My cholestrol has gone through the roof

Glad 2 hear it! When I started with my doctor a year ago my cholestrol was 205. I had to just change my diet a little. I'm still battling with my weight though.

OK so I have been re-tested 2 weeks after those initial alarming test results, here are my results

Total 336 mg/dL down 36
Trig 220 down 90
HDL 53 up 4

VLDL don't know
LDL 239 down 5

I wonder about the accuracy of these test results. If they took two samples and tested them would the numbers come out exactly the same?

For the last two weeks i have eliminated fat from my diet as much as i could. No more egg and bacon breakfasts, now its real oatmeal (not instant) and berries. I'm no longer eating a lot of cheese everyday. Exercise has been increased to at least 100 miles of cycling a week. I've also been doing some pilates with the wife in the evening, pilates is harder than it looks by the way
In general i'm leaning towards a lower carb diet and i've lost 10lbs in the last two weeks.

I've also taken Joys advice and started taking Red Yeast Rice & CoO-10 supplements although i have not yet started taking Niacin.

So now i have a decision to make, do i go running back to the doctor for lipitor or do i take these new test results as indication that i can do this by myself?

Hi Uncle_Bob

What about the peanuts? did you stop eating that all day long?

Take care at your problem. I have a friend who had a heart attack at age 33, he needed to have a kind of ballon inserted into his heart to open something. He had had high cholesterol for years until the day that expoded.

Maybe you are too stressed because of your S9, I'm not joking it could be possible that it affects you.

But in any case if you decide to continue with excercise and diet at least don't take too long to check again your cholesterol. Keep that at check often.

Rosie
(rosacer)

Bob,

Good work, all your lipid fractions have improved! The LDL and TRIGLYCERIDES are the ones you'll want to monitor closely.

As to your question: yes, your levels would be very close with two different lab tests (using the same blood sample). As far as different samples of blood -- levels would vary somewhat different times of the day according to what we eat, and what our body is producing. But periodic blood tests a couple months apart will accurately evaluate how you are progressing.

So now, you still have a long way to go to get to "optimal lipid levels". And the call is yours whether to get a prescription drug like Lipitor or Zocor (generic is simvastatin) . . . OR . . . to continue with the reliable Red Yeast Rice brand you just started taking. Either the prescriptions or the RYR should work equally well. You need to give it about 6-8 weeks before retesting to see how either is working.

Then after you get to the maximum dose of either the Rx or the RYR, if you still need to bring it down more you can add the Niacin at the recommended dose. (Your physician is very familiar with Rx Niacin. It has been prescribed by docs for a long time and works really well on ALL the lipid fractions. Niacin, a B vitamin, is relatively safe at higher doses but it will cause "Niacin Flush", a prickly-feeling rash that lasts about 15 min. I take 3x250mg (750 mg total) of the non-Rx timed release niacin called "Enduracin" and the flush is not that big a deal for me (more noticeable at first than now). Different Niacin products can more uncomfortable than others. Enduracin is the one that has been used in the clinical trials comparing it to Rx drugs, so it is the one I use. (By the way, the "No-flush Niacin" product doesn't work to normalize lipids).

Good luck, Bob! Your motivation and persistence with diet and exercise puts most of us (including me) to shame By the way, you can still have eggs without bothering your cholesterol levels -- just use Eggbeaters (it's egg whites that tastes pretty much like whole eggs). You can always mix in some onions, broccoli/spinach and spices to jazz it up. Eating oatmeal every day can get old

Joy
PS - You are inspiring me to get going more with exercise . . . has always been my thorn in the flesh

.

Ah salt On everything mostly, plus i snack on planters cocktail peanuts all day long ...

Bob, you know that all nuts are super high in calories & fat, don't you? . . . So if you're feasting on them all day that's a habit to change ASAP

The peanuts you're eating, besides having lots of salt, have been roasted in "bad fat" oil and "oxidized" which is definitely bad for your LDL levels.

Almonds and Walnuts RAW (not roasted in oil & salted) are the healthiest nuts you can eat, but you still have be very careful of the quantity you eat

rosacer wrote:Hi Uncle_Bob

What about the peanuts? did you stop eating that all day long?

Maybe you are too stressed because of your S9, I'm not joking it could be possible that it affects you.

Rosie
(rosacer)

No I'm still on the nuts, I've got 48 1oz planters bags in my office but i will find it hard to give them up and i love having a couple of bags before i cycle home for the energy.

As for the S9, its giving me loving not stress

JoyD. wrote:Bob,

Good work, all your lipid fractions have improved! The LDL and TRIGLYCERIDES are the ones you'll want to monitor closely.

I take 3x250mg (750 mg total) of the non-Rx timed release niacin called "Enduracin"

Good luck, Bob! Your motivation and persistence with diet and exercise puts most of us (including me) to shame By the way, you can still have eggs without bothering your cholesterol levels -- just use Eggbeaters (it's egg whites that tastes pretty much like whole eggs). You can always mix in some onions, broccoli/spinach and spices to jazz it up. Eating oatmeal every day can get old

Joy
PS - You are inspiring me to get going more with exercise . . . has always been my thorn in the flesh

Joy, You've sent me so much great information i totally lost track of the Enduracin. As I'm leaning towards continuing on the path i am on I'll probably be ordering some from iHerb.com over the weekend.

I'm trying to make both diet and exercise fit in with my lifestyle, i know if either become to difficult or awkward to do then I won't go the distance.
I can't be bothered with going to the gym and pounding away on treadmills, also it would be time I would rather spend with my wife and kids. Cycling for my commute on a dedicated bike path is great exercise not only for the body but also the mind, it only takes 10 more minutes than commuting by car. I find it very relaxing and much less stressful than a commute in my car. As there is no traffic around i can listen to various self help type audio books.

I'll think i'll be good with the oatmeal for a while. remember i used to have chicken wings for lunch every day for 2 years when i used to work next to a sports bar. I would walk into that place at lunch time and the chef would just drop a dozen wings in the fryer

I'm happy to be inspiring you, I don't think I've inspired anyone before

If it makes you feel any better, my mother died at age 87.5. She was over weight most of her life. Her cholesterol was 450. Yes, 450! Go figure.

Gary

Hi UB. Like DreamStalker and Timbalionguy and a few others, I eat ulta-low carb -- that means like 10 servings a day of the fibery veggies (there's a whole thread on low carb eating). These are my figures from apnea diagnosis, just before adopting ultra-low carb, & last labs with the low carb+mod fat, and ultra-low carb+high saturated fat succeeding in dramatic reductions and shift to the safe large-fluffy LDL particle size.

_________TC___Tri___HDL_LDL
Oct '02___208__ 92___45___145__baseline (TC typically ran 195-210)
Apr '07___221__189___54___129 __apnea diagnosis, off and on low carb, too exhausted to eat right
Jun '08___212__181___47___129__adopt consistent low-carb+mod fat
Dec '08__205___119___57___124__6 mos results, before backslide into apnea & high stress with layoff
Sep '09__235___145___60___147__adopt high sat fats like organic coconut oil, drop veggy fats, start thyroid
Dec '09__202___127___53___122__VAT profile shows very few small LDL particles

Started supps of vitamin D3 as I was severely deficient. Took me 18 mos to get my level to 66, aiming for the 70-100 range. I typically take 8000 IU/day.

My LDL particles are mostly large so even tho my LDL is 122 because the particles are huge it means they do not contribute to the vascular probs that small particles do. Worth getting your LDL particle size measured to determine if a "large" LDL number indicates a problem -- mine doesn't. A low LDL but mostly small particles is a recipe for cardiovascular events. My cardiologist is quite happy with my numbers, no more statin talk tho there is NOT a single study that shows any benefit of taking statins for any woman of any age regardless of heart health...he agreed with much sighing & frowning...I said I'd try Slo-Niacin tho the side effects after a few does were intolerable -- that's when I went high sat fat with excellent results.

The key for me has been very low/no veggie oils and high saturated fats with high protein and low, low carbs. My liver and kidney functions tests show nice improvements (never were bad but better numbers now) since switching to the high sat fat. So, if I had to answer your opriginal question, I'd say yeah, untreated/poorly treated anpnea screws up the lipids esp if you follow the advice to eat lots of "healthy" grains -- they aren't healthy for some of us...those carbs just screw up our metabolisms. My sleep doc says that untreated apnea makes a nasty chemical stew of our blood that takes many, often many many, months to normalize. Cardiologist is even happier to see these numbers as they show my apnea is being treated more effectively and that reduces my risks for CV events...made my sleep doc & primary happier too!

Using the ResMed APAP since last Nov, I finally have a hemocrit and red blood cell numbers in the normal range. My dataless CPAP wasn't treating my apnea effectively enough even tho I was much, much better than I was untreated thus my red blood cells and hemocrit reflected my body's attempt to deal with the lower oxygen levels I was was experiencing -- hoorah, the APAP is stopping that and my body isn't having to work so hard to overcome that problem.

Gotta do your research and determine if the LDL particle size is a problem, then figure what dietary interventions work to change the particle size and numbers/ratios. Diet is primary, exercise a close second. Yeah, there's the alcohol paradox...for many of us, the bad effects outweigh the good, tho the resveratrol in wine & beer is good...I just take a grape seed extract+resveratrol supp from COSTCO for those bennies.

Good luck!

Muse wrote:

Like DreamStalker and Timbalionguy and a few others, I eat ulta-low carb -- that means like 10 servings a day of the fibery veggies (there's a whole thread on low carb eating). These are my figures from apnea diagnosis, just before adopting ultra-low carb, & last labs with the low carb+mod fat, and ultra-low carb+high saturated fat succeeding in dramatic reductions and shift to the safe large-fluffy LDL particle size.

Muse, with all that is written about diets - high and low carb - it seems that a lot of people don't realize that there are GOOD CARBS and BAD CARBS - so talking about the benefits of eating "low carb" can be confusing. The GOOD CARBS are the fibery veggies you talk about eating 10 servings a day (way to go!!). . . so I know you know what "good carbs" are: broccoli, spinach, greens, various lettuce varieties, brussel sprouts. cauliflower, radishes, cucumber, celery, tomatoes, eggplant, etc. We want to eat as many of the good carbs as possible - the more the better. They are packed with health-promoting nutrients including fiber. It is best to eat a variety since they have different antioxidants & bioflavinoids in them. Carrots and sweet potatoes are also great because of the high beta-carotene which converts to Vitamin A in the body, but they do contain fructose sugar. Legumes (all varieties of beans) are excellent even though a bit starchy. They are packed with soluble as well as insoluble fiber, and are an excellent source of non-animal protein as well. And 100% whole grain foods breads & pasta are also GOOD CARBS because of the high amount of fiber, vitamins, and minerals along with the lower glycemic response compared to foods containing white flour.

The BAD CARBS are the starches like white potatoes, white rice, white flour, white bread, white pasta, and, of course, sugar! These including pastries, cookies, pretzels, crackers, and candy are what one usually thinks of as "CARBS", but they should correctly be referred to as "BAD CARBS" so people don't think ALL Carbs are bad . (A lot of people don't realize that broccoli, for example, is a CARB . Yes it is; it's a GOOD CARB, actually a GREAT one .)

There's also the issue of "high glycemic foods". The BAD CARBS are HIGH GLYCEMIC. Most processed foods are high glycemic because of the "insulin surge" which results in weight gain especially on the belly. You want to limit your intake of ripe bananas because they are so high glycemic & fattening; greenish bananas are much lower glycemic, ie, they don't cause the insulin surge that ripe bananas do. Fruits in general are considered GOOD CARBS because they are packed with bioflavinoids and antioxidants and fiber. . . but they do contain quite a lot of fructose sugar so you need to watch how many you eat. (Watermelon is very fattening because it is basically sugar and water). The fiber in most fruits results in a more gradual release of insulin so it isn't like eating cookies and pastries (the bad carbs).

I thought perhaps we needed this clarification: that we are NOT talking about going LOW CARB, but rather, REDUCING BAD CARBS and INCREASING GOOD CARBS.

It is the same with FAT: there is GOOD FAT and BAD FAT. We want to REDUCE saturated fats, trans-fats, excess Omega-6 fats (ie, polyunsaturated oils) . . . but we want to INCREASE Omega-3 fats (DHA & EPA) that are found in fish & fish oil supplements; as well as increasing good fats like flax, walnuts, olives, "unpressed" olive oil (from health food stores), avacados and other monosaturated fats.

Joy

PS - Please excuse the repetition if you have already discussed this in your other threads .

Ah Joy, I really do eat very low carb, like 12-15 grams max per meal, heck of a lot of fibery veggies for those carbs...I get a lot of nutrient bang for those precious few carbs! I really do eat a lot of saturated fat like organic coconut oil (I only cook with Spectrum Organic Refined Coconut Oil as it has no hexanes or other left-over chemicals). I also liberally add pasture-grazed butter (KerryGold) to my veggies. I eat tree nuts. The only not-saturated fat I get is olive oil in marinades and the occasional salad dressing. I supp with omega 3s and a high DHA. With no other carbs in meal, I occasionally have berries with real old-fashioned whipped cream or a small tangerine or for an indulgence a small Gala or Granny Smith apple with lots of cinnamon. I typically have 3-4 red grapes with an oz of cheese before bed with 1/2 of one grape going as a facial rub before washing face (helps reduce dry skin, no moisturizer with silicon).

This is all heresy to the sat fat is death crowd & my cardio agrees with me tho he toes the AHA line that sat fat is bad. I read and follow William Davis cardiologist blog like this one "Slash carbs . . . What happens?" at http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2010/ ... ppens.html. Great article, too good not not to post this extract:

Reduced small LDL--This effect is profound. Carbohydrates increase small LDL; reduction of carbohydrates reduce small LDL. People are often confused by this because the effect will not be evident in the crude, calculated (Friedewald) LDL that your doctor provides.

Increased HDL--The HDL-increasing effect of carbohydrate reduction may require 1-2 years. In fact, in the first 2 months, HDL will drop, only to be followed by a slow, gradual increase. This is the reason why, in a number of low-carb diet studies, HDL was shown to be reduced.--Had the timeline been longer, HDL would show a significant increase.

Decreased triglycerides--Like reduction of small LDL, the effect is substantial. Triglyceride reductions of several hundred milligrams are not at all uncommon. In people with familial hypertriglyceridemia with triglyceride levels in the thousands of milligrams per deciliter, triglyceride levels will plummet with carbohydrate restriction. (Ironically, conventional treatment for familial hypertriglyceridemia is fat restriction, a practice that can reduce triglycerides modestly in these people, but not anywhere near as effectively as carbohydrate restriction.) Triglyceride reduction is crucial, because triglycerides are required by the process to make small LDL--less triglycerides, less small LDL.

Too much Key Lime Pie.

Sounds like you need some Vytorin! Works great on my numbers.

For your situation, Bob, I'd suggest you try cutting way back on fructose intake, which includes reducing sucrose (table sugar= glucose + fructose) consumption. Don't drink fruit juice and don't even think about sweetened soft drinks. Fructose can only be metabolized in the liver (acting as something of an extra-saturated fat), which can add tremendously to your problem, and it creates a chain of nasty by-products in the process. Whole fruit has far less fructose per volume and the fiber to counteract most of the ill effects.

Also with diet it can take up to 3 months before the results start really popping up for this kind of thing.

I have done ultra low carb before, essentially the atkins diet induction phase for a long time. It was very difficult to do properly and resulted in me consuming a lot of quick serve high fat foods. I have read the atkins book and part of the south beach diet and have come around to the good carb bad carb way of thinking.

Now that i am doing the low carb diet again I need to complete the important step of actually counting the carbs, I will need to accurately figure out how much my metabolism can handle to maintain a constant goal weight.

I think I will get re-tested in 3 months and re-evaluated the situation then. In the mean time i am taking the RYR + CoQ-10 and I have the Enduracin on order.

As always thanks for all the advice

UB, next trip to the store get Ubiquinol as it's the most effective form of CoQ10.