Continuation of Zeo Conversation

So do you know what the 7 different freqencies mean yet? I know you will. Does this help you decifer the REM onset? Keep in mind I don't have mine right now so I have to pester you.

MaxDarkside wrote:I got my Serial->USB cable and flat serial connector parts, put it together, plugged it into my Zeo ...

Far out! Good job, Max!

Like Liz said, why don't you gather your real-time info up and start a new thread?

Jay

After wearing my Zeo headband awake for many hours in real-time, then sleeping 5.5 hours, I would say the bulk of what you need to know can be gotten from the data capable CPAP machine and SleepyHead, pulse oximeter and the Zeo Bedside or Mobile 5 min bar charts. The real-time data is interesting but requires pretty sophisticated analysis to get more information out of it. I probably will stream the data into our analysis software (sorta like SleepyHead on steroids) and see what I can do with it, but it will be a while as I need to focus a bit less on my sleep concerns and more on my customers for a while .

OK, but before you go, do you have any of the other tetrad of N., especially cataplexy (cataplexy is often the "deal-maker" in N.). Gonna get a lab test (HLA-DQB)?

deltadave wrote:OK, but before you go, do you have any of the other tetrad of N., especially cataplexy (cataplexy is often the "deal-maker" in N.). Gonna get a lab test (HLA-DQB)?

I won't go too far No, I don't have cataplexy. I did have sleep-onset-REM again last night, tho brief. My Neurologist's nurse agrees with your suspicion and I may call them to get some tests as soon as I'm convinced. The main symptoms are sleep-onset-REM and daytime grog. Thanks for pointing that out, DeltaDave.

Well, I finally got around to writing a ZEO csv importer for SleepyHead.. It's currently in GIT waiting for any advanced testers to build it and try it.. (and will be in 0.9.2 build)

Right now it just shows sleep stage as a square plot 2D line chart... I'll make a nice custom color coded barchart for it later..

There is a separate menu option for now, File->Import ZEO Data, which takes one CSV file as input.. Later on I'll make it scan all CSV files under a ZEO directory using the normal importer..

It only has to import sessions once, like everything else, so if the csv file is updated with more session data, you can safely import it again..

It's only got 1 minute starting time alignment, and the stages are in 30 second increments.. So it's not super accurate sync wise..

To complicate this further is CPAP clock drift.. I'll add a preference to allow you to manually set the drift time (and an easy way of purging Zeo data for experimenting with it to find the clock drift) Maybe the oximeter trick will work to get better sync?

I do have an unencrypted .dat file to play with too.. Hopefully I can make it import brainwave data next..
But I'll wait till I'm a little less foggy for that one.. (I've got to read the docs..)

Cool!

jedimark wrote:Hopefully I can make it import brainwave data next.

The Zeo does not offer the brainwave data directly, other than a serial stream if you have a serial cable, which they don't sell, one has to make and one has to decode the stream. To get a file at this stage, you have to use a 3rd party software tool, such as ZeoScope. It creates session files with the data in a binary format, but the source code is available for ZeoScope in C# / Visual Studio so one would know the format. I'm not sure that ZeoScope is the defacto standard for writing the data and I think the user base is pretty small with respect to this community, and the data is sampled at a fairly high frequency. Sooo... in summary, the effort / value of the brainwave data might not be worth it at this point. Just my thinking at the moment.

MaxDarkside wrote:Cool!

jedimark wrote:Hopefully I can make it import brainwave data next.

The Zeo does not offer the brainwave data directly, other than a serial stream if you have a serial cable, which they don't sell, one has to make and one has to decode the stream. To get a file at this stage, you have to use a 3rd party software tool, such as ZeoScope. It creates session files with the data in a binary format, but the source code is available for ZeoScope in C# / Visual Studio so one would know the format. I'm not sure that ZeoScope is the defacto standard for writing the data and I think the user base is pretty small with respect to this community, and the data is sampled at a fairly high frequency. Sooo... in summary, the effort / value of the brainwave data might not be worth it at this point. Just my thinking at the moment.

Serial stuff is fun

What's recorded in the .DAT files? (on the zeo's SD card)

jedimark wrote:Serial stuff is fun

Heh...

What's recorded in the .DAT files? (on the zeo's SD card)

Not sure, myself. The DAT files are encrypted unless the user has installed "unsupported" but provided by Zeo firmware that causes the Zeo to write unencrypted DAT files. There's a python decoder viewer available here that reads the unencrypted DAT files and displays merely the 5 min bar chart, tho I think 30s sleep stages are in the DAT file too:
http://zeodecoderview.sourceforge.net/

I would say that importing the 30s sleep stages from one of the columns in the CSV that is downloaded from the web would be sufficient to start.

MaxDarkSide,

Curiosity makes me ask: Can you record that real time data to go through it later on? If so, how?

I'm asking because hubby has a long standing interested in sleep stages based on some numerical analysis work he did as a postdoc once upon a time. And he's chomping at the bit to get "real" data instead of just the 30-second and 5-minute increment "sleep stage" data that I can currently download from the zeo website.

robysue wrote:Curiosity makes me ask: Can you record that real time data to go through it later on? If so, how?

Technically yes, by that I mean the ZeoScope stores it to disk, but um, in Binary format and you can reload it later back into ZeoScope. I don't see an export function. However, if your hubby can read C# code and can program, he may be able to figure out the binary format and convert it into something else suitable for loading it into other software.

jedimark wrote:Well, I finally got around to writing a ZEO csv importer for SleepyHead.. It's currently in GIT waiting for any advanced testers to build it and try it.. (and will be in 0.9.2 build)

Can't wait to see it in action.

I'd volunteer to be one of those "advanced testers", but I'm just not up to snuff any more in dealing with GIT stuff. *sigh*

I do have an unencrypted .dat file to play with too.. Hopefully I can make it import brainwave data next..
But I'll wait till I'm a little less foggy for that one.. (I've got to read the docs..)

That would be wonderful. But it clearly will take time. For now, take care of yourself and work on getting some well deserved sleep!

what's on the .DAT file?

Max, didn't you update your Zeo firmware to v2.6.3R to get the real time data? If so, the way I read it, your data is now unencrypted and you should be able to read it with notepad or similar, same as with the v2.6.3O used with the viewer. I'm pretty sure, without going back to look, the notes said either firmware would work for the viewer and both provided unencrypted data.

Jay

Jay Aitchsee wrote:Max, didn't you update your Zeo firmware to v2.6.3R to get the real time data?

Yes

If so, the way I read it, your data is now unencrypted and you should be able to read it with notepad or similar, same as with the v2.6.3O used with the viewer. I'm pretty sure, without going back to look, the notes said either firmware would work for the viewer and both provided unencrypted data

Yes, either firmware will cause the Zeo to write unencrypted data to the SD card. However, "unencrypted" does not mean "plain text". It is still a binary file, with lots of squiggly characters inside and you would need to use the format definitions of what is in that file, probably looking at a sample project in Python; ZeoDecoder (http://zeodecoderview.sourceforge.net/). If SleepyHead / Mark used that file to import into SleepyHead, the users would then have to change their firmware to a "non supported" version (v2.6.3R or v2.6.3O) while the same data is also available from the web without users tampering with their machines and also available to both Bedside and Mobile users, I think. That is what I would suggest if one wanted to get the 30 second sleep stages into SleepyHead. Not my product, but is my humble view.

jedimark wrote:To complicate this further is CPAP clock drift.. I'll add a preference to allow you to manually set the drift time (and an easy way of purging Zeo data for experimenting with it to find the clock drift) Maybe the oximeter trick will work to get better sync?

My Zeo has the worst slew of all the timesources that I deal with. I know, NTP is spoiling me, but my Zeo is awful about it, on the order of a few seconds per day, and so every few days I adjust the clock. This is why in the test stream I sent you, I pushed the snooze button at the same time as I started my machine. That event is sent over serial, but it is lost in the simple methods of obtaining CSV output (the reported snoozes relate to a given alarm, not a pre-alarm snooze). It may be stored in the .DAT file, but I haven't gone digging for it.