Meet the minds behind the S9

ThinkPositive wrote:...Believe me when I say that there is nothing insincere about the intent and efforts of the people you see in these videos. I have my own reasons for believing that. I would only ask that others recognize obvious effort when they see it, and have some respect for any people who make an effort.

I suspect much of the skepticism you're seeing for this product in this thread is not aimed at the product in specific, but at industry in general. No doubt, the designers of both the machine and the commercials have the sincerest intentions. However, they tend to drop the ball when it comes to end users. The client of Resmed is not the end user - it's the DME. That's whom they are selling to. The client of the commercial maker is Resmed, not the end user or the DME. Their biases show in the materials they produce. It might have been more interesting if they had included end users in the videos who could actually comment intelligently on the use of the product - and the use of the software. I can only suppose you're either a relative of one of the 'minds' behind the S9, or someone who helped make the commercial.

You want a message to take home? Involve ALL the stakeholders in a project. Your client needs to be made aware that if they want a superior product, they're going to have to pay to include all levels of stakeholder: that includes the end user. I live in a city where a beautiful greenway was established. The people whose neighborhood it goes through don't use it. Why? They weren't consulted in the process. It's not their greenway, even if it is beautiful. They don't even care to adopt it and make it their own, even though the city made it for them to use.

You want user ownership? Loyalty? I hope you see where I'm going here. Involve me in the making of your machine. Don't stop with the DME. Involve me with the making of your film about a product I'm likely to use. Don't stop with the maker of the machine trying to impress the DME. You will only get a better final product that reaches more people on more levels.

DreamDiver wrote: You want user ownership? Loyalty? I hope you see where I'm going here. Involve me in the making of your machine. Don't stop with the DME. Involve me with the making of your film about a product I'm likely to use. Don't stop with the maker of the machine trying to impress the DME. You will only get a better final product that reaches more people on more levels.

Well said!

What confuses me is that why does Resmed not like online sales. How many S9 owners on this forum purchased through insurance and a DME? How many DME's are going to tell a first time user "We have this brilliant new product, would you like one?"

I think DME's are the weakest link (goodbye!) in the SDB therapy chain. Actually let me qualify that; I think money grubbing, uncaring, incompetent DME's are the weak link. Does Resmed think that these DME's are going to push their new product?

I think what disturbs many here about the commercial video is the emphasis placed on the S9s appearance rather than on its "abilities".

And, I also think, that many here fail to recognize the fact that we are "a drop in the bucket", whether we, and the manufacturers, like it or not, in the USA, thanks to the FDA and the medical profession, the local DME suppliers are the "customers", THEY are the ones that the manufacturers must cater and sell to. The VAST MAJORITY of new apnea patients don't have the SLIGHTEST IDEA of what a CPAP even looks like EXCEPT the CPAP the local DME supplier whips out and presents to them.

ThinkPositive wrote: . . . I suggest it is wise to rate the product based on actual cases where it has been used by real people . . .

And that is exactly what happened here.

In this case, specifically, the product being consumed was the video. That product was "used" when it was watched by real people who reacted based on what matters most to them. This is, after all, medical equipment. And if a promotional video was shown to doctors expounding the beauty and the sleek visual appeal and colors of a newly designed line of surgery tools, many docs would laugh or feel somewhat insulted. Sure, no one minds if it looks nice, but it may seem inappropriate to some that they were expected to care more about how it looks than what it does. That in no way is meant to discount the fine work of the designers.

As for the subject of the video, the machine itself, isn't it the very purpose of promotional materials to get people to form opinions about products they have never used? If so, then discounting the reaction to promotional material of someone who has never used the product would be an odd thing to do, in my opinion.

That being said, we all apologize if our reaction to the promotional video was found to be insulting to the makers of the video or the artisitic designers of the product itself. After all, it is their feelings that matter most in all of this, I guess, not the patients.

So. Hey: Cool video! Nice looking actors! Great camera work! Nice music! Fantastic editing! Oh, and, yeah, the machine looked kinda cool too. THANKS!

jeff

Maybe they made it look nicey-nice....for the DMEs...
not because small children were afraid of them.
Maybe they created the spinning wheel and smiley faces for the DMEs...
because they were intimidated by actually having to
know how to navigate through computer menus and
make and save choices.

A smiley face they can understand....
an actual leak readout....not so much.

ThinkPositive.....
cry me a river....
build me a bridge....
and get over it.

These machines are my freak'n life.

OK, so some reasonable opinions I agree with regarding the industry focus on DMEs. Sure the makers have to work with them, its their distribution model. Partly provided to them by health systems, and yes, supported by their own practices. At the end of the day, until home diagnosis is supported by health care systems and health insurance, and therefor will be a reality for a large percentage of the people being screened, this is the way it will remain as the primary distribution model in the USA at least.

Anyway back to the point that lead me to comment. The S9 was released to the US market on 26 Feb. This thread was started on 20 Feb. The opinions being passed in this thread at that time were little to do with the actual features and performance of the S9 itself as there were no real people using it in the US, except in clinical trials, who could pass on real experiences with it. I suggest that by now the experiences reported by people now using the S9 are more valid in any case than conjecture.

carbonman, if these machines are your life, and I do not make light of that statement at all, how about focusing on the machine and not the video or the smiley face. Lets focus on the actual device and its ability to HELP you live your life. That is what will make or break it in the market. If it ain't effective, or can't be demonstrated to be so for people using it, insurance companies wont pay for it. A lot of people wont be able to afford it and wont buy it. And then no-one will be able to spend the time and money to develop and make them. And then no-one will get them. So what if the makers are trying to sell people on the image of it? Too commercial for you? How about the fact that it is insurance that makes quality therapy affordable in the first place. Is that because governments and insurance companies want to help you with your life? Or is is because they think it is more commercial from their perspective to keep people on home therapy, and out of hospitals, where is where many people with OSA would end up if untreated.

It has to be commercial. It works because the numbers add up the right way. Having said that, if DMEs are not impressing you, and don't really help you with therapy, I can understand you feel put off by what you see as an attempt to impress the DMEs and not talk to people using the products. I can virtually guarantee one thing, DMEs are not interested in what a product looks like. They care fundamentally about the insurance reimbursement. ResMed would not have made it look pleasant for their benefit, because they don't care and ResMed would know that. What they also know is that end users of these systems are more and more educated as to their own therapy and are more and more discerning. I see the attempt to make a more feature rich, comfortable and nicer looking device as a genuine attempt to appeal to you, the end user. If you can't recognize that, then maybe its just because you are bitter about the whole business/commercial/money aspect of healthcare and feel like no-one cares for the right reasons. Everybody has to make a buck. Now who is working hardest to earn theirs? Insurance companies? Government health departments? DMEs? Or is it companies like ResMed and Respironics who actually make something that was not there before and therefor add value, rather than just being part of the food chain?

I'll agree w/you on one thing, ThinkPositive - kudos to the manufacturers for developing better and better xPAPs. I've said it before and I'll continue saying it - the manufacturers and the good RPSGTs are the true heroes of sleep medicine. The sleep doctors and the local DME providers have a LONG WAY TO GO to improve their services and image!!!! Too many are "the pits"!

Think', I'm curious as to the color of your dog in this fight?

As to my focus, I throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks.
It tends to bring out some interesting things.
....like a box of chocolates.

I'm focused on every post.
I'm reading every reaction by every new S9 user.
I'm studying every report that is posted.

It is my life....and I do appreciate that you don't take that lightly.

I'm not in a panic. I never waited for a DME, a sleep doc,
a sleep lab or insc. to tell me when or how to make my therapy work.
I got what I needed and I made it work.
I have years of proven therapy stashed in my closet.

Business, insc. and the gov't could care less about me.
They, any of them, didn't pay a dime for any of my equipment.
What I did get through insc. was totally covered by my premiums.
The only benefit to me was it was before tax money.

Why would I be bitter about "the whole business/commercial/money aspect of healthcare"?

ThinkPositive wrote:OK, so some reasonable opinions I agree with regarding the industry focus on DMEs. Sure the makers have to work with them, its their distribution model. Partly provided to them by health systems...

Anyway back to the point that lead me to comment. The S9 was released to the US market on 26 Feb. This thread was started on 20 Feb. The opinions being passed in this thread at that time were little to do with the actual features and performance of the S9 itself as there were no real people using it in the US, except in clinical trials...

carbonman, if these machines are your life, and I do not make light of that statement at all, how about focusing on the machine and not the video or the smiley face. Lets focus on the actual device and its ability to HELP you live your life. ... ....governments and insurance companies want to help you with your life? Or is is because they think it is more commercial from their perspective to keep people on home therapy, and out of hospitals, where is where many people with OSA would end up if untreated.

It has to be commercial. I... .... Government health departments? DMEs? Or is it companies like ResMed and Respironics who actually make something that was not there before and therefor add value, rather than just being part of the food chain?

Parts of speech eliminated for brevity by Nord

Hi ThinkPositive

I, and probably most people on this forum would want to personally thank ResMed, Respironics (Phillips), F & P, and all the other smaller companies that contribute in many ways to our improved healthcare. We, and I only speak for myself, feel that Healthcare could be more interested in how we are doing. Healthcare is a very profitable industry because we, the patients, order the machines, masks etc. I'm not against profits or rules provided that they are reasonable and not extreme... thus the Internet supply.

In my own case: I am newly diagnosed and was "soaking up" knowledge everywhere to try to make an informed decision about my own therapy. Seeing the videos by ResMed, I was amused but not offended. I have made my choice to order the S9 and am awaiting delivery... not because of the "bad press" but I felt after all the info was gathered... it was the right machine and the right choice. Everyone else here made the best choice they could based on needs/ info/ suggestion. That may or may not have been ResMed... probably again not because of the videos.

The frustration that I have heard here is that the distribution model is skewed at least for some of us.

1. DME's don't necessarily have our best interests at heart and don't always provide us with enough info/ choices (Profit)
2. Manufacturers and Suppliers don't respond very well to our needs (such as software or patient control) (Supply Model)
3. Pricing support rules (Internet)
4. Like any group that has a future that they don't control... they would like to know that those that control our future are choosing it in the right way - understandable.

Don't be offended by positive or negative feedback... learn

Nord

The manufacturers are not dummies. How many patients actually want and will buy the patient software?? How many patients even KNOW that there may be patient software? How many sleep doctors are willing to write the script for xPAP software for their patients? The FDA in this particular instance is a PITA and a stooge for the medical profession and the medical profession is desperately trying to maintain some control.

What I would like is a video that says "We at ResMed have decided to change the way our machines recognize and report what the S8's used to call 'hypopneas' because _______________. . . . And we are proud to announce that our machine has been proven effective in differentiating what a sleep lab would call a central apnea from what a sleep lab would call an obstructive apnea _____ percent of the time, according to the following independent studies _______________ . . . "

Hey, I can dream, can't I?

jnk wrote:Hey, I can dream, can't I?

When you're not in REM?

Slinky wrote:The manufacturers are not dummies. How many patients actually want and will buy the patient software?? How many patients even KNOW that there may be patient software? How many sleep doctors are willing to write the script for xPAP software for their patients? The FDA in this particular instance is a PITA and a stooge for the medical profession and the medical profession is desperately trying to maintain some control.

"Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence" - Napoleon

Gads, I didn't realize that Napoleon was that smart!!! Incompetence rather than malice. So appropriate! Heaven forbid apnea patients should come to realize just how incompetent their sleep doctor and local DME provider's RRT and staff really are!!!!!