Can Data Tell If I Have a Mask Problem?

Xney wrote:It sucks if you have to do the mask dance, but really without a proper fitting mask for your face, everything else is secondary.

note: some of the liners like pad-a-cheek have fixed a lot of people's problems with almost-fitting masks leaking. Sometimes it doesn't help.

Actually, I forgot to add that as an option for suggestion. I think I might go ahead and order a Pad-a-cheek liner (or one of the liners below). If the mask doesn't work out, I can always give the Pad-a-cheek for the MQ away to someone on the forum.

UPDATE 2:45pm ET: I just ordered the Pad-a-Cheek FFA Mask Liner from Karen. Looking for it to arrive by Monday. I'll work with the leaks until then.
Talking with my DME about the possibility of changing masks, too.
Also, still looking for suggestions on what to do if the mask liner doesn't stop the Large Leaks (please read previous post) on the Mirage Quattro.

Does anyone know if these liners are worth trying? They look like Remzzz's, but are from Quietus Liners on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Quietus-Liners-Su ... ric&sr=1-1

Char1ieJ wrote: And the benefits far outweigh a hundred dollar "loss" in a mask.

CJ, the point of my mask post is this:
You have to actually try it on your face, to know.
A small Quattro may fit you.....templates be damned.

Go w/PadACheek mask liner. The rest are a waste of $$.

Testing a mask for leaks, sitting up, is worthless.
My mask leaks like a sieve sitting up.
Lying down it is very comfortable.
You have to test the mask where and how it is
going to be used.

This is a very typical night for me.


When I was on my mask odyssey, I had the advantage of the Cpap Auction.
That got run out of town by the Big R.
If it would help, I have a UltraMirage med that will never be worn again.....
because it does not work. Let me know and it is on the way.

This is the quality of....and possibly your life.
Go the distance.

carbonman wrote:This is the quality of....and possibly your life.
Go the distance.

Carbonman,
I'm ashamed of myself now. I didn't go the distance last night. Got very frustrated and ended up cutting the machine off. Didn't sleep worth a crap anyway. ARGH!

Earlier in the evening... I used the tips mentioned in a previous post. Laid in my recliner, all the way back, and fitted the mask. Audible leaks and air blowing around my cheeks and left eye. Finally felt like I got the mask squared away, so I took it off in hopes all would go well when I went to bed.

The graph shows a long gap because I didn't get to bed until much later -- due to being on call at work.

Anyway, finally got to bed. Mask leaked like a sieve. I fiddled with it, and fiddled with it -- heard leaks, felt air in my eye, squealing at my cheeks, etc. Loosened and tightened. Moved and reseated. Adjusted and re-adjusted. I even made a makeshift chin strap, hoping that keeping my mouth closed would help. No go. I even wrapped the lower portion of mask in an ace bandage around my head. No audible leaks, but the mask was so tight that it was intolerable.

Finally had the thought that my 3 pound sledge hammer could "fix" the leakage once and for all. It was then that I decided to chill... take the mask off and try to relax. The rest of the night was spent in a semi-sleep with no BiPAP...

Here's the graph, such as it is.

+1 on pad-a-cheek liners

They have solved all of my major leak complaints on my Quattro FX... AND they feel nicer on my face than the cushion



any leaks that might be remaining are so minor that I can sleep with them and they do not affect my data.

CJ, let's get down too it.....
the recliner is not your bed.

carbonman wrote: You have to test the mask where and how it is
going to be used.

Just a SWAG on my part....anyone w/OSA should not be trying
to sleep, on their back, even in a recliner.
I would suggest that you work w/your mask, in bed, during the day
or when you have time, not when it is time to go to bed.....and having
that anxious feeling of having to get to sleep. I would not give up on your
chin strap/ace bandage fixes. Sometimes you just need some time to think
about stuff and re-ask the question, and solutions are found.
Patience and perseverance.

carbonman wrote:CJ, let's get down too it.....
the recliner is not your bed.
...
Just a SWAG on my part....anyone w/OSA should not be trying
to sleep, on their back, even in a recliner.
I would suggest that you work w/your mask, in bed, during the day
or when you have time, not when it is time to go to bed. ...

Carbonman,
I hear ya. But, I did it that way because of this suggestion:
"Only other thing I can suggest....fit the mask to pressure and sit and use it under pressure while watching TV or reading...don't go to sleep. That way you can be alert to any leaks. Do it for an hour or so then check the leak line."

I wasn't trying to sleep -- just fit the mask and use it under pressure while watching TV, etc. I get your point, though. My tests tonight will be IN THE BED, on my pillows, etc. I won't give up!

Carbonman,
I am partly to blame for the recliner thing. Thinking to try to get a baseline leak line (if we could) just to see if it is even possible.
Wanting to see if he found a "non leaky" position while watching TV and if the software still showed massive leaks then maybe something put together wrong on the mask.
Thinking if someone can't even get a minimal excess leak line while awake....gonna be kinda hard while asleep to get one.

Pugsy wrote:Carbonman,
I am partly to blame for the recliner thing. Thinking to try to get a baseline leak line (if we could) just to see if it is even possible.
Wanting to see if he found a "non leaky" position while watching TV and if the software still showed massive leaks then maybe something put together wrong on the mask.
Thinking if someone can't even get a minimal excess leak line while awake....gonna be kinda hard while asleep to get one.

Pugsy,
I think your suggestion was a good one. I tried. What do you think of the leak line in the first segment of the graph above? That was my test in the recliner.
I'll test again, IN THE BED, this evening before sleep time.

In the meantime, do YOU think this particular mask is salvageable for me?

You are asking the Queen of impatience if I think the mask is doable? I would have quit long ago with it. I make a decision after one night if something is going to work for me. Let me also clarify that with .....this is when I am experimenting and I have a fail safe option to fall back on. I got lucky when I started therapy and was able to totally use the mask that I decided I wanted to go with. I was not in your shoes and I had a DME who told me that I could try as many masks as I might need for a total of not 30 days but 60 days.
My experimenting was done with masks that I purchased back when the CPAP auction was around and I got cheap masks for $20 and $30 dollars....slightly used but for experiments they were perfect.

If you can't even get the mask to seal well so you can watch TV or read...there is something wrong. Fitting while awake should be the easiest to do.
Your 4 hour mark after the little bit of ramp and that short period where the leak was fairly stable right before the large spike...that was your best leak line and it was maybe 15 minutes??? Looks like a little less than 60 L/min and would be more inline with expected vent rate. You should be able to get that line while awake.

I would be moving on to Plan B in mask selection if it were me because if I couldn't even get 30 minutes of awake time with minimal leak around the expected vent rate something is wrong somewhere.
Your short time in the recliner...see that 3rd segment of use where the floats around and a little below the 60 line? That is your best awake leak line.

Pugsy wrote:Carbonman,I am partly to blame for the recliner thing.

Pugsy, there is no place for blame here.
We are all in this together.
Trying stuff.....this is not a one size fits all.
Throwing it against the wall and see what sticks.
It's a journey.

My process to find the right mask and self titration took
about 4mths. As I said in my Ode to Newbies, I cursed and
shed blood and bought Lansinoh at the drug store and "wasted"
money on masks that did not work and glued my mouth shut and
spent many frustrating nights fighting the leak demons.
It is all a rite of passage to your new life.

I'll see you on the road.

Last night, it was dang the leaks, full steam ahead!

So, I adjusted the mask as best I could, settled down and went to sleep. Intermittent sleep, but I managed to keep the mask on for 6 hrs 45 min -- leaks and all. You're gonna love the graph below. It's ridiculous. Nonetheless, I'm going to stay positive and keep moving forward. Awaiting on the arrival of a Swift FX nasal pillow -- gonna give it a try. And, I'm waiting for the last resort -- a Pad-a-Cheek mask liner from Karen. While I realize the PaC is not designed to stop leaks, a lot of people on the forum report it helping with leaks. IF it doesn't help, no loss. I think I'm going to trade the MQ for a PR ComfortGel Full anyway -- and the PaC I ordered works for both masks.

Here are a few observations, to go along with the graph. First, I had the mask adjusted with full pressure. When I started the machine, with ramp, last night there were no audible leaks. As the pressure increased, I started feeling air (as can be expected). I found that at my normal "full" pressure, my cheeks are blown out (not harshly). I noticed this because I started trying to nose breathe only, but when I relaxed, my mouth opened and cheeks blew out. Is that normal with a full face mask? Leaks, leaks, leaks... but I slept - cheeks out, dry mouth and all.

When you can't make something work, don't get down. Just remember... on your way to success, sometimes you have to learn what doesn't work as much as you have to learn what does. The ResMed Mirage Quattro is a fine mask. Comfortable and well made. It just might not be the one for my face (such as it is).

Here is last night's graph... go ahead and laugh, if you must.

CJ

I have a bi-pap with pressure of 21 inhalation and 15 exhalation..

My Quattro FX leaked like a monster across my left eye when at full pressure. Nothing I did stopped it. I cut my ramp time to zero to try & start with full pressure...

Got my pad-a-cheek liner about a week ago, I talked to Karen about cutting it to size to keep it away from my mouth, etc.... Got it all done and installed it.

That night I laid in bed for 20-30 minutes waiting for the usual leaks across my eye or the face farts at the chin to begin.

Nothing!!

I can't explain why it stopped my leaks, but I am thrilled that it did.

Dave

Denial Dave wrote:CJ
I have a bi-pap with pressure of 21 inhalation and 15 exhalation..
My Quattro FX leaked like a monster across my left eye when at full pressure. Nothing I did stopped it. I cut my ramp time to zero to try & start with full pressure...
Got my pad-a-cheek liner about a week ago, I talked to Karen about cutting it to size to keep it away from my mouth, etc.... Got it all done and installed it.
That night I laid in bed for 20-30 minutes waiting for the usual leaks across my eye or the face farts at the chin to begin.
Nothing!!

I can't explain why it stopped my leaks, but I am thrilled that it did.
Dave

Dave,
THANKS for the encouragement. I see my Pad-a-Cheek is on the way to me now. So, I'm hoping I have the same results. Other than the leaking, I really like the Mirage Quattro. We'll see if I have the same results in a few days. Anticipation... it's making me wait...

Char1ieJ wrote: I found that at my normal "full" pressure, my cheeks are blown out (not harshly). I noticed this because I started trying to nose breathe only,

Chipmunk cheeks...that's what we call it when air goes up the nose and tries to exit out (prematurely) through the mouth.
The tongue position (when properly placed) will act like a door and block the air from entering the mouth. Practice breathing through your nose with your tongue place in the roof of your mouth...this creates the door.
Easy to do while awake some sometimes not so easy to do when asleep as the tongue falls off the roof of the mouth.
Chipmunk cheeks can happen with any mask...nasal or nasal pillows or full face.

We have a small zoo....chipmunk cheeks and piggy nose in the cpap community.

I have learned that with the tongue in place I can open my mouth and do a big yawn when my mask and machine on and not have one bit of air escape into my mouth and out. The tongue trick, if it can be mastered, is pretty amazing. I have it so ingrained into my brain now that it takes real effort on my part to back it off so that air will enter my mouth and exit...like when I am wanting to mess with the dog and give him a burst of air.

I find it amazing that you can sleep at all with the amount of leak you are getting. Once we finally get you to not leak...you are going to sleep like a rock.

Pugsy wrote:I find it amazing that you can sleep at all with the amount of leak you are getting. Once we finally get you to not leak...you are going to sleep like a rock.

The tongue trick works for me too. Makes it so I can use a nasal mask or nasal pillows without fear of mouth breathing.

That leak rate is so high, it makes me wonder if there is a tear in the hose or something!

Pugsy - what is the minimum leak expected with that mask and that machine? Around 40?