I HATE that feeling of water up my nose!

The minute I put my Swift LT pillows in I get this cold wet feeling around the nostrils and if I take the pillows out to look there is already moisture there. I make sure the pillows are bone dry before putting them in. It's driving me nuts--I hate that feeling and I'm not sure what to do.

Here's what I've tried:
1. Humidifier is set very low--on 1. Could that be part of it because the air coming especially at the beginning is very cold and hitting my warm nose? Would turning the humidifier for a while help??? Preheating the water in the microwave.

2. A hose cover. I don't really see much difference using my hose cover and a problem I see with the hose cover is that it covers the big hose, but not the little hose on the Swift. I don't necessarily want to cover that hose because it will add to the weight and the visual blockage of the little hose that I prefer to have up in the clip on the top of my head. I hate having the hose move across my chest and have to reposition it to turn, so I've got the hose hanging from my overhead swivel lamp--I'm not one to cuddle with it in bed to keep it warm.

3. Last night I tried a homemade wick in the fat part of the pillows as was suggested here: viewtopic.php?p=298845#298845
The wick I made was pretty damp this morning, and there seemed to be even MORE moisture in the pillows (between the two layers) than usual.

4. Because I'm frugal (and lazy about running to the store for more distilled water), I only put about 1/4 a cup of water in my tank--it fills it to the 25% mark. Would more water in the tank help at all? Maybe it evaporates too quickly--though I get two nights out of that small amount and still have water to empty on day 3.

Would preheating the water in the microwave help or make it worse????


I love having nasal pillow, but this is going to drive me bonkers. Last night I was able to use a little Lanisoh as a moisture barrier between the pillows and my nose, but often Lanisoh just makes the pillows slip and leak more.

I don't know your machine but...

Moisture (rainout) happens when warm moist air hit a colder surface.

Warm air holds more moisture than cold air so if you are trying to get more moisture to your nose... then you would get it warmer so that it holds more.

By covering your hose, you are trying to prevent the colder surface from condensing the air/ moisture and it will make it wet to your nose. Humidity is always relative to the air around it (ie: your room). If you are set at "1" then I am guessing that it is set pretty low... then it is condensing on your nose then your room temperature must be quite a bit lower than your machine temp.

Try turning up your room temp so that your nose is not cold.

Nord

Hmmm, it IS cool in our room, but warming is not really an option. We use our heat very sparingly and sleep better in a cool room. At night we don't use heat at all, and soon we will turn off our heat altogether until late next fall. We live in a temperate climate, and can't afford to run the heat at night (except for the very rare nights when temps dip below freezing) in any case. (it's also better for allergies, and the environment ;o).

Warm nights are coming, but even during summer we get cool, foggy nights part of the time.

What if I warmed the water in the microwave before putting it in the machine? The water is room temperature, and that temperature rarely exceeds 63 degrees this time of year. During the night, I'd assume that the humidifier heat would equalize things--this rainout occurs right at the beginning of the night. That way, warmer air would be coming in, less condensation???? Any recommendation for a water temperature I should airm for if I do that?

jan.....

I think what you are describing is moisture caused by your exhaled breath....and the wick should prevent any big drops from running inside your nose....and into your sinus cavity. So long as the moisture stays inside the mask...and not UP YOUR NOSE where it can wake you up, you're doing fine.

Just remember that rainout is actually two different problems. Hose condensation....and exhaled breath condensation.

i have a different mask than yours....and I conquered my exhaled breath condensation by using a cotton string inside my nosepiece. ALSO, because my exhaust port is about 3" from my nose......I cut a small "bleed air" port into my mask...right between my nasal pillows....to let a small amount of air to vent. This additional vent changes the air direction and turbulence just inside my nosepiece...thereby helping to vent moisture before it can become a problem.

The combination of wick and bleed air vent has absolutely solved my exhaled breath moisture problem.

Gerald

Sometimes positioning can help prevent some of the accumulated moisture in the hose from draining into your mask. Place your machine lower than your mattress level, and either mount a hose holder above your head or drape the hose over a headboard with the greater length of it going upward from the machine to the peak. This puts gravity to work for you.

Try turning your humidifier off, or even emptying it out. You may find that you don't need a humidifier.

Janknitz wrote:The minute I put my Swift LT pillows in I get this cold wet feeling around the nostrils and if I take the pillows out to look there is already moisture there. I make sure the pillows are bone dry before putting them in. It's driving me nuts--I hate that feeling and I'm not sure what to do.

Here's what I've tried:
...
2. A hose cover. I don't really see much difference using my hose cover and a problem I see with the hose cover is that it covers the big hose, but not the little hose on the Swift. I don't necessarily want to cover that hose because it will add to the weight and the visual blockage of the little hose that I prefer to have up in the clip on the top of my head. I hate having the hose move across my chest and have to reposition it to turn, so I've got the hose hanging from my overhead swivel lamp--I'm not one to cuddle with it in bed to keep it warm.
...
4. Because I'm frugal (and lazy about running to the store for more distilled water), I only put about 1/4 a cup of water in my tank--it fills it to the 25% mark. Would more water in the tank help at all? Maybe it evaporates too quickly--though I get two nights out of that small amount and still have water to empty on day 3.

I take it that you currently do not use heated humidification, since you can get a quarter of a tank to last three nights.

How much of the rainout in your mask is coming from your breath in the mask proper as opposed to sluicing down the hose from it's perch on your swivel lamp? If most of your rainout is coming from your breath in the mask, why not find a way to cover the mask? That should reduce rainout. If it's coming from the mask hose and you aren't covering that hose, that's likely a large part of the problem. If it's coming from the main hose and you are covering that, you may need to use more than one layer of hose cover, especially in that kind of cold environment.

If you're only using a quarter cup of water over three nights and you still don't go through it all, I'm going to guess the main amount of rainout is coming from warm breath touching the colder parts of your mask and mask hose in that icy mountain air. If that's the case, I'm going to come back to the suggestion of covering the mask and the mask hose. Why not get an old face towel or a remnant of fleece and create a small cover for the mask's hose at least?

Maybe it's a matter of battling comforts: do you want water up your nose or do you want a slightly heavier hose and mask? Which is the lesser of two evils?

I hope this helps.

I made a cover for the small hose. I used embroidery thread to tie the ends so it would not move on the hose and the vent stayed clear. There were some nights that I still had small drops of water, but they never ending up being snorted in the middle of the night so I was happy. I wasn't comfortable using the string in the mask and it moved around on me. I hang my hose up over the bed and everything moved well together. My humidifier is set to a little over one--but I have a different brand.

Good luck,
m

I take it that you currently do not use heated humidification, since you can get a quarter of a tank to last three nights.

Erhmmmm, the PR S1 humidifier is SUPPOSED to be a heated humidifier. I'm not quite sure I have the hang of it--I'm not sureI understand if turning up the dial increases the heat or just the humidity or both since by turning up the heat, you increase the evaporation and therefore the humidity that flows out the hose (probably that).

I do know I had increased nasal congestion when it was up higher. There's no option for "off" other than removing the humidifier altogether, but that increases the noise of the blower on the machine (the way the humidifier is designed really dampens the noise--if nothing else ). I take my tank right out of the machine in the morning to empty and it doesn't feel warm at all on the part that interfaces with the heating plate--maybe there is no heat at setting #1???? I will try bumping it up now that I am more used to the direct flow in my nose.

I think very little, if any, rainout is coming from the hose--there are a few droplets at most in the fat part that joins the nasal pillows, and a little more in the pillows themselves. The hose is always bone dry, even the little hose between the big hose and the pillow cradle. I think my nose is manufacturing all of the condesnation, or at least the part in the nasal pillows themselves that bugs me so much.

Perhaps this post will help:

viewtopic/t51687/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51 ... ne#p472275

Thanks, Katie. So does that mean if I set it to act more like a classic humidifier it will warm more and then the air coming into my nose will be warmer and less likely to condense on the pillows?

KatieW wrote:Perhaps this post will help:

viewtopic/t51687/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51 ... ne#p472275

Awesome link, KatieW.

Janknitz wrote:Thanks, Katie. So does that mean if I set it to act more like a classic humidifier it will warm more and then the air coming into my nose will be warmer and less likely to condense on the pillows?

It means that currently, if your machine is set to detect rainout situations, you could crank the dial up as high as you want, it would still likely only give less-humidified air. In effect, when you sleep in a very cold room - say below 60 degrees at night - you're S1 is sensing the ambient temperature and turning the heating plate off (or so darn close as to not make a difference), effectively making your humidifier a pass-through humidifier. That's why the water in your chamber lasts so long. There isn't sufficient temperature to evaporate it into the air in the chamber. Cold air tends to precipitate moisture because it can't hold as much moisture as warm air.

Changing the settings to 'classic' humidification would allow your humidifier to heat up regardless of room temperature, but could cause a lot more rainout in your hose and mask hose, possibly sluicing more rain into your mask from where the hose is perched above your bed, especially if the hose remains uncovered. Some of that rainout on the other side of your lamps's swivel arm will slide back into the chamber. If there is a low point in the hose, lower than your S1, water may pool there, eventually causing a slurping sound in your hose and eventually making it difficult to breathe if enough water collects. All things being properly set up, you'll likely go through much more water if you set your humidity to classic settings, even at a setting of two in a very cold environment due to the normally-low humidity in cold air.

All that aside, if your rainout is coming from your mask, it's probably time to find a way to cover your mask. Karen from padacheek.com could probably make something for you. She may even have a mask cover for your mask type already. Definitely cover the mask hose too.

Good luck.

I use a trick that was posted here by the more wiser users. I route my hose up over the bed post and allow any water to run back into the machine. Must work, I have no rainout.

Thanks to all the input, I tried a couple of things that helped last night. Usually I try to make one change at a time, so I can see what is really helping, but last night I tried three different things together:

1. I warmed the water in my reservoir by preheating it in the microwave. (And I splurged by putting in 1/2 a cup of water to give it a little more mass to cool more slowly)
2. I warmed up my heating pad and tented it near the intake filter for just a few moments when I first turned the machine on (viola! warm air instead of arctic blast).
3. I turned up the humidifier to 2 (WOW--aren't I adventurous! )

Results:
Warm, comfy air flowing in my nose. I didn't get condensation until the air really cooled off. Most nights, I could be asleep by then. There was only one normal sized drop of water in the fat part of the Swift cushion, and tiny condensation droplets in the pillows--about 1/3 of the amount of moisture in the pillows than the previous night. Oh, and while I felt that minor condensation when the air coming in cooled, on the annoyance scale it was maybe a 4 instead of a 10.

So a success. Now I'll try eliminating one at a time to see if I can get away with just preheating the water, or just preheating the air, or just leaving the humidifier turned up a bit (sinuses were OK this morning).