Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

NotMuffy · Post by **NotMuffy** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:43 am

About two-thirds (2/3) of stroke survivors have sleep-disordered breathing (SDB).

Although equally interesting was that

No SBD was present in the non-survivors.

NotMuffy · Post by **NotMuffy** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:45 am

NotMuffy wrote:
About two-thirds (2/3) of stroke survivors have sleep-disordered breathing (SDB).
Although equally interesting was that

No SBD was present in the non-survivors.

Because clearly,

No B was present in the non-survivors.

cyklopps · Post by **cyklopps** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:04 am

Notmuffy: Have you ever seen numbers on percentage of people over 50 if tested are found to have Sleep Apnea. If you tested a few hundred people off the street in that age group, I have heard the rate may be 40 or 50% with the higher numbers being at the older end of the scale. But I do not really know if that is true. Do you know? Phil

NotMuffy · Post by **NotMuffy** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:34 am

cyklopps wrote:Notmuffy: Have you ever seen numbers on percentage of people over 50 if tested are found to have Sleep Apnea. If you tested a few hundred people off the street in that age group, I have heard the rate may be 40 or 50% with the higher numbers being at the older end of the scale. But I do not really know if that is true. Do you know? Phil

http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/conte ... /157/1/144

And I'll give you one freebie that may speak to your point:

http://err.ersjournals.com/content/16/106/203.full

DoriC · Post by **DoriC** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:05 am

Even if SDB mortality risk declines in the elderly ?,there is the quality of life to be measured. Untreated OSA is so debilitating in terms of loss of daytime energy and the need for naps, mood changes, restlessness, snoring, arousals, bathroom breaks,etc. These symptoms in my husband did not all start at once but there was a gradual decline that greatly impacted our lives. Since cpap therapy began he may have gotten older in birthdays but his attitude has changed and he is enjoying his life so much more and looks forward to each new day.

kempo · Post by **kempo** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:11 am

cyklopps wrote:It must go without saying from a few recent posts that many on this forum never ever eat too much, exercise too little, chat on a cell phone while driving, exceed posted speed limits, much less participates in any risky sport. Risks that could kill us are all around and we all pick and choose. Phil

Yes we all take risks as a matter of fact as I look back over my life I got a thrill out of living on the "edge". Last year when I found out I had OSA I thought man I don't want to do this. I found this forum and obsorbed as much information as I could from the forum members. I decided I would jump in with both feet for a good 6 months just to see what would happen.

After using the xpap for 9 months I can honestly say I enjoy using it. Putting on the mask is a relaxing thought for me. Like sipping a fine wine.

Cy, give it a try with a positive attitude. You just might enjoy using it.

My question to you is why would you not try it? What are you afraid of?

cyklopps · Post by **cyklopps** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:07 am

Thanks NotMuffy, Those were good articles. Phil

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:20 am

ever eat too much, exercise too little, chat on a cell phone while driving, exceed posted speed limits, much less participates in any risky sport. Risks that could kill us are all around and we all pick and choose. Phil

Each of those risks give us an immediate reward. Sports, driving fast raise our adrenalin which gives us a huge feel good boost, sports also help us keep in shape. Good food gives us endomorphs which make us feel good and comforted.
What does not using cpap give you? Nothing, unless the risk of getting a stroke and making your wife's life miserable gives you a rush. A simple preventative practice sort of like brushing your teeth, which you do while you sleep anyway, that will lower your risk of strokes, heart attack, diabetes, erectile dysfunction and possibly cancer. What is the benefit of not using it?

Drowsy Dancer · Post by **Drowsy Dancer** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:43 am

DoriC wrote:<snip>BTW, I just noticed your statistics, you're 6'0 and 150lbs? I'm not a doctor but I think you're underweight.

Those numbers caught my eye too, Dori. I am also not a doctor but NIH's calculator http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/ calculates a BMI for this height and weight as 20.3--definitely in the healthy range, in fairness to Phil. To give the Devil his due

I still think he's foolish to reject CPAP therapy given the medical evidence, but he's free to die like a man.

DD

newhosehead · Post by **newhosehead** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:04 am

cyklopps wrote:Here are some thoughts from someone new to this forum. I have been diagnosed with moderate to severe sleep apnea. But I unlike many on this forum, I feel fine and have no symptoms other than loud snoring which my wife tolerates. I dread the thought of lying in bed nightly looking like a military fighter pilot with a machine humming by my side; never again able to enjoy the night smells or my wife's garden in the morning.
I know life is full of risks and trade offs especially in medicine. If it were not for my fear of stroke or hear attack I would not treat my problem.
I also have a degree of skepticism about such a relatively new disease that huge numbers of us now have. My cardiologist brother in law tells me with a twinkle in his eye that he has never sent a patient for a sleep study that has come back negative. Yet I know he is concerned. But medicine is full of fads that come and go over the years. Anyone here who has ever see the movie "The Road to Wellsville" with Anthony Hopkins knows what I am talking about!
So how strong is the data on heart attacks or strokes for an otherwise healthy 64 year old with untreated sleep apnea? Has there been enough study of risks for different kinds of patients that I might enable me to do a personal risk assessment and decide what CPAP might be worth to me in terms of longevity verses quality of life.
Finally, I would enjoy hearing from others who like me have ponderd this issue how you arrived at an answer. Phil

I am going to go out a limb here and respond to your original post. I do understand your skepticism to some degree. I have been alive long enough to see plenty of fads come and go in medicine. I suppose it is easier to be skeptical when you do not have the symptoms that so many of us had. Frankly, I was thrilled to have the diagnoses and when my doctor (a neurologist) told me, he said something I have not forgotten.He talked about the kind of issues he dealt with on a daily basis, issues he was not going to be able to do a lot about. He said he actually enjoyed prescribing cpap, because he KNEW I had the opportunity to feel so much better. He was right. I do.
Do I struggle with it? You betcha. Some nights I want to toss the whole thing out the window. Something you said did catch my attention. You know, you can smell the night smells before you mask up. You arent going to smell them while you are asleep anyway. As for your wife's garden, take the mask off when you wake up. Simple. Obviously, it IS your decision. However, since you said you were diagnosed with moderate to severe OSA, I would consider perhaps how fortunate you are to have caught this BEFORE you feel as though life is not worth living. Best of luck to you in making your decision.

Jeanette

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:33 pm

Another thing sleep deprivation causes is psychosis and the in ability to make judgment calls.

Here are some studies done on sleep deprivation in business, medicine and military

From Sustained Reduced Sleep Can have Serious Consequences:

In a study on the effects of sleep deprivation, investigators at the University of Pennsylvania found that subjects who slept four to six hours a night for fourteen consecutive nights showed significant deficits in cognitive performance equivalent to going without sleep for up to three days in a row. Yet these subjects reported feeling only slightly sleepy and were unaware of how impaired they were

Throughout the 36 hours, their ability to accurately derive range, bearing, elevation, and charge was unimpaired. However, after circa 24 hours they … no longer knew where they were relative to friendly and enemy units. They no longer knew what they were firing at. Early in the simulation, when we called for simulated fire on a hospital, etc., the team would check the situation map, appreciate the nature of the target, and refuse the request. Later on in the simulation … they would fire without hesitation regardless of the nature of the target.
…

So many of your issues can be because your brain is not firing on all cylinders.

For many of us the ability to think, evaluate and absorb new materials increased dramatically once we were breathing.

roster · Post by **roster** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:36 pm

cy, You have it backwards.

cyklopps wrote:It must go without saying from a few recent posts that many on this forum never ever eat too much, exercise too little, chat on a cell phone while driving, exceed posted speed limits, much less participates in any risky sport. Risks that could kill us are all around and we all pick and choose. Phil

Hell, I do all of those and that is why I use CPAP: so I can continue for a few more years to get up every morning and eat too much, excercise too little (correction: too much), phone while driving too fast, and participate in risky sports.

If I did not want to do any of that, I might just throw the towel in and quit CPAP.

SleepyT · Post by **SleepyT** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:42 pm

Phil...I have been following this saga quietly. I get the general feeling everyone wishes they could say just the right thing that would make the light bulb go off for you....you know, because they care. I have seen this forum turn disbelievers completely around. I don't feel like this is going to work with you though. You're not ready...for whatever reason. And I certainly don't have the magic words to share. Only a thought. You sound like a thinker...a bit of a gambler. A person who would like to figure out his own problems...his own way. I can respect that ...and I even resemble that to some degree. Having said that...do you know what would do a person like me in? (This alone would kill me.) If in, say 20 years from now, I developed some health condition that couldn't be reversed...which was caused by untreated OSA....and I had to remember all the advice I was given years ago...that I chose to ignore. I wouldn't be able to forgive myself. I would kick my dumb ass for the remaining years I had left. Just think it through...research it...whatever. I wish you many quality years of good health...

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:58 pm

Rooster is right: we do this (use XPAP) so that we may continue to do the things that give us joy, thrills, warm fuzzies
--whatever rocks your boat. It is good to have options. I'd rather do the thing that lets me keep going; making new choices,
experiencing new things. I'm just not ready to cash in my chips. It's not always easy, convenient or inexpensive; but I know it lets me be more alert while driving and at work. It has allowed me to take on the challenge of a diet and exercise program that has made a huge difference in my self-esteem and energy levels--to say nothing of the good lab reports from my doctor. I now have a hope to someday be old enough that someone may say, "Is that old bat still alive?"

Alsacienne · Post by **Alsacienne** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:06 pm

You have asked questions. We have tried to reply. You have stated your case and opinions and invited us to debate them with you. This we have done. There have been misunderstandings and firmly expressed points of view.

From the information you have acquired, you should now be in a position to make a decision. That is up to you. We cannot do more but encourage and support, albeit we would like to influence you to do what would be best for your long-term health and your wellbeing both for you and for your family.

We can do no more. The decision is up to you. I sincerely hope you decide wisely.

Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

Machine	Mask