Meet the minds behind the S9

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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ozij
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Re: Meet the minds behind the S9

Post by ozij » Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:47 am

Bob3000 wrote:
I consider a therapy that effectively treats 90% or more of the population to be a solved problem. In medicine, success rates like that are exceedingly rate. You seem to consider the small number of people who might benefit by switching machines and thus apap algorithms to be evidence that xPAP therapy is NOT a solved problem.
How fascinating. When it's your postion, its 90% of the population. When its mine, it becomes "a small number".

10% of a very very large population is a large number of individuals. Suffering individuals, as jnk said. You may prefer to ignore them in the name of science. I prefer to observe them using my best logical and scientific abilities, in the name of attemting to help individual people.

Enough time spent on this thread.

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Last edited by ozij on Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Meet the minds behind the S9

Post by Satsleep » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:18 am

When Bob talks about 90% he is talking like Doctors talk and when ozij talks about 10% he is talking like patients talk. Example: I had a wife who was diagnosed with breast cancer. The Doctor said that because it was caught in the early stages she had a 95% likelihood of recovery. I said, that may be true, but for the 5% who do not recover it is 100% bad. Medical statistics are all based on probabilities, but there are always exceptions and for the exception the statistic does not apply.

As to the appearance of the S9 and the use of smiley faces on the LCD - I happen to like the appearance. As somebody said about their friend "Karl" I don't want my bedroom looking like an invalid lives there. When I was first diagnosed the bulky looking box with a tube and mask really put me off. I put the CPAP away for several months until my sleep deprivation got so bad it overcame my reluctance and I got the box out again. And as to the smiley faces - I think that is a better approach for most patients because most of us do not understand the numbers. The numbers are still there for the Xpap geeks, like myself, who are interested enough to learn what they mean and how to interpret them and for the professional.

As to the discussion about cpap being as good as apap, I fall on the side of apap for me. Fortunately while I have sleep apnea I do not have any other breathing problems so I am not difficult to diagnose. The apap helps me avoid sleep studies. I am able to make tweaks to improve my treatment without having to undergo a sleep study or guess what might work better. Since one sleep study costs my insurance company and me more than an Apap it makes financial sense to use the apap instead of the cpap and multiple sleep studies. And that does not take into consideration how uncomfortable the sleep study is. And before anybody jumps on me I do see the benefit of having an initial sleep study to diagnose what is going on and perhaps subsequent studies if the apap cannot be tweaked sufficiently or at some arbitrary time period to make sure the diagnosis remains the same.

Larry

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ozij
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Re: Meet the minds behind the S9

Post by ozij » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:00 am

Larry, I happen to belong to the 50% of humanity that is female.

That's what the "F" in my profile stands for.
O.

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Bob3000
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Re: Meet the minds behind the S9

Post by Bob3000 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:15 am

ozij wrote: How fascinating. When it's your postion, its 90% of the population. When its mine, it becomes "a small number".

10% of a very very large population is a large number of individuals. Suffering individuals, as jnk said. You may prefer to ignore them in the name of science. I prefer to observe them using my best logical and scientific abilities, in the name of attemting to help individual people.

Enough time spent on this thread.
Wow.

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Re: Meet the minds behind the S9

Post by Satsleep » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:24 am

ozij wrote:Larry, I happen to belong to the 50% of humanity that is female.

That's what the "F" in my profile stands for.
O.
Please accept my apology for misstating your gender.

Larry

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Re: Meet the minds behind the S9

Post by billbolton » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:48 pm

rested gal wrote:Count me as another who does not consider "autopap" to be a "solved problem."
Me too

Cheers,

Bill

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Re: Meet the minds behind the S9

Post by dsm » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:45 pm

Getting back to the original theme of this thread

Here is one of Apple's iPad promo videos. Pls feel free to comment on any similarities in style & format
I suspect some folk will see it as very similar & some others may feel it bears no resemblance at all to
Resmed's advertising agency effort - what forums are made of.

Enjoy

http://www.apple.com/ipad/#video

There is a Youtube version but whilst I had it on my iPhone - I can't find it from my PC at the moment ...

DSM
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Re: Meet the minds behind the S9

Post by jnk » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:19 pm

dsm wrote:Getting back to the original theme of this thread

Here is one of Apple's iPad promo videos. Pls feel free to comment on any similarities in style & format
I suspect some folk will see it as very similar & some others may feel it bears no resemblance at all to
Resmed's advertising agency effort - what forums are made of.

Enjoy

http://www.apple.com/ipad/#video

There is a Youtube version but whilst I had it on my iPhone - I can't find it from my PC at the moment ...

DSM
Does the iPad provide medical therapy now?

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Re: Meet the minds behind the S9

Post by rested gal » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:33 pm

jnk wrote:Does the iPad provide medical therapy now?
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Re: Meet the minds behind the S9

Post by dsm » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:55 pm

jnk wrote:
dsm wrote:Getting back to the original theme of this thread

Here is one of Apple's iPad promo videos. Pls feel free to comment on any similarities in style & format
I suspect some folk will see it as very similar & some others may feel it bears no resemblance at all to
Resmed's advertising agency effort - what forums are made of.

Enjoy

http://www.apple.com/ipad/#video

There is a Youtube version but whilst I had it on my iPhone - I can't find it from my PC at the moment ...

DSM
Does the iPad provide medical therapy now?
Dial an RT - video talk to him & read his e-book
Plus - plug in your SD card & view your data - gotta happen sooner or later

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Re: Meet the minds behind the S9

Post by DreamDiver » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:15 pm

The S9 comes in more than the Auto flavor. But here's another perspective on autos. Regardless whether some people need them or not, I'm interested in the newer ones because of their diagnostic capabilities in conjunction with newer software. No, they aren't a full diagnosis, but if I can see that I may have period breathing or centrals by using my machine, I have a better chance of proving to a sleep doc that what I'm seeing at home may warrant further study or a different machine. Autos are getting inexpensive enough that they can be used to titrate, diagnose and then lock in a wider array of very specific options for a wider number of users. That's why I'd rather have an auto. I may end up using CPAP mode if it gives me better therapy, but it's nice to know that if I just lost 50 pounds I can retitrate more easily without having to go to a sleep doc at $1500 - $3000 per sleep study. I like gadgets. I want to be a self-advocate for my sleep therapy. Let's rephrase that - I'm a control freak about my sleep therapy.

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Re: Meet the minds behind the S9

Post by dsm » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:30 pm

DreamDiver wrote:The S9 comes in more than the Auto flavor. But here's another perspective on autos. Regardless whether some people need them or not, I'm interested in the newer ones because of their diagnostic capabilities in conjunction with newer software. No, they aren't a full diagnosis, but if I can see that I may have period breathing or centrals by using my machine, I have a better chance of proving to a sleep doc that what I'm seeing at home may warrant further study or a different machine. Autos are getting inexpensive enough that they can be used to titrate, diagnose and then lock in a wider array of very specific options for a wider number of users. That's why I'd rather have an auto. I may end up using CPAP mode if it gives me better therapy, but it's nice to know that if I just lost 50 pounds I can retitrate more easily without having to go to a sleep doc at $1500 - $3000 per sleep study. I like gadgets. I want to be a self-advocate for my sleep therapy. Let's rephrase that - I'm a control freak about my sleep therapy.
DreamDiver,

Good points - senior execs of the major vendors have stated publicly that home titration (be it by a sleep evaluation screening device or a highly data capable xPAP) is expected to take off this year.

The argument goes that there just aren't enough sleep clinics (booked out well in advance) & the sleep clinic process is both expensive & very time consuming.
I am sure we all agree that sleep clinics have & will continue to have a crucial role, but the more people who *need* therapy who get onto it quicker via sleep screening / machine data performed as home evaluation, the less the cost to the nation.

Sure home titration will not always identify complex problems, but that is what Drs can make use of clinics for, send the obvious complex cases to a clinic. For the apparent vanilla OSA patients do a home titration. The data provided by these newer machines, taken in the more relaxed environment of the home, has its value. It seems that less people will fall through the net than is happening today.

DSM
Last edited by dsm on Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Meet the minds behind the S9

Post by ozij » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:41 pm

jnk wrote:
dsm wrote:Getting back to the original theme of this thread

Here is one of Apple's iPad promo videos. Pls feel free to comment on any similarities in style & format
I suspect some folk will see it as very similar & some others may feel it bears no resemblance at all to
Resmed's advertising agency effort - what forums are made of.

Enjoy

http://www.apple.com/ipad/#video

There is a Youtube version but whilst I had it on my iPhone - I can't find it from my PC at the moment ...

DSM
Does the iPad provide medical therapy now?

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Additional Comments: Machine: Resmed AirSense10 for Her with Climateline heated hose ; alternating masks.
And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Good advice is compromised by missing data
Forum member Dog Slobber Nov. 2023

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Re: Meet the minds behind the S9

Post by dsm » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:45 am

ozij wrote:
jnk wrote:
dsm wrote:Getting back to the original theme of this thread

Here is one of Apple's iPad promo videos. Pls feel free to comment on any similarities in style & format
I suspect some folk will see it as very similar & some others may feel it bears no resemblance at all to
Resmed's advertising agency effort - what forums are made of.

Enjoy

http://www.apple.com/ipad/#video

There is a Youtube version but whilst I had it on my iPhone - I can't find it from my PC at the moment ...

DSM
Does the iPad provide medical therapy now?
Drain

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ThinkPositive

Re: Meet the minds behind the S9

Post by ThinkPositive » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:51 am

Well, my opinion is this.

The people in that video, people who designed and developed the S9, as well as the people who designed and developed the video and the website, who we don't see but we can see what they produced as well, obviously care about a few things. Most people do. I will not suppose to be able to say exactly what these people care about as I cannot presume to know their thoughts intimately. And they are not one single person with one single mind.

What I can see is that they collectively, and apparently individually, care about making something that looks nice. It is of course a subjective opinion of what looks nice, and not all may agree. What I think must be recognized is that the S9 product, the videos and the website is different to what ResMed has produced before. Did they do it to make it look worse? Obviously not. They believe it looks better. Would they bring out a new product that they believe works worse than their current, very successful, products. Obviously not. They also believe it is a superior product. They have told us all these things by their work.

Now if some people disagree and believe it looks worse, performs worse (without having used on ein most cases it seems), then that is fine. That is their opinion and it is perfectly valid for them.
What is not valid is to say that trying to make a product that looks nicer, performs better, and trying to show the dealer/distributor, clinical and patient audiences that you believe in what you have produced is good can be considered a bad thing. How is it a bad thing that people care about what they do in their work? They say they care. Does anyone know these people to say they do not care? So, I have to take their queue that they show that they care by trying to do things differently in all these ways.

Anyone who has ever been involved with trying to make something different will find those who disagree with their efforts. What you cannot do is say thet their efforts do not exist. You also cannot say that their efforts are not genuine. You do not know that, so you cannot claim it to be a fact, even if you think it for some reason of your own.

When were people ever criticized for trying to improve something? Only in really dismal times in history or in really dismal societies. Effort is good. It takes effort to change a successful product and its representation. I believe the people involved in the S9, the videos and the website went to effort. That is almost undeniable. Only a particularly negative and dismissive attitude could claim that not to be the case.

Please don't attack the intentions or the integrity of the people who say they are trying to do something better. They have at least the courage to put their best efforts on show for all to see and criticize. Please don't think that a company makes products, videos or websites. People do this. These are the people whose work we can see. I trust that these people have made effort. I have to commend people for making effort. I suggest it is wise to rate the product based on actual cases where it has been used by real people and not merely by the opinion of one person over another as to whether they agree with subjective aspects of design or presentation.

Not everybody agrees on what looks good in cars, houses, clothing, decorations, jewelry and even peoples appearance. What must be commended in my opinion is when people try to improve upon something. That is not easy. That takes work. That will not always be agreed on by all other people. That does not matter. It is the intention that matters and the intention cannot be denied and should not be attacked.

Believe me when I say that there is nothing insincere about the intent and efforts of the people you see in these videos. I have my own reasons for believing that. I would only ask that others recognize obvious effort when they see it, and have some respect for any people who make an effort.