As Requested: SCREENSHOTS and Data

Mozart22 wrote:So with this data, and my low AHI and very good compliance, can anyone tell me why I feel more tired, not less tired??

How much of that time were you actually asleep? I believe you mentioned in another thread that you were often awake for 4-5 hours of the time you were in bed. Is that still true? If so, you aren't getting a full night of sleep.

Now that I included specific data and graphs, I hope the experts and old timers can tell me if they notice anything very relevant and useful.
What do you guys think based on the charts and graphs provided?

My opinion (for what it's worth -- and I recognize that it may not be much since I don't actually sleep with a mask on) is that if you are waking 3-4 times a night to reseal the mask, that's disturbing your sleep. If I wake 3-4 times to pee or to tend to a child up in the night, I feel very tired the next day, even if I'm only awake for 1 or 2 minutes at a time. I don't know if leaks are waking you and that's what's prompting you to reseal the mask, or not, but it seems that would be where I would start. Most nights my husband doesn't wake at all to deal with his mask anymore. At first he did quite a bit and the messing with the mask and knowing that he wasn't asleep would make him anxious and then he would have a hard time getting back to sleep.

mamagoober wrote:My opinion (for what it's worth -- and I recognize that it may not be much since I don't actually sleep with a mask on) is that if you are waking 3-4 times a night to reseal the mask, that's disturbing your sleep. If I wake 3-4 times to pee or to tend to a child up in the night, I feel very tired the next day, even if I'm only awake for 1 or 2 minutes at a time. I don't know if leaks are waking you and that's what's prompting you to reseal the mask, or not, but it seems that would be where I would start. Most nights my husband doesn't wake at all to deal with his mask anymore. At first he did quite a bit and the messing with the mask and knowing that he wasn't asleep would make him anxious and then he would have a hard time getting back to sleep.

I understand your point, and I am well aware my sleep can be fragmented and I may have trouble falling asleep sometimes.
That being said, I think there is only a small percentage of people who can go to bed, start dreaming immediately, and keep dreaming
for 8 hours straight. Some people can do that, but I think most people cannot. Surely most of you cannot honestly say that
when you're in bed it's nothing but 8 nonstop hours of deep, continuous sleep. I've been around some deep sleepers who seem to be able
to sleep through anything, and even they will temporarily awake from their dreams a couple times a night to to sneeze or readjust the covers
or something of that nature.

No one dreams all night. Our sleep cycles naturally go between different levels of sleep and only one of them is a level where you dream. There are others here who are more educated about sleep cycles so I will let some of them speak to that. Many here have a Zeo which tracks which part of your sleep cycle you are in all night.

I do know that of something were waking me multiple times a night, I would try my hardest to get to the bottom of it without sacrificing my health.

Thanks Pugsy!! You seem to know what you're talking about!
Anyone else? Keep 'em coming! I especially want to hear from those who can comment on the charts and graphs provided
and can speak from experience and understanding.

I would not advise using shipping tape; it is too sticky and may be too hard to remove quickly.
3M blue painters tape will be easier to remove (it sometimes works loose at night,
but there are certainly worse things than that..

Quit APAP?

Mozart22 wrote: I understand your point, and I am well aware my sleep can be fragmented and I may have trouble falling asleep sometimes.
That being said, I think there is only a small percentage of people who can go to bed, start dreaming immediately, and keep dreaming
for 8 hours straight. Some people can do that, but I think most people cannot. Surely most of you cannot honestly say that
when you're in bed it's nothing but 8 nonstop hours of deep, continuous sleep. I've been around some deep sleepers who seem to be able
to sleep through anything, and even they will temporarily awake from their dreams a couple times a night to to sneeze or readjust the covers
or something of that nature.

I would be surprised if some people can actually dream for 8 hours as that is NOT normal. I suspect that would even be bad if people remembered dreaming all night since most people can only remember them if they wake up during the dreams. That is why we typically only remember a dream if we wake up to use the bathroom, have a bad night, or the last dream when we get up.

Many people do get many hours of continuous sleep. I just about had a party when I woke up after 7 hours without any trips to the bathroom. I probably had a couple small wakeups to rollover of something, but nothing worthy of remembering. Not like my normal nights.

The past 4 nights, I have been very pleased to sleep more than 5 hours straight, which has still been pretty rare for me. I actually hit 6 hours straight last night. I got another 3 hours after my bathroom break, so I feel pretty good. It is my day off, so I had time to sleep in a bit, and I just got up about 20 minutes ago. I'm hoping this trend continues, as it is nice to finally get some real continuous sleep multiple days in a row.

I think you need to learn more about sleep as you have some unusual ides about sleep. You count wakeup time with eyes closed in bed as sleep time. Yet you also seem to imply that sleep means dreaming or remembered dreaming, and that isn't true either. you need to be getting deep sleep for its restorative effects, and that means going through the sleep stages. If you wake up frequently, you have to go through the stages again, and it is difficult to get enough restorative sleep. You don't want to be spending most of the night in light sleep. That may explain why you are not feeling better.

Today (Monday) I woke up and as usual, felt exhausted. After 3 hours I was ready to sleep again but forced myself to stay up because
I had slept a long time last night already. APAP therapy made things worse not better for me. Now I'm getting ready to go to sleep for the
night. I would love to wake up feeling refreshed tomorrow morning, but the chances of that happening are not high.
Before I started APAP therapy I was tired but not this bad. Maybe there are just some people for who APAP therapy is not intended and
aggravates instead of lessens the problem.

I went from being often tired to being often flat out exhausted, and all that changed was that I started APAP therapy.
Oh well. Off to bed I go.

Mozart,

There is a lot we can do to help you if you are willing to answer our questions and try our advice. Are you willing to do that?

How many hours per night are you unconscious? As in, actually sleep. I don't mean dreaming. But I don't mean being in bed with yours eyes closed?

How many times are you waking up each night? How much real sleep are you actually getting?

Are you expecting to feel better with only 5 or 6 hours of sleep per night?

zoocrewphoto wrote:Mozart,

There is a lot we can do to help you if you are willing to answer our questions and try our advice. Are you willing to do that?

How many hours per night are you unconscious? As in, actually sleep. I don't mean dreaming. But I don't mean being in bed with yours eyes closed?

How many times are you waking up each night? How much real sleep are you actually getting?

Are you expecting to feel better with only 5 or 6 hours of sleep per night?

I already answered these questions before.

Last night I was "unconscious" for about 7 hours. Total sleep time 10 and a half hours.
I didn't wake up out of bed but did adjust the mask twice because I had been sleeping on my side.
I don't know why I'm so exhausted despite using the APAP everynight, low AHI, low leaks, good pressure
range, etc.

Mozart22 wrote:

zoocrewphoto wrote:Mozart,

There is a lot we can do to help you if you are willing to answer our questions and try our advice. Are you willing to do that?

How many hours per night are you unconscious? As in, actually sleep. I don't mean dreaming. But I don't mean being in bed with yours eyes closed?

How many times are you waking up each night? How much real sleep are you actually getting?

Are you expecting to feel better with only 5 or 6 hours of sleep per night?

I already answered these questions before.

Last night I was "unconscious" for about 7 hours. Total sleep time 10 and a half hours.
I didn't wake up out of bed but did adjust the mask twice because I had been sleeping on my side.
I don't know why I'm so exhausted despite using the APAP everynight, low AHI, low leaks, good pressure
range, etc.

Have you switched your machine to CPAP mode and used a fixed pressure yet?

What part of "the pressure changes are screwing up your sleep" don't you understand?

.

Mozart22 wrote:

zoocrewphoto wrote:Mozart,

There is a lot we can do to help you if you are willing to answer our questions and try our advice. Are you willing to do that?

How many hours per night are you unconscious? As in, actually sleep. I don't mean dreaming. But I don't mean being in bed with yours eyes closed?

How many times are you waking up each night? How much real sleep are you actually getting?

Are you expecting to feel better with only 5 or 6 hours of sleep per night?

I already answered these questions before.

Last night I was "unconscious" for about 7 hours. Total sleep time 10 and a half hours.
I didn't wake up out of bed but did adjust the mask twice because I had been sleeping on my side.
I don't know why I'm so exhausted despite using the APAP everynight, low AHI, low leaks, good pressure
range, etc.

I believe this is the first reply directly to any of my questions. I have responded on both topics to ask about your sleep and hours, and you did not reply. Before, you clearly stated that you were only getting 5-6 hours of sleep, yet you were unhappy that you did not feel better. Do you expect to feel better with only 5-6 hours of sleep? You were also saying at the same time that you were getting 10 hours of sleep (without telling us that 4-5 hours were not actual sleep), thus implying that you were sleeping more than a normal night's amount of sleep, rather than less.

How can we help you adjust to cpap if you are not telling us accurate information. Or having a realistic idea of good sleep. CPAP does not cure insomnia. We can help you work through that, but only if we know it exists. Also, you have talked about sleep as if we have to dream all night. That isn't normal either. And if you are dreaming most of the night, AND remembering it, then you are waking frequently, and not getting deep sleep. This is a huge problem and will affect how you feel.

It sounds like the pressure changes are waking you and/or keeping you fidgeting. You will probably do better with a set pressure, which has been recommended several times. Have you tried it yet?

We know you're very anxious and the good people here are trying very hard to be patient with you. It seems there's a pretty good consensus that you might be a good candidate for straight cpap pressure with a setting of 8 or 9cms. I don't remember if you're using Aflex but that may need some tweaking as well. It's very common for some people to be sensitive to pressure changes or even the algorithim of the Aflex bothers them. There's a pretty steep learning curve with this therapy and only a lucky few take to it like a duck to water. Good luck.