples bring to the table. I'm glad you took the time to write this.

Sending you good thoughts,
Jen

Well said Mate. I've only seen one nasty seeming post here to a newbie and when he was called out on it the backpeddling and attempts to explain were simly amazing. I know tht if I had gotten the sort of treatment he gave to the newbie I would have a far different opinion of this forum than I do now. I'm a fairly sarcastic person myself but I generally save it for people that I know and that I know can handle it and take it for what it is.

jencat824 wrote:I like your Anti-Snark Request, and must say you are taking a great approach to a problem we have all encountered here. This is a great forum, I have been helped so much by the wonderful folks I've encountered her. -snip
There is more light here than dark & this forum is a great place to come to for info & advice and I think its great for so many members to 'pay it back' for all the help they received. I choose to 'pay it back' & help those I can help. I've been on CPAP for 13 yrs & just found this forum last Oct. I've gotten so much help from the good members here I've decided its worth looking past the 'snarkiness' factor that a few bad apples bring to the table. I'm glad you took the time to write this.

Sending you good thoughts,
Jen

I'm not a frequent poster, but consider the majority of the posts on this site to be very instructive and with good humor. Further, the wealth of knowledge that is shared freely is what keeps me here. I have lots to learn.
I have to agree with GrandPAP and many others that the tone here has gotten out of hand over the past many months. AS my personal circumstances have been very difficult the 20 months I've been on CPAPTalk, the negativity hasn't been an appreciated aspect of this forum lately. The good humor suits me much better that the snarkiness.
I applaud GrandPAP's motivation in making this post, and would add that I'm a happy camper, now that I've been using an ASV that he sold me in January. I'm happy to know the mission GrandPAP is on; when I bought the machine from him, I had no idea what his situation was/is.
I would encourage all forum contributors to 'speak' as if their parents or a member of the clergy was proofing our posts. In other words, the Golden Rule is a worthy measuring ruler for weighing what we say here. //I like your post, Jen//
OK, I'm going to put the kickstand down and park this ride. Thanks to the many here who take the time and patience to work with we beginners.

The periodic in-fighting is really not new around here. I first joined in 2006, and I thought I'd found paradise. It was my first introduction to a forum community. I was utterly undone the first time I witnessed a battle of the words on here. It was like a loss of innocence - I actually cried and was grieved over it. There have been a few times I've considered just walking away, as my life has enough of its own battles without filling my head and heart with other people's mess unnecessarily. Anyhow, like others have said, I stay around because I am grateful for the help I received and want to be a part of giving that to another struggling soul.

What I've come to accept is just as in any other arena, there's all kinds of personalities here. There's nice people and some not-so-nice. Just because we share a sleep apnea diagnosis will not make us bosom buddies. Makes me think of how after all these years, many of my high school graduating class have renewed contact with regular gatherings and of course, Facebook. Some of my classmates I'm finding I enjoy their company and think that I would have enjoyed staying in touch during those "missing" years. Then there are those that I know I would have never been friends with beyond a cordial greeting in public even if they had lived next door. I don't like them. I don't like how they think, speak, or act. I can have a brief conversation with them if it's a subject of common interest, but that's it. Then there are those that are a mess, everyone knows they're a mess, but they have redeeming qualities that make me willing to put up with their other "issues". I expect that's how others view me. lol

I don't expect an online forum to be any different. It is what it is. We can only try to set the tone for positivity. And challenge wrong when we see it. Problem is, our definitions of wrong are going to be different. One thing I read in a prior post that rings true with me is the tendency towards piling on. Wow, that is so true. Rallying the troops to defense is one thing, but a mob mentality is never pretty.

Home sweet home. Well, most of the time anyways.

GrandPAP and KTeague; Your posts have really moved me. I'm not a 'snarky' person per say and can appreciate it sometimes when others tend in that direction. But as with anything, there a limits and when someone is 'showboating' or flaunting their 'amazing intellect' and it is just plain annoying. Most of the people on this site are genuine, caring and considerate of others feelings. That's the way I want to be always even when not on the forum.

kteague wrote:Then there are those that are a mess, everyone knows they're a mess, but they have redeeming qualities that make me willing to put up with their other "issues". I expect that's how others view me. lol

You are one of a handful of people on this forum who actually make some sense when they speak. Definitely NOT a mess!

MagsterMile wrote:GrandPAP and KTeague; Your posts have really moved me. I'm not a 'snarky' person per say and can appreciate it sometimes when others tend in that direction. But as with anything, there a limits and when someone is 'showboating' or flaunting their 'amazing intellect' and it is just plain annoying. Most of the people on this site are genuine, caring and considerate of others feelings. That's the way I want to be always even when not on the forum.

Ditto!! In my one year on this forum, I have met MANY kind and caring people who really try to help others out. They more than make up for the few who tend more to the snarky side.

I was new to this forum last year having used CPAP for 10+ years. I asked for help & was surprised by the response I received from one forum member that I almost left.

Pugsy come along & after talking to her I decided to stay, she was a breath of fresh air, so helpful & a very nice person

I was also a victim of a scam with one other on this forum but have moved past that as this forum has so many good people that out weigh the negative people here.

Talking about good people here we also have STL Mark who has been very helpful & then we come to Grand-PAP, this guy blew me out of the water & restored my faith in human nature, I purchased an S9 ASV off him earlier this year & he would not accept payment until he knew I was happy with the machine, BTW I'm in Australia, how good is that?

To the forum member that has just left, all I can say is, come back, there are more positive's than negative's here.

Take care all.

I also have ambivalent feelings about this forum. I don't understand the snarksters and would hate to be bullied by them. But the majority of the people here function as a mutual aid society and I appreciate the sense of community we have among us.

I left the Apnea Suport Forum ASAA because of a "Snarky" exchange with a moderator. This one is self moderated and I choose to ignor a lot of posts and have switched into the lurking mode mostly. This one is more interesting at times and we get to mention breand names.

I'm reminded of my experience when we moved to Louisiana in 1991. We attended a church that was pretty much the same as the ones we had attended previously. I borrowed about 15 years worth of annual reports and read through them. I discovered that years earlier the church had had some serious tensions over civil rights issues and a number of people left. A short while later a new minister came in who was not a fire brand of action, and in fact was rather meek and mild, and actually somewhat lazy. Things calmed down, the people became quite friendly to each other, and all interpersonal tensions evaporated. Guess what? Attendance started a steady decline and was still declining when we left 15 years later.

What I realized was that in the absence of tension, and with the glorification of harmony, everyone became complacent and the drive to promote the church's mission in the community diminished. It can be the same here. The occasional spat, and expressions of disagreement, stimulate folks to think about their positions, and to defend them, which in turn stimulates others to find reasons to disagree. The net result is we all think harder, and more broadly, than we would if we were all in perfect harmony. Now, this is not to say fighting is good, or deliberately berating someone else is acceptable, but if there were no tension ever displayed this place would become pretty blah. Consider the couch potato compared to the weight machine user. Which one will develop greater strength?

idamtnboy wrote:I'm reminded of my experience when we moved to Louisiana in 1991. We attended a church that was pretty much the same as the ones we had attended previously. I borrowed about 15 years worth of annual reports and read through them. I discovered that years earlier the church had had some serious tensions over civil rights issues and a number of people left. A short while later a new minister came in who was not a fire brand of action, and in fact was rather meek and mild, and actually somewhat lazy. Things calmed down, the people became quite friendly to each other, and all interpersonal tensions evaporated. Guess what? Attendance started a steady decline and was still declining when we left 15 years later.

What I realized was that in the absence of tension, and with the glorification of harmony, everyone became complacent and the drive to promote the church's mission in the community diminished. It can be the same here. The occasional spat, and expressions of disagreement, stimulate folks to think about their positions, and to defend them, which in turn stimulates others to find reasons to disagree. The net result is we all think harder, and more broadly, than we would if we were all in perfect harmony. Now, this is not to say fighting is good, or deliberately berating someone else is acceptable, but if there were no tension ever displayed this place would become pretty blah. Consider the couch potato compared to the weight machine user. Which one will develop greater strength?

Agree with you (a rare occasion) about the forum, the church and the weightlifter.

(But do note that if the weightlifter overtrains he could become weaker than the couch potato.)

Congratulations, you made a nice post extolling the benefits of competition and warning about systems which suppress competition!

I prefer getting snarky comments than just being ignored. I think this is mostly my fault because I don't know how to ask the right questions or ask them in the right way due to brain fog.