Sleeping with élan

Suzjohnson · Post by **Suzjohnson** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:21 am

chunkyfrog wrote:Another successful night; leaks at just a tad over 10--a decent number, but some air in my eyes.
Wearing swim goggles worked for a little bit, but they tend to cause more problems than they solve,
as they push into the mask, due to their bulky frames--(maybe a bubble style would be better)
I found myself fidgeting with the headgear from time to time during the night,
and have come to the conclusion it needs a vertical adjustment, or a smaller size.
I think making a headgear from scratch might work better, maybe something like Bella loops.
Wouldn't that be --(wait for it)--awesome?
I'm also tempted to reduce my EPR from the current 3 to help maintain more even inflation.
It's logical to me that a fabric mask would be more reactive to pressure fluctuations.
(but I'm no engineer; I just draw stuff for them)

I was just trying to picture myself with chinstrap, blue painters tape, swim goggles AND the mask on... I so don't think so! I hope you're just doing this as a scientific/engineering experiment. Yep, it would be awesome and I am confident that if anyone could make this work, dear lady, it will be you! Bless your clever, persevering heart.

Suz

xenablue · Post by **xenablue** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:33 am

OMG chunkyfrog - what a visual you paint!!

I just hate that leaking into my eyes from the SW - it's like fierce pinpoint beams of air

Yes, I think the Bella Loops might be a good start for a headgear modification for the élan. Glad I have a few months yet to decide between the Aloha and the élan though - right now it's a 50/50.

Keep the great reports coming and nice job on the low leaks.

Cheers,
xena

Tip10 · Post by **Tip10** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:34 pm

My Elan came in the mail yesterday -- I'll probably give it a first try over the weekend. I'll let you all know how it goes.
On the other subject -- leaks were back down in the 1.5 range with the new SW last night again -- I suspect that one night was an aberration. Looks like the new one will continue for me and improve on where the old one was. I seem to be one of those few folks who don't have leak issues with a SW.

hzjpmp · Post by **hzjpmp** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:39 pm

I too am trying the Elan.

My leak is higher... 15-20 the nights I have used it. Which is odd because it appears to leak like a sieve around the bridge of my nose, right into my eyes. I tried both the large and regular sizes (it comes with both) and they both leak a lot around the top of the nose.

I agree, a different strap might solve it. I am going to fiddle with it over the weekend. If I can't work it out, I will return it and go back to my Mirage Activa. My leak is lower with that, my AHI lower but it isn't as comfortable with the plastic frame.

Later this year I might try a Swift FX if the Elan is a no-go.

Walter

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:23 pm

I was surprised my leak numbers were so low, as the sensation of air blowing seemed to be more.
That is why I tried the goggles.
Apparently, the leakage occurred mostly while I was conscious, or getting that way.
The quietness is nice--no face farts.

jen4700 · Post by **jen4700** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:26 pm

I ordered one from cpap.com. They have $0 return insurance right now. Not sure how long that is going to last.

Tip10 · Post by **Tip10** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:35 pm

The $0 return insurance has been that way on the SW for as long as I can remember -- I bought my first SW over a year ago and it was that way.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:15 pm

Another note I should make while I am reporting on my experience with the élan:
I wear a small size in nearly everything CPAP, except for the Mirage Micro and every Resmed
full face I've tried--the smalls run about a half size too large for me, with the next size down
(if available) is too small. The swivel was not the only feature that intrigued me; but also the
fact that there was an additional size, on a modification of a one-size-fits-all mask.
I am happy to report that the regular fits me ; and now I need to work on leak-tweaking.
Since my APAP range barely encompasses my reported pressures, reducing my EPR will be the first step,
along with using the tether, as my nose leakage has occurred when I suspect the flex hose had drifted downward.
Wish me luck.

user from Singapore · Post by **user from Singapore** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:37 am

xenablue wrote:OMG chunkyfrog - what a visual you paint!!

Something like this?

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:23 am

Third night:
Leak 20.0; AHI 0.7, still all "centrals"--probably arousal disturbance related.
In spite of the tether, there was a lot of re-seating to do.
The tether was of little help, but still a good idea; it held the top portion of the mask in,
but pulled the top strap forward several times, reducing its effectiveness.
I may need to Lab Rat my own headgear and tether, as this headgear is quite a bit too large and stiff for me;
(shut up, guys!) --beyond the point where adjustment will make it fit,
I assume that laundering the headgear will make it softer,
but I have other materials handy, and I am feeling the creative juices welling up.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:26 am

@userfromSingapore: Uncanny!
--but why the fins? I would have worn a pair of cute boy shorts instead.

Suzjohnson · Post by **Suzjohnson** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:29 am

user from Singapore wrote:
xenablue wrote:OMG chunkyfrog - what a visual you paint!!

Something like this?

Yeah, just about like that! Someone needs to photoshop in some blue painters tape. Oh my... Too cute!

Suz

millich · Post by **millich** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:47 pm

Securing the tubing to the top of the headgear completely solved the leaking into my eyes issue with the Elan!

The only thing I haven't figured out with the Elan is where is the non-rebreathing valve? How does that work?

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:40 pm

Non-rebreathing vents are the little double row of ten tiny holes in the fabric about an inch above the label.
They vent C02 out so you don't inhale it over and over.
If you are looking for an anti-asphyxia valve, those are only required on masks that cover the mouth as well as nose.

avi123 · Post by **avi123** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:57 pm

There was a question above about the material that comes in contact with the skin. Here is a copy of my post from the competing thread:

David Groll's FDA Submission letter for the SleepWeaver Elan

The mask features a cloth cushion made of polyester fabric with a polyester/lycra/nylon interface material. The mask exhalation feature is incorporated into the cloth cushion. Attached to the cushion is an L-shaped 22-mm tubing swivel connector that can rotate 3600. The tubing connector can be detached by unscrewing the nut off the threaded connector for ease of cleaning and cushion replacement. The cloth headgear is connected to the mask through slots in the cushion wings. The headgear is removable for ease of cleaning and replacement.

The SleepWeaver elan Nasal CPAP Mask also offers two optional accessories, the Feather Weight tube and the tether strap. The Feather Weight tube is an 18" plastic home-use only extension tube to improve flexibility at the mask connection point. The tether strap, when used, keeps the tubing from resting on the patient's head while he/she sleeps.

Comment,

From the above it seems that the cushion's material in contact with the skin is nylon. Polyester is the rigid cushion part and the Lycra is the stretchabe part. I wonder if Nylon is as biocompatible as Silicone for touching the skin?

Otherwise, the Elan's configuration is similar to my mask, the Activa, Respironics Blues, etc.

Could any user post graphs of leaks?

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