Oboma .. another term

deerhound wrote:Did you have a cell phone when Reagan was President?

Read the Snopes page. I said the PROGRAM was started under Reagan. Do you read anything besides forwarded emails or just listen to Rush?

It's like I have always said, People will vote... "You can take away from everybody else, just don't take mine"! That is going to be the demise of this country! The government (Republican or Democrat) cannot continue to give,give,give. The federal government was never given the power to do what it is doing today. You guys expect everyone else to provide for you and your families. That is where charities and the churches are supposed to step in, not the government. Please read the Bill of Rights and the Constitution! Oh, I forgot, the democrats believe that the constitution is out dated and needs to be done away with!

If everyone is going to whine, because everything is not fair, I work a lot of hours, more than the average american. I don't get every bull sh** holiday off with pay, that's not fair! I make lower pay than someone that does the same job and they earn union wages, that's not fair! When both my wife and myself was laid off in 1982, we didn't get to draw 99 weeks of unemployment, then get put on disability, that's not fair! Got news for you, life is not fair! We had to take a job making below minimum wage, because we were only allowed 13 weeks of unemployment. Unemployment in our county at that time hit 24%. Now the Dems have the nerve to say they were thrown into an economy that is the worst it has been since the great depression! What a joke!

You guys say don't spend money on wars and defense so that we can pay down debt, we are borrowing the money for these wars and defense because we are over spending! Are we going to borrow money to pay down the debt? Sounds like a Obama plan to me, spend our way out of debt! The US has always been a major power in the world, because of its military power, take that away and we can and will be attacked!

You think you want Obamacare! Ask someone that has been or is in the military, how they like their health care. Most (not all) will tell you, that it's not the greatest, yes it's free, but not very good! You want the government to give you healthcare coverage, but you want to take away money from the guys that are overseas putting their life on the line for your freedom! I would be ashamed of myself! Our soldiers deserve the best equipment that money can buy, to help keep them safe and defend our country! Do you even have a clue what kind of pay these brave men and women receive for putting their life on the line for you? Even if we don't need to spend money on better equipment, the money should be spent to give our soldiers a pay raise! Oh, by the way, the military is part of what the federal government is supposed to take care of!

Have you watched the news, the people of NJ and NY begging for help, thy are cold, hungry, no gas, no water, no power and little help being offered! Then when Alabama sends electrical crews up there to help out, they deny their help, because they are not union!!! Are you serious! I felt sorry for the people there, but, they elected their leaders to make those decisions for them, so I guess they are getting what they voted for! That is the great Democrats and union thugs working on their behalf! Then they go and vote the same people back into office! Sorry, but now it's hard to feel sorry for anyone that won't try to help themselves! At least Obama stopped there for a photo opp! A couple of years ago, when we had all the floods here in Tennessee, Nashville under water, he didn't even show up down here. MY guess, because he didn't carry Tennessee in 2008!

Let me ask all of you a question. When we have spent our country into oblivion, and ran all the "rich" people out of our country and they take all their jobs with them, who is going to pay for all the freebies that you are expecting? Who is going to provide you with a job to support your family? With all that said, I'm not real happy with the republicans either, they are almost as bad as the Democrats. Now I have heard several times today, how we (Rep & Dem) need to work together to get this economy going again! That is code for "you Republicans need to give Obama everything he and the Democrats want"! Like he hasn't already taken everything he wanted. I say, until the Democrats can come up with a budget that cuts spending, don't give them anything! Since our country is running on borrowed money, if they can't start making cuts, don't let them raise the debt ceiling. Shut the country down, let the people see how bad it can get, and maybe, just maybe we can wake up some of these people. I hate to sound cold hearted, but, it has to stop!!!!!!

whew....... 10-4 on that!

I apologize in advance for not letting this post die and letting everyone get back to the regularly scheduled Cpap forums.

I was tired last night, and had to get up early this morning to go to work. I ended up with major sinus problems and up most of the night, couldn't hardly breath, vomiting and didn't go to work today. I don't want to disrespect anyone on this forum, but it is so important to understand what is going on in your country and the world. I know it is not on the top of anyone's list to take the time to inform yourself about your country and your government. All I ask is for you take 11 minutes of your time, to at the very least get a concept of what your government was designed to do, and see where it is headed. The following video does a decent job of trying to explain our government and show where this country is headed, if people don't start paying attention! This is only a start to understanding our government, it doesn't even touch the limited powers our federal government is supposed to have!

This is very important people, this will affect you and your families lives in the near future! After you watch the video, be honest and tell me you don't think we are another Rome in the making! You are living for the moment, not considering the consequences that you and your kids will face tomorrow. This will hopefully help you understand what we are headed for if we don't stop all the give away's, and taking other people's money, and raising taxes! Remember that history has a way of repeating itself!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zfgFOwa ... ure=colike

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Slartybartfast wrote: For what it's worth, I think De Tocqueville's tipping point might have been reached:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years."

From the results of the elections, both national and state, it appears that more people now look upon their government as a provider of benefits, rather than merely as a protector of their basic liberties. And politicians, being what they are, will do everything they can to entice voters to support them, even if it involves bribing them with their own money.

So, the questions I have are how many democracies is this hypothesis based on? What comes next - by knowing this are we able to avoid the dictatorship (we certainly have the loose fiscal policy), or how do we get back to a workable democracy?

Actually, this is the complete text of the quote that Slarty listed. According to the sources I found (some years ago), Alexander Fraser Tytler is the source of the quote, but in any case it bears repeating.

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence. From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance, from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back into bondage.”

(quote is often attributed to ) Alexander Fraser Tytler (1747-1813)

And then.....

"Yes, we did produce a near-perfect Republic. But, will they keep it, or, will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the surest way to destruction."
Thomas Jefferson

"The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits."
Thomas Jefferson


Den

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I think we just have to accept that we've lived to see the end of America as the world's greatest country. I'm glad to have lived through its best days, and glad that most of my years are now behind me.

SleepyToo2 wrote:

Slartybartfast wrote: For what it's worth, I think De Tocqueville's tipping point might have been reached:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years."

From the results of the elections, both national and state, it appears that more people now look upon their government as a provider of benefits, rather than merely as a protector of their basic liberties. And politicians, being what they are, will do everything they can to entice voters to support them, even if it involves bribing them with their own money.

So, the questions I have are how many democracies is this hypothesis based on? What comes next - by knowing this are we able to avoid the dictatorship (we certainly have the loose fiscal policy), or how do we get back to a workable democracy?

You have a computer and internet, let your fingers do the walking. As far as getting back to a workable democracy, we are in a democracy right now, a place we should have never been! The government has slowly over the years, turned our country from the republic that it was founded upon into a democracy! This country was never supposed to be a democracy, but, starting back as far as FDR, the government has used the term loosely, as if a republic and democracy is the same thing! It's not! Watch the video at the link above, it will help explain the difference. The trouble is that our elected officials, were supposed to protect us from falling into a democracy, but, instead, have lead us there! And we as Americans, have followed along like sheep following a shepard.
You want to get back to a working republic? it's almost to late! That would take a book to explain all of that to you! The first thing is you have to pay attention to who is voted into office! If they are making promises of helping with housing, medical, food, prescriptions, saving jobs by loaning money to businesses that are to big to fail, they are the very one's you need to run from! Federal government was never designed to control any of this! Then you have to figure out a way to get people to understand they can't expect the government to fix everything in their lives and quite asking the government for handouts! Why do you think that 48% of Americans don't pay taxes anymore? It helps to buy votes! When the government gets over 50% of Americans off the tax payroll, this country is finished!
You need to get all these trial lawyers stopped, they are bankrupting businesses all over America! Who actually wins in most of these class action lawsuits? Not the victims, they will usually walk away with a few hundred to a few thousand dollars, if that, while the lawyers walk away with hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions! Why do you think they advertise so much on TV, about drugs you have taken, or truck wrecks, or malpractice? Big insurance policies! Think about why your insurance cost are so high!They don't give a crap about you! Your just a vehicle to a big payday for them!
Special interest groups and lobbyist in Washington, to get laws passed to favor them and their groups or companies! It's all a big payday for politicians, lawyers, special interest groups and lobbyist, all riding on the working mans back! But, they will throw out a few crumbs, to keep people content and obedient. Cause divide among people, so they don't pay attention to what is really happening in Washington! A few (very few) politicians go to Washington hoping to do some good for our country, but most, know there is a big payday waiting for them and most of all, they enjoy and want the POWER and PRIVILEGES. While they are busy with all of this, they are destroying America and they don't care! As long as they get theirs!

To JeffL>>> you posted while I was writing this. What about your kids and grand-kids and their kids, they still have to face what we are letting the government destroy? Have a little pride, and try to help stop all of this, so that future generations have a future! I'm not posting this, for my health! I want people to pay attention, use the internet to learn, get the word out and help stop this country from falling of a cliff! The internet is one of the most valuable resources we have at our disposal, we just have to use it! You came here to this board to learn more about S/A, and cpap therapy. So, use it to learn what is happening with our country, instead of facebook, twitter and games! Your never to old to learn, and be proactive instead of passive! We can get our country back, it will take a lot of work! There would never have been a great America, if our forefathers had the same attitude people have today! They fought and gave their lives so that we could have what we do today. So I think we all owe a little effort to try and save our great land! Don't just throw your hands up and say it's over! Lady Liberty may be on her knees, but, we can help her up and let her stand tall again!

Wulfman... wrote:Actually, this is the complete text of the quote that Slarty listed. According to the sources I found (some years ago), Alexander Fraser Tytler is the source of the quote, but in any case it bears repeating....

This is one of those made-up quotations that knocks around the Internet and networks of e-mail friends. Here is an interesting article about when the different sections first appeared, how they got connected into one quotation and attributed to Tytler (among others), and how the words have changed (such as dropping a reference to all democracies evolving into monarchies): The Truth About Tytler.

This is one of those pieces of nonsense that anyone can see is obviously false if they think about it for a minute. For example, surely American voters discovered that they could "vote themselves largesse from the public treasury" by the first Roosevelt administration, yet they have not always voted for the candidates promising the most benefits since then, have they? Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. The idea that every great civilizations progresses through that list of characteristics is silly too. Take "liberty to abundance." Has there ever been a civilization prior to ours in which most people even experienced abundance? In every age most people have been poor peasants, often serfs or slaves, and no one but a narrow elite ever had abundance. Societies in which most people -- not just landowners and city dwellers -- can count on being warm, dry, and well fed only really emerged in the nineteenth century, here and in the other industrialized nations. And we managed do things like fight World War II despite our abundance, suggesting that maybe complacency and apathy do not inevitably follow. Other civilizations never had an age of liberty. The idea that they all go through these stages is preposterous. I don't know who comes up with these wacky rants, but at least we can't blame poor old Alexander Fraser Tytler.

deerhound wrote:Did you have a cell phone when Reagan was President?

The LifeLine program was landlines at that time, cell phones were added by George Bush in 2008.

FYI:
the election is over.

chunkyfrog wrote:FYI:
the election is over.

Ok........... and?

The exasperation you show still doesn't address the train wreck that is fast approaching. FYI: You are going to rue the day you voted for the Statist.

Oh goshes! What's this? Someone DARES to even make reference to the greedy at the top of the heap who siphon off all the "gravy" and then blame it on the masses for looking for and accepting the "handouts" the greedy offer them. Pee on the peons, man can not live by bread alone, let them eat cake. Its always the little guys' fault when there's nothing left for the greedy to siphon off.

Sloop wrote:

chunkyfrog wrote:FYI:
the election is over.

Ok........... and?

The exasperation you show still doesn't address the train wreck that is fast approaching. FYI: You are going to rue the day you voted for the Statist.