Sour smell from ResMed - congestion

Hi All,

After some initial success, over the last week I have noticed a progressively stronger "sour" smell coming out of the ResMed Adapt ASV machine. The machine is new and works fine otherwise.

I have thoughly cleaned the nasal mask, hose and humidifier tank every day and sit them outside in fresh air to dry all day. I am using Control III disinfectant and an odorless dish detergent. When dried, the mask and hose have a neutral smell.

But at about 5AM after 4 hours of use, I get up for a bathroom break and when I put the mask back on the smell is overpowering. It permeates my nostrils all day and I am feeling congestion in my lungs and nose, like from smoking cigarattes or being around a wood stove all day.

I am thinking it might be a component in the machine heating up. Maybe the heater hose breaking in too, dunno. If so, the break-in is taking too long and smell is getting stronger.

Here is a recent thread:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=78027&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=sour

And here is a suggestion that may make sense from a poster:

"Most CPAP machines now are internally designed with a rubber-polyurethane carousel.
This carousel spins at high revolutions to sustain the CFM that expels from the machine.
If this internal carousel was not manufactured correctly it could cause the carousel to lightly
ride or rub on an internal solid plastic piece or wall of the machine.
At 1800+ revolutions per minute depending on your machine and CFM settings this can cause
friction and heat on the material causing it to slowly burn in a sense.
If this is the case - this can cause a toxicity to release into the hose and ultimately into the
lungs of the recipient or patient.
I would strongly consider if able that you get a whole new machine and toss the old one.
I am not a doctor and you should consult a physician and your insurance carrier.
Most insurance carrier's offer a new machine to recipients after 3-5 years with the same machine."

Anyone have similar problems and have them resolved? I would hate to send it back, be without, get another Adapt machine and have the same thing occur due to my lack of research...

Thanks.

Tom

Tom
It could also be acid reflux, I have had that a few times, and the smell is awful, but once I wash my mask out, its gone.
I would also not dry my equipment outside,... bugs, pollution, germs, dirt................... If you just sit it on a clean towel on your dresser or night stand it will be dry by bedtime.

The 'sour' smell definitely sounds like a possible reflux issue.
If the smell were more on the 'rotten' side, I would recommend you see your dentist.
Who knows, it might not help, but most of us are due anyway.

Thanks for the suggestions, Nan and Chunky -

I will dry things indoors then. I will also look into the reflux issue. Though, I have never had a problem with reflux unless it is hidden from me. Never woke up with stomach acid in my throat. Health is almost perfect now that I got a handle on this central apnea....


HOWEVER.... I just ran some tests looking for the sour smell. I have a friend who has an excellent nose. I had her sniff the air coming out of the machine motor port - no smell. I had her sniff the humidifier tank and hose... very SLIGHT sour smell. She sniffed the nasal mask... slight. but stronger sour smell.

So the machine seems OK.

Then I thought maybe it was the cleaning agents I used. The dishwashing detergent had neutral smell. Then I sniffed the Control III bottle. BINGO! We both agreed that this was the smell! I wonder if someone else can confirm this too?

Maybe the diluted Control III clings to the plastic or silicon. But I always rinsed everything very well after washing.

So this time I washed everything in vinegar and water and rinsed them with running water for 10 minutes and laid out to dry. I can barely smell the sour smell on the pieces now. Though, it is now stuck in my nostrils for the day cuz of last night's session.

I could be wrong, but if the sour smell goes away over the next few days, I will know it's the Control III.

T

Anytime I get that slight sour smell (which smells like dirty gym socks that sat too long in a pile), it's time to REALLY wash the hose, mask, and humidifier. It only happens rarely, but I have some suggestions that might help avoid repeats.

Here's how I clean the tank. First of all, use VERY soap. Dawn is an example. Strong enough to clean oil off birds, but also gentle enough for them. You want to use it in very warm water. Make suds with the soap and water.

Don't use a scrub brush or anything. Just use your fingers to wipe off the inner surface of the humidifier tank - if it opens. If it is closed, then use a little soapy water and shake it about to let the water and suds clean off anything that might be clinging.

Take apart the mask to clean all the parts and get into all the crevices.

Submerge the hose and use soapy water to shake about the soap suds in the hose. Don't forget to stop up the ends of the hose when you do this! (Yup. I did that before. Had a mess to clean up. I wasn't sleeping well, as you might imagine if I forgot something that simple!!)

Then it's time for the first rinse. Use very warm, clean water to rinse the tank, mask, and hose.

Now, the next rinse. Use a clean bucket (or other large container). Fill it with very warm water. Add a little bit of vinegar. Submerge the tank, hose and mask parts. Repeat as you did with the soapy water. Then rinse everything with very warm, clean tap water.

And the final rinse. Dump the vinegar water. Fill it with very warm water. Add a little bit of bleach. Not too much, just enough to make the water a little acidic. Again submerge the tank, hose and mask parts. Repeat as you did with the soapy and vinegar water. Then rinse everything with very warm, clean tap water.

Then, dry the hose, tank and mask parts as much as possible. Then let them air dry - COMPLETELY. You don't want moist parts going back on your machine. So, you need to do this early enough in the day.

Finally, change the filter on the ASV unit. Throw the old one away. Clean (wash) your hands between pulling out the old filter and putting the new filter into the unit.

This should COMPLETELY eliminate the bacteria from your system.

Now, we get down to how did that happen in the first place.

First of all, one thing I find is that the pressurized air seems to actually concentrate the smells that surround us. I laugh about it, but my wife can be cooking while I am taking a nap and I can smell EVERYTHING she is cooking ... even if I normally don't have that strong a sense of smell.

And of course, it's quite likely that your unit just picked up a little bit of bacteria from your bedroom. Don't be in a panic. We have bacteria all around us. Normally it's not an issue. But - as in this case - it can be a nuisance. And it's possible that some bacteria that are normally associated with your feet / socks / shoes ended up in the humidifier and hose/mask. It might have been due to a casual transfer. For example, after you took off your socks you might have carried your humidifier to fill it. The transfer might have been that simple.

If this reoccurs, you might want to (a) keep track of when you handle your humidifier, and (b) see if you need to re-position your ASV unit so the air intake points in another direction. It might be sucking up some bacteria laden dust that contributes to the smell. Let's face it, most of us have dust bunnies behind our side tables by our beds. It might just be pulling some dust from there.

Wow. A long answer. But I hope it helps.

Very interesting John - that post should be added to the archives.

OK, I will go through the triple cleaning process you described. I like the idea of using a water/bleach mix as the final rinse.

You described how bacteria might be picked up from the bedroom. That is quite possible. I am also wondering if running the humidifier AND the hose at 80% is contrbuting to a classic "warm, moist" environment that bacteria love to thrive in. Maybe if the hose and mask were using dry, 70F air, this would not occur as easily.

What gets me is I thoughly wash these items EVERY morning using Control III and warm soapy water. It's hard to accept they would still have a problem, but there ya go....

I still plan to eliminate the Control III, cuz it smells like the problem itself. And, I will follow to your suggestions.

Thanks as always!

Tom

I wouldn't use bleach in the final rinse. Just plain water. If you have nasty tap water, use bottled if needed but there isn't a need for distilled.

Bleach is anti-bacterial above some level that may not be too good for the plastic. The same is true for vinegar and alcohol and none of the 3 are recommended by the manufactures but lots of us use some combination. Vinegar is slightly anti-fungal and bleach and alcohol are not. I've been putting my mask in pure white vinegar for 10 minutes a week for at least 6 months. I then rinse it and then soak it in soapy water. I use palmolive dish soap because I've been using it for decades on my scuba mask and it hasn't seemed to damage it.

You can prevent the heating coils on your mask by just not twisting it all the way on.

I've also been thinking about rigging up a hose dryer. I'm thinking a box I can hang up somewhere and a computer fan, filter and transformer. I figure I can get an O2 injector and attach that to the box. I haven't done it yet.

I alternate between my masks and they have about 9 months use between the two of them.

Good luck.

Thanks for the info, Tim.

I imagine much depends on how diluted the mix is. If it were a straight mixture, vs: 1 part per million, etc. I'll have to give it some more thought.

The good news: No sour smell today! It was definately being generated from the Control III disinfectant. I suppose some folks get used to that smell, but it was rather offensive to me and stayed in my nose all day. After a full three step washing yesterday (without Control III) as John recommended, I detected no odor at all today.

Tim, I like your idea of using some air to dry the mask. I use a nasal mask that has a two rubber lip seal and between them is an area that is very hard to dry. I can imagine bacteria getting harbored there. I force water thru this area, but it takes all day to dry in still air, thus using an air blower.

Tom

-tim wrote:... I wouldn't use bleach in the final rinse. Just plain water. If you have nasty tap water, use bottled if needed but there isn't a need for distilled. ...

Tim, you are right that neither bleach nor vinegar should be used all the time. But when you've got that down deep sour smell it works wonders. So, I only use that as is needed - not all the time. Which means that in over 20 years of using xPAP therapy, I've only used it about four times.

Depending on the features of the xPAP device, reattaching everything, and letting it run for an hour or so sometimes works. Of course, these days most units recognize they are no longer attached to your face and turn themselves off after a minute or so.

JohnBFisher wrote: Depending on the features of the xPAP device, reattaching everything, and letting it run for an hour or so sometimes works. Of course, these days most units recognize they are no longer attached to your face and turn themselves off after a minute or so.

I abuse the mask-fit feature on the S9 Autoset, which runs for a few minutes at the maximum prescribed pressure before shutting off. That blows all the water out which is going to come out and just leaves a few small drops which can air dry within a few hours.

this units have silicone rubber that holds the motor in place as well as slicone rubber in the bottom of the humidifier lid

these have been poorly made and will often gas off emitting an oily substance that smells like cheap candles, remove the silicone rubber from the bottom of the humidifier and smell it. to clean it soak it for 24 to 48 hours in 99 percent isopropl alcohol then rince under cold water and let air dry.. to do this to the inside parts you have to have someone that is familiar with servicing electronic equipment , there are 3 silicne rubber pieces in the blower that also gas and oil off. clean the same way. i like to tripple soak them,and soak the plastic housing as well . you may also fill the blower motor once you remove it from the plastic housing with isopropl alcohol 99 percent NO WATER just make sure you give it a few days to evaporate or else boom! you can also fill you hose with isopropl alc. and let sit for a day then drain and flush with water, and again let dry..once cleaned they will not have any smell and they will become a bright white .. good luck ...

vicpete wrote:this units have silicone rubber that holds the motor in place as well as slicone rubber in the bottom of the humidifier lid

these have been poorly made and will often gas off emitting an oily substance that smells like cheap candles, remove the silicone rubber from the bottom of the humidifier and smell it. to clean it soak it for 24 to 48 hours in 99 percent isopropl alcohol then rince under cold water and let air dry.. to do this to the inside parts you have to have someone that is familiar with servicing electronic equipment , there are 3 silicne rubber pieces in the blower that also gas and oil off. clean the same way. i like to tripple soak them,and soak the plastic housing as well . you may also fill the blower motor once you remove it from the plastic housing with isopropl alcohol 99 percent NO WATER just make sure you give it a few days to evaporate or else boom! you can also fill you hose with isopropl alc. and let sit for a day then drain and flush with water, and again let dry..once cleaned they will not have any smell and they will become a bright white .. good luck ...

THE PRECEDING POST IS OF QUESTIONABLE ACCURACY.
DO NOT DO THIS.
IT MAY SERIOUSLY DAMAGE PARTS OF YOUR MACHINE

vicpete wrote:this units have silicone rubber that holds the motor in place as well as slicone rubber in the bottom of the humidifier lid

these have been poorly made and will often gas off emitting an oily substance that smells like cheap candles, remove the silicone rubber from the bottom of the humidifier and smell it. to clean it soak it for 24 to 48 hours in 99 percent isopropl alcohol then rince under cold water and let air dry.. to do this to the inside parts you have to have someone that is familiar with servicing electronic equipment , there are 3 silicne rubber pieces in the blower that also gas and oil off. clean the same way. i like to tripple soak them,and soak the plastic housing as well . you may also fill the blower motor once you remove it from the plastic housing with isopropl alcohol 99 percent NO WATER just make sure you give it a few days to evaporate or else boom! you can also fill you hose with isopropl alc. and let sit for a day then drain and flush with water, and again let dry..once cleaned they will not have any smell and they will become a bright white .. good luck ...

chunkyfrog wrote:

vicpete wrote:this units have silicone rubber that holds the motor in place as well as slicone rubber in the bottom of the humidifier lid

these have been poorly made and will often gas off emitting an oily substance that smells like cheap candles, remove the silicone rubber from the bottom of the humidifier and smell it. to clean it soak it for 24 to 48 hours in 99 percent isopropl alcohol then rince under cold water and let air dry.. to do this to the inside parts you have to have someone that is familiar with servicing electronic equipment , there are 3 silicne rubber pieces in the blower that also gas and oil off. clean the same way. i like to tripple soak them,and soak the plastic housing as well . you may also fill the blower motor once you remove it from the plastic housing with isopropl alcohol 99 percent NO WATER just make sure you give it a few days to evaporate or else boom! you can also fill you hose with isopropl alc. and let sit for a day then drain and flush with water, and again let dry..once cleaned they will not have any smell and they will become a bright white .. good luck ...

THE PRECEDING POST IS OF QUESTIONABLE ACCURACY.
DO NOT DO THIS.
IT MAY SERIOUSLY DAMAGE PARTS OF YOUR MACHINE

Not to mention the typos, or the fact that you will be without your machine for several days. Finally, inhaling large amounts of isopropyl alcohol may seriously damage large parts of your body.