Sweet Dreams...

I'm not sure that this is proven in research, Dori. But personally years ago, before I was diagnosed, I would literally wake up in the morning feeling like I'd been up all night watching movies. I have a very high RDI in REM...

DoriC wrote:So is anyone saying that dropping back on pressure that may not be optimal may produce dreams that you're remembering but in reality you're being aroused by inadequate therapy?

That's what I'd say.

Out of many discussion topics about dreaming, here's one I thought especially interesting - lots of pros/cons, food for thought, and some fun "cow" humor along the way:
Dec 20, 2009 subject: Remembering dreams
viewtopic.php?p=431245#p431245

More "dream" discussions:
LINKS to dreaming - dreams - REM rebound
viewtopic.php?t=3524

Maybe you are just more relaxed and less stressed, especially as Obamas approval ratings are so low

Uncle_Bob wrote:Maybe you are just more relaxed and less stressed, especially as Obamas approval ratings are so low

I hear the terrorists backed off of their plans yesterday because he's taking himself out...

DoriC wrote:So is anyone saying that dropping back on pressure that may not be optimal may produce dreams that you're remembering but in reality you're being aroused by inadequate therapy?

Yes, I guess that is what I am saying.

To put it in other words, forget CPAP and sleep apnea. Take a normal breather and sleeper with a big airway. If he sleeps well, he dreams much of the night but doesn't remember it.

Now let's say something happens like an upset stomach or a fever or a hotel room beside the ice machine during Mardi Gras. He gets awakened many times during the night and the next morning he can remember having many dreams.

I read some science on this when I was first diagnosed five years ago. It claims if you sleep soundly you won't remember many dreams. If you have frequent arousals you will remember the dreams. This certainly seems to be true in my case regardless of the source of arousals.

I think REM rebound gets confused with this phenomonem in sleep forums. I think some people have been told they are having REM rebound and it will eventually go away when in truth they are having normal dreaming/normal REM but many arousals.

As for the science I read, sorry but I can't give you references. It was likely in Dement's book or the book by that other sleep doc from Albuquerqee ... Albuequrqee ... Albucurkie .... NEW MEXICO!

BTW, I always thought Bill Cowher would be a good poster child for large airway.



He has a broad chin and long cheekbones.

DoriC, I have always liked reading your posts and hearing about your good work with Mike.

Thanks V, I try to help with my own perspective on certain things I observe happening while my husband and all of you are sleeping, since I'm the one doing the "spying" on him. (Not all the time but enough!).

I couple of nights ago I thought I spent most of the night awake lying in bed trying to get to sleep*, but at one point I woke from a very vivid dream. The dream was that I was lying in bed all night long trying to get to sleep. Arrgghh. Two nights of insomnia for the price of one .

That's the first time I can remember having such a self-referential dream, which is why I remember anything about it.

* By necessity.

SleepingUgly wrote:I'm not sure that this is proven in research, Dori. But personally years ago, before I was diagnosed, I would literally wake up in the morning feeling like I'd been up all night watching movies. I have a very high RDI in REM...

as a newbie on CPAP for a month Ive noticed that I am waking up several times in the night and remembering a lot more details of the dreams, rather than just maybe one detail on the final waking. I am actually hoping to get the sleep thing good enough so that I can afford to rouse and take notes, for dream analysis. as it is, it's seize the day, or rather , night. I'll get the data off this locked up machine tomorrow. while I am here, thanks for the poster in another thread to gave the other 2nd hand machine site (http://www.secondwindcpap.com/). they responded to my prescription enquiry quite promplty. hurry whilst its still there and remember, THINK! it's not illegal yet!

Carpe PM ... seize the night!

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LinkC wrote:Carpe PM ... seize the night!

Forget waterboarding. .LinC's razor-sharp puns could be used to make terrorist captives talk.


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Don't SDB-free children have—and remember—vivid dreams? .I certainly remember mine as a child.


Hmmm . . . . If xPAP is widely adopted by adults around the world, won't Freudian Dream Analysis cease to exist?

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Mike6977 wrote:Don't SDB-free children have—and remember—vivid dreams? .I certainly remember mine as a child.

1. How do you know you were SDB-free as a child? After diagnosis at age 57 and self-education, I recognized clear symptoms I had in my early twenties and suspect I have had OSA all my life. Many others have posted similar comments here.

2. You could have been having arousals as a child that were caused by a variety of reasons besides a breathing disorder.

Now I'm really confused about the dreaming issue!

So, those of you with great numbers, do you dream more....or less?

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Resister wrote:So, those of you with great numbers, do you dream more....or less?

Less. .No dreams I can remember.

VVV wrote:1. How do you know you were SDB-free as a child?

Without a sleep study, I guess I don't know for sure. .Just assumed most skinny, active kids of five to twelve didn't have SDB.

VVV wrote:2. You could have been having arousals as a child that were caused by a variety of reasons besides a breathing disorder.

True. .After a nightmare (like, say, the serial killer hiding in my closet), clear reason to wake-up. .But I usually slept through the night like a baby, far as I remember, anyway.

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Resister wrote:Now I'm really confused about the dreaming issue!

So, those of you with great numbers, do you dream more....or less?

First of all, when you ask "do you dream more...or less" you have to take into consideration there's a BIG DIFFERENCE between these two things:

1. Actually having dreams during the night. If you sleep peacefully through them, you could very well wake up in the morning thinking "I didn't dream at all last night!"

2. Being aware of having had a dream or dreams. If something waked you up during a dream, and you were awakened long enough to be aware of having just then been dreaming, you might very well commit that fact to memory and wake up in the morning thinking, "I dreamed last night!" whether you remember vivid details or just have a vague wispy recollection of having dreamt.

I rarely "remember" dreaming, although I assume I have normal amounts of REM (dreaming sleep) every night. I do have "great numbers"...very low AHI when using cpap.

My assumption that I am dreaming every night, even though I generally never remember having dreamt at all, is based on what three nights of PSG sleep study showed about my sleep. Three consecutive nights of PSG sleep studies. One night diagnostic PSG, one night of PSG titration, and one night having my autopap do the titrating but with PSG equipment monitoring.

The three PSG studies showed REM occurring for me, in its usual cycle times and lengths of time.

But when I woke up each morning after the study, I was not aware of having dreamt, nor did I remember any dreams at all.

If anyone had asked, "Did you dream last night?" I'd have answered "No." But the PSG showed I did.

The question really is better phrased, "Do you remember dreaming?"
Or, "Do you remember having dreamed when your your numbers are great?
My answer would still be "No." Unless an alarm clock or something else (dog barking) other than "apnea" happens to wake me from REM.

But I did have dreams (presumably, since REM was showing up regularly on the PSG.) I just didn't remember them...not even on the diagnostic night when I was having arousals from apneas hitting me during REM. The arousals apparently did not last long enough for my brain to commit the fact of "dreaming" into memory.

Each person is different, and since dreaming can occur in every sleep stage (the most vivid dreaming is thought to happen in REM, and REM happens to be when most people with OSA are hit by apneas) people drifting in and out of sleep or waking during other stages of sleep than REM, can be aware of "Hmmm, I was having a dream just then."

Or, as -SWS (a very smart cpaptalk poster) has said, perhaps for some people the memory of a dream (or of having had a dream) might even make it from the subconscious to the conscious mind without a wakeup during the dream. I'm not that perceptive. Or don't have that good a set of memory cells/neural connections. I hardly ever have even the vaguest recollection of "having dreamed" -- which suits me fine.

JointPain wrote:I couple of nights ago I thought I spent most of the night awake lying in bed trying to get to sleep*, but at one point I woke from a very vivid dream. The dream was that I was lying in bed all night long trying to get to sleep. Arrgghh. Two nights of insomnia for the price of one .

That's the first time I can remember having such a self-referential dream, which is why I remember anything about it.

* By necessity.

Sounds like the movie Inception, I guess you are ok as long as you do not go to having a dream within and a dream within a dream within a dream. Then you're hosed! Oh wait, you're already are hosed. Nevermind.