ultra light sleepers, how long before adjustment to cpap?

I'm not sure if I'm what you're looking for but...
First, I'm new...just into this for two weeks. I never considered myself a light sleeper...I LOVE to sleep! I was sent for a sleep study by my headache specialist (I have migraines...) So....here I am! The problem now is...I can't sleep! I'm sleepy ALL the time!! And it's the mask/headgear, etc. I get a stiff neck and I also discovered this summer that TMJ is a trigger, so ...with all these contraptions -- trying to rig things up that will keep things on...and mouth closed, etc. I ended up with a headache today (I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner).
I'm hoping that I can either 1) get used to my new situation or 2) find yet another mask that suits me better (so far, Mirage Quattro and now Swift FX with mouth taping and a modified chin strap (using ACE bandage -- softer and less stress on my jaw area..ughhh!)

oh, Im glad you answered! I have a friend with migraines, terrible situation, thanks for the tip the doctor sent you for a sleep study!

So what is your situation, what is your pressure, your ahi, all that?

If it makes you feel any better, it can take a little longer than two weeks to get used to all these contraptions, but
its good to find out exactly WHAT is bothering you by process of elimination..

60 Days and I have not adjusted. I feel I just traded my AHI events for Mask annoyance events. So I'm awake just as often as I was before if not more often now. Last night I can remember 5 times at least of adjusting the mask because itching, leaks, hose tangles etc. Those are just the APAP related awakenings.

I'm not sure I'm going to adjust at least with the two masks I have, one nasal and one full face. Might have to try the pillows to next though I have a lot of allergies and this is a bad time of the year.

On the positive side my stas from the APAP look great just not feeling that way at the moment.

John

slaaplekker wrote:60 Days and I have not adjusted. I feel I just traded my AHI events for Mask annoyance events. So I'm awake just as often as I was before if not more often now. Last night I can remember 5 times at least of adjusting the mask because itching, leaks, hose tangles etc. Those are just the APAP related awakenings.

I'm not sure I'm going to adjust at least with the two masks I have, one nasal and one full face. Might have to try the pillows to next though I have a lot of allergies and this is a bad time of the year.

On the positive side my stas from the APAP look great just not feeling that way at the moment.

John

Oh gosh, two months and still struggling, Im sorry to hear that. Allergies make it worse, I know.. Well, Im glad your ahi is good, but wouldnt it be nice
if it matched how you felt? I can get a 0.8 or a 4 and feel the same.... I hope you get used to it soon, two months is a long time to struggle, but
sometimes people come back here after a year and do the victory dance.. THAT I hope is not how long it will take for us! OMG!

(Im waiting to have the perfect night, so I know I can do it again, no leaks, low ahi, and seven good hours)

Let's see...(I'll post this in my "additional comments") I'm apparently in the "mild" category except in REM sleep:
AHI: 11/hr
AHI During REM: 55.2/Hr (yuck) - I have "breath-taking dreams
RDI: 17.6/hr
Arousals: 11.6/hr
Low Oxy: 78 happened only once during sleep study.

I'm set at 11 (ramping from 4 to 11 in 30 minutes)
Is there any other info I should know?

elena88 wrote:oh, Im glad you answered! I have a friend with migraines, terrible situation, thanks for the tip the doctor sent you for a sleep study!

So what is your situation, what is your pressure, your ahi, all that?

If it makes you feel any better, it can take a little longer than two weeks to get used to all these contraptions, but
its good to find out exactly WHAT is bothering you by process of elimination..

Everyone should not forget that the SA "events" you were experiencing before CPAP were a type of awakening because they brought you out of that deep, deep sleep in a struggle to breathe. However, they were so frequent that you may not even have been aware of how often this was happening--only the really BIG events brought you fully awake (and often cause most people to think they woke to go to the bathroom since by that time of the night the bladder is full).

In addition to that, there's a normal rhythm of sleep that brings you out of the deep stages of sleep on somewhat predictable cycles. Some people may have come up to an even lighter stage of sleep than usual because of SA or in those normal cycles and that's why they perceive themselves as "light sleepers"--any disturbance in that state can bring you fully awake.

Now add CPAP. You now have a bIg disturbance strapped to your face. Even if those events are decreased and you are mostly staying in a deeper stage of sleep, when you come out of that stage you are more likely to come more fully awake because now there is an ever-present distrubance!

Your body needs time to retrain itself to get into that deep stage of sleep and to remain there. THat's one of the reasons that the PSG looks at brain waves that indicate your stages of sleep. So, you've got to give yourself time to get used to everything so that the CPAP ceases to be a disturbance and allows you to stay more deeply asleep.

Elena, it seems like it's been quite a while now for you, so I'm a little worried that this is still an issue for you. Do your graphs give any hints on what might be going on?

Hi Elena, not to be a smart-aleck here but I'll throw my 2 cents in anyway.

Before CPAP I was a real deep sleeper, or so I thought. NOTHING could wake me up. I had to drag myself out of bed in the mornings.
The first few months after CPAP, I became a VERY light sleeper. I especially remember one morning just a few weeks into the therapy, well, you just have to read the thread, involving roosters and such: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23355&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15 (some good soup recipes there too ). Wow what a trip down memory lane! Anyway point is that my sleep became very very VERY ultra-annoyingly LIGHT. I woke up to every damn thing that creaked and crawled. I still do, to a certain extent, but after a few months it settled down. I don't know exactly how long it took (but moving out of that apartment a few months later definitely helped). I am still sensitive to APAP - I tried a trial run a few months ago and I am still more refreshed on straight CPAP. Now my sleep is much more refreshing now than it ever was, albeit lighter. I am also one of those "sensitive" people who (over) reacts to external stimuli, and that over-reactive tendency has actually dimished after starting CPAP (and the hypothyroid meds).

Here is an older post about the highly sensitive person: (mid-way down the post): viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23735&p=206550&hili ... n+#p206550

I though we had already discussed this in relation to you, but maybe my memory is wrong. -SWS has good knowledge in this topic too. I could have sworn there were more posts on this topic but a search for "highly sensitive person" didn't turn up too many hits. It has been discussed here many times before, I'm just not using the right search terms (that's your homework for tonight, find back those old posts ).

"klgm326"]Let's see...(I'll post this in my "additional comments") I'm apparently in the "mild" category except in REM sleep:
AHI: 11/hr
AHI During REM: 55.2/Hr (yuck) - I have "breath-taking dreams
RDI: 17.6/hr
Arousals: 11.6/hr
Low Oxy: 78 happened only once during sleep study.

I'm set at 11 (ramping from 4 to 11 in 30 minutes)
Is there any other info I should know?

geez, you mentioned that you might need a mask that suits you better, if you are REALLY uncomfortable, you are never going to get any sleep..
and geez, you need it, what a nasty little patch of events you have in REM.. breath taking dreams is right..
so you tried the mirage and the swift fx.. I have tried several mask, and keep coming back to my opus three sixty and f and p nose pillows..
Sometimes, when Im laying there, I swear I cant feel those things in my nose, its as if they arent there.. Among other things that can
cause your sleep to be interuppted, It sounds like you are just really, really uncomfortable with your equipment.. Is there a way you can try on a bunch of different masks all at once at a dme's office?

Janknitz wrote:Everyone should not forget that the SA "events" you were experiencing before CPAP were a type of awakening because they brought you out of that deep, deep sleep in a struggle to breathe. However, they were so frequent that you may not even have been aware of how often this was happening--only the really BIG events brought you fully awake (and often cause most people to think they woke to go to the bathroom since by that time of the night the bladder is full).

In addition to that, there's a normal rhythm of sleep that brings you out of the deep stages of sleep on somewhat predictable cycles. Some people may have come up to an even lighter stage of sleep than usual because of SA or in those normal cycles and that's why they perceive themselves as "light sleepers"--any disturbance in that state can bring you fully awake.

Now add CPAP. You now have a bIg disturbance strapped to your face. Even if those events are decreased and you are mostly staying in a deeper stage of sleep, when you come out of that stage you are more likely to come more fully awake because now there is an ever-present distrubance!

Your body needs time to retrain itself to get into that deep stage of sleep and to remain there. THat's one of the reasons that the PSG looks at brain waves that indicate your stages of sleep. So, you've got to give yourself time to get used to everything so that the CPAP ceases to be a disturbance and allows you to stay more deeply asleep.

Elena, it seems like it's been quite a while now for you, so I'm a little worried that this is still an issue for you. Do your graphs give any hints on what might be going on?

Hi there, thanks for the very imformative reply! I was a horrid sleeper before cpap too.. I was not dreaming, up every couple hours, and was
afraid to go to sleep.. so it wasnt very pretty.. it was awful actually, every night I was up most of the night.. however, I FELT okay during the day.
I did feel like a truck ran over me in the morning, gasping, heart racing, yes, but the day ahead was MINE.. I could function, not only function, I
was the envy of everyone one.. I could go and go and go and go.. so I think I miss that, Ive been a slug for five months, and its not suiting me
My graphs say I have leaks here and there... all my ahi is under five.. Its just that I didnt feel tired before cpap, so all the events werent making
me tired.. so even if all the events are treated, I dont know why that would fix things really.. Im not making any sense.. I just realized that.

echo wrote:Hi Elena, not to be a smart-aleck here but I'll throw my 2 cents in anyway.

Before CPAP I was a real deep sleeper, or so I thought. NOTHING could wake me up. I had to drag myself out of bed in the mornings.
The first few months after CPAP, I became a VERY light sleeper. I especially remember one morning just a few weeks into the therapy, well, you just have to read the thread, involving roosters and such: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23355&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15 (some good soup recipes there too ). Wow what a trip down memory lane! Anyway point is that my sleep became very very VERY ultra-annoyingly LIGHT. I woke up to every damn thing that creaked and crawled. I still do, to a certain extent, but after a few months it settled down. I don't know exactly how long it took (but moving out of that apartment a few months later definitely helped). I am still sensitive to APAP - I tried a trial run a few months ago and I am still more refreshed on straight CPAP. Now my sleep is much more refreshing now than it ever was, albeit lighter. I am also one of those "sensitive" people who (over) reacts to external stimuli, and that over-reactive tendency has actually dimished after starting CPAP (and the hypothyroid meds).

Here is an older post about the highly sensitive person: (mid-way down the post): viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23735&p=206550&hili ... n+#p206550

I though we had already discussed this in relation to you, but maybe my memory is wrong. -SWS has good knowledge in this topic too. I could have sworn there were more posts on this topic but a search for "highly sensitive person" didn't turn up too many hits. It has been discussed here many times before, I'm just not using the right search terms (that's your homework for tonight, find back those old posts ).

\\



Hi Echo,
geez, you sound like me! all except the deep sleeper part! I read all the threads, and even took the ARE YOU SENSITIVE TEST..
I scored a whooping ONE on it! Okay, I see you have done better on the cpap, Im sticking with it, keep your bet with the wulf!
thanks for your help, loved the chicken soup and stew yaking too!
ps. I split up the replies so I wouldnt have this loooooooooooooooooooog post..

klgm326 wrote:Let's see...(I'll post this in my "additional comments") I'm apparently in the "mild" category except in REM sleep:
AHI: 11/hr
AHI During REM: 55.2/Hr (yuck) - I have "breath-taking dreams
RDI: 17.6/hr
Arousals: 11.6/hr
Low Oxy: 78 happened only once during sleep study.

I'm set at 11 (ramping from 4 to 11 in 30 minutes)
Is there any other info I should know?

elena88 wrote:oh, Im glad you answered! I have a friend with migraines, terrible situation, thanks for the tip the doctor sent you for a sleep study!

So what is your situation, what is your pressure, your ahi, all that?

If it makes you feel any better, it can take a little longer than two weeks to get used to all these contraptions, but
its good to find out exactly WHAT is bothering you by process of elimination..

I am worried about those arousals!!!!

Good morning...Well, I think I did a little better last night. I loosened my hand-made ACE bandage chin-strap (which allowed a little more neck movement and jaw wasn't so confined) and my graphs looked pretty good. I slept almost all night (up once for potty break) and no leakage until 1 hour prior to wake up (I realized one of my nose pillows had escaped its nostril...ughh). I was happy my big bandaid over mouth did the trick for 7 hours!! (Curad - 10 for $.97 @Wally-world).
AHI: 4 (probably higher due to that last hour with open nostril...ayyy) but there were events all through the night...
The good news...I slept most of the night without a lot of discomfort.
The bad news...not there yet with leakage and getting that AHI down.
@bilnap Is there any way to see arousals on this software?
@elena...My DME is really good - I could make yet another appointment, but the FX itself is comfortable -- I just like to move from side to side, so I've had to find ways to keep the little pillows in place (thin oblong nostrils).

I thought I was a light sleeper until I got on cpap - now nothing wakes anymore.

To keep pillows in you might try a light strap made from lycra (ladies tights/ bathsuit fabric) across the pillows. It doesn't need any real tension.

Personally I prefer the Hybrid as a mask.

With regard to migraines - learn some relaxation techniques like autogenics This will help with relaxing for sleep also

It has been almost 2 months for me and I can not get use to CPAP. Before CPAP I thought I slept well and felt fine all day not tired. Now I am exhausted wake up often when I am wearing the mask, half the time I take the mask off because I need to sleep. I just purchased the Orcale oral mask, this fits right into your mouth ( I am a mouth breather). The first 2 nights have not went well. Thought I was going to fall asleep with the mask on yesterday then air pressure built up in my nose and I had to pull out the nasal plugs to let it out. I am using a machine which is suspose to adjust the pressure as needed. Has anyone had this problem with the oral masks?