Don't blame RT/DME

-SWS wrote: It sounds as if you might subscribe to that decision-making social theory known as The Wisdom of Crowds.

The concept certainly has some appeal, but I would fall back on the freedom of the individual to make decisions affecting himself. If that individual wants to use or ignore the Widom of Crowds, it's his decision to make.

BTW, is Wisdom of the Crowds what we are talking about when we say “common knowledge of the forum”?

-SWS wrote:
I happen to also think that type of "laissez faire" and analytically-diverse approach describes the effectiveness of this forum.

Experts in general: When I encounter those who repeatedly remind crowds like ours why they should be taken as experts, then I tend to see gratification of basic social needs instead. Let the information stand in its own two legs.

Yep, I agree with that.

-SWS, I have a feeling that there is something in here that I can use to start a roaring argument with you. But I just don’t see it yet.

cinco777 wrote:

No need for a government body, just a clear plan of action and hurdles plus few bits of paper that a doc can sign to say you reached x y or z level of treatment competence or whatever.

Ludicrous suggestion IMHO. Please read my signature line for details.

Ludicrous for a user of your knowledge perhaps.

So, whats to be done, no one seems happy with things the way they from what I read on here. Remove this forum from the equation and what would YOU do to create the ideal journey from diagnosis to competence and the best possible treatment/value for money.

I think I am missing something here, I thought there was a desire to take responsibility for your own treatment and that the doctors and providers simply muddy the waters for the sake of profit. They can do this because they have qualified their expertise. You all say that this knowledge is simple to learn. Then why not be seen to have done so and qualify your own expertise and take the power to profit from our ignorance away from them.

This all reminds me of a joke I heard...

Paddy and Mary went to counselling after 25 years of marriage. The therapist asked what the problem was. Mary had a list, loneliness, neglect and she felt unloved. Finally the therapist asked Mary to stand up, he unbuttoned her blouse, caressed her and kissed her passionately " This is what your wife needs three times a week. Can you do this Paddy"?


Paddy thought for a second and said " I could drop her off on Monday and Wednesday but I go fishing on Fridays.


I wonder what he did for a living

rooster wrote: -SWS, I have a feeling that there is something in here that I can use to start a roaring argument with you. But I just don’t see it yet.

rooster wrote: BTW, is Wisdom of the Crowds what we are talking about when we say “common knowledge of the forum”?

I think what we have been referring to as "common knowledge" tends to be an acquiescent or consensus type of group thinking---and reflects acceptance after that consensus conclusion has been formulated. By contrast, I think the Wisdom of Crowds theory tends to describe a collective decision-making process---a process that relies on the analytical divergence of a highly diverse and multi-talented crowd voicing a cacophony of challenging opinions.

There tends to be a little less acquiescence and a little more analytical strife and grind in that latter highly productive decision-making group behavior.

deadhead77 wrote: So, whats to be done, no one seems happy with things the way they from what I read on here. Remove this forum from the equation and what would YOU do to create the ideal journey from diagnosis to competence and the best possible treatment/value for money.

This forum provides for communication with fellow patients, from newbies to the very experienced. If there were no internet forum then i would seek out a local A.W.A.K.E Sleep Apnea support group and start attending their meetings.

I disagree with the requirement to pass some test or prove myself worthy of customizing my own therapy.

Given the differences between health care systems your time might be better spent over here http://www.cpap.co.uk/

Well done my son, you certainly don't disappoint do you . Not one clear answer as to what 'YOU' think is a good way forward other than for people to stumble upon this forum

You have obviously taken exception to me my friend, you have chosen to laugh at my opinion rather than consider what I have said as posted with good intent, as good as called me stupid and suggested I go away.

Perhaps I should, I am used to innovative thinking and an open minded view of things.

You did not answer my last reference to your last post so I will take that as an admission of ignorance.

LinkC wrote:

DoriC wrote: I'm always finding something I didn't know before and if so inclined I will research it further to make sure it's accurate.

DoriC wrote: I don't find too much misinformation here, just differing opinions.

Not talking about opinions. (You know what opinions are like... ) I'm talking about advice based on "facts"...which aren't, or "common knowledge"...which is neither.

Ah, the "Common Knowledge" & "Fact" posts, I had forgotten about those! Thanks for the reminder, Link!:?

deadhead77 wrote:Incidentally, I just read a couple of my posts of yesterday, what a prat! talk about up my own arse Mind you, there were two pints of 'Old Speckled Hen' in there... sorry about that.

Oh its 'Old Specked Hen' time again

deadhead77 wrote:Well done my son, you certainly don't disappoint do you . Not one clear answer as to what 'YOU' think is a good way forward other than for people to stumble upon this forum

I did make a suggestion in my previous post, here it is again
If there were no internet forum then i would seek out a local A.W.A.K.E Sleep Apnea support group and start attending their meetings.

deadhead77 wrote: You have obviously taken exception to me my friend, you have chosen to laugh at my opinion rather than consider what I have said as posted with good intent, as good as called me stupid and suggested I go away.

I do not know you but i know i love 'Old Speckled Hen'
This is a discussion forum, I'm not the only person posting negatively about your proposed one size fits all mandatory doctor signed and rubber stamped CPAP starter course.

deadhead77 wrote: So, you do not think it would be a benefit to those less intelligent or clever as you to be given a clear path through all the steps to competent cpap use and understanding, you would rather leave it all to pot luck. At the moment it seems to me reading these boards that most new users have enough to contend with just getting themselves into routines and solving simple stuff. Out of respect for the seriousness of osa and the damage it can do to general health 'I' feel that a structured progression leading up to adjusting things yourself, is a far safer and manageable way than letting everyone do their own thing.

I do not think people should be given the machine and sent on their way. A good DME should do the explaining and stuff you mentioned. Its would be so hard to structure CPAP treatment, we are all different physically, emotionally and many are coping with other related issues. Such structuring and mandatory training and certification might overwhelm people. I remember getting my machine and thinking to myself "Ok, show me the basics and let me go and work with this." My DME gave me my machine with the clinical menu unlocked and showed me how to adjust my pressure. I was set at 7cm and told not to go over 10cm as i may induce centrals. So off I went with the instruction to call back if I have any other questions or problems.
So off i went and fiddled (which you say is ridiculous) with my pressure 7-10, my epr setting, my ramp, my mask fitting. In no time was I in any danger

deadhead77 wrote: Why would Resmed not want patients to self monitor and 'fiddle'?? Could you explain why that is please.

No, you would have to ask Resmed

deadhead77 wrote: You should also take a walk around a typical British hospital, there you will find people from all over the world being treated whether they have insurance or not. We turn no one away and it costs us what it costs.

I have not heard of anyone being turned away from an Emergency room here either.

deadhead77 wrote: Don't knock it till you have tried it.

I was born in England and left when I was 21. So yeah I've tried it, Have you tried the American system?

Cheers

You know I'm right, I bet I get Obama phoning me up next to sort out the banking mess.


What a guy

Hi All

I thought I would have a bit of a holiday from contentious posts, mainly mine and my opposite number of whatever is the contention I am currently contending.

But it is very tempting to be contentious about contentious posts where contentiousness starts to overwhelm the non-contentious content. Especially when I am in withdrawall from active contentiousness.

If Rooster and I can live in peace, then I reckon anyone can, even you guys.

When contentiousness starts to be the main focus of a thread, no matter who the main contentioner may be, it is time to relax, go down to the pub, and have a few cold one's (or in England, a few hot one's, preferably Tetley's.)

Here's a toast to contention, may it be interesting, provoking, informative, with no collateral damage.

cheers

Mars

-SWS wrote:There tends to be a little less acquiescence and a little more analytical strife and grind in that latter highly productive decision-making group behavior.

Ain't that the truth!

rooster wrote:

LinkC wrote: Don't take just anything (even what *I* post) as gospel...

Ditto.

I disagree with the "theory of experts". That is not the power of the forum. The power is that the forum is open to all comments and we can learn from novices and veterans. I feel free to post advice here because there are plenty of people who will speak up if they think my advice is wrong.

One definition of an expert: A person who can learn no more.

Rooster, I love that quote and it got me thinking. I never really knew how to address all of you who came before me and were so willing to share your knowledge and expertise, so I settled on "expert" or "pro" and got no objections, but you've got me thinking that maybe even the veterans like you are learning something from the newcomers or the in-betweeners like me. I guess it's possible?

deadhead77 wrote: You know I'm right, I bet I get Obama phoning me up next to sort out the banking mess.


What a guy

I'm happy you are right. Sweet dreams on your CPAP.

Wow! my first dream in years...

I was on this stage, there were celebs applauding and whistling... There were giant before and after pictures around the walls showing what appeared to be a monkeys cpap party. There were people with cpap masks on the backs of their heads, hoses hanging out of their arses ,steam coming out their ears all looking confused.

Then shots of them reading.

Then I am standing in front of them, they are all wearing their masks properly, with PASSED rubber stamped on their foreheads.

As I hand the first one their certificate of excellence for putting on a mask, Nelson Mandela and the Pope both applaud and hand them a booklet with NOW DEALING WITH LEAKS emblazoned on the cover. The hissing hoser is now greeted by her majesty the Queen who awards them the OSA medal of phase one competence and a crotchless hose cover...

Was it just a dream...

rooster wrote:I feel free to post advice here because there are plenty of people who will speak up if they think my advice is wrong.

Which should not be taken to mean that advice ranging from wrong to ridiculous will be automatically corrected like the Spellchecker in a Word document. There's still plenty of people who, because they post stuff, think it is true because it appears in print.

A hundred replies a day with a thousand views. Amazing. Lets see how many my RLS Augmentation thread gets.

I'll say "three" and "fifty" respectively.

Oh well, I guess there's plenty of people out there who have good reason to be angry.

I'm heading outside to do the Asteroid Dance again.

Muffy

It is really amazing that as soon as one of these threads disappears some other self named RT slithers out of the wood pile and starts another.

If I was into conspiracy theories I would think they do it on purpose to scare off the newbies "See what an argumentative board that is - don't go there (and get educated because then we can't make lots of money off you)" . Kind of like they are leaching our energy so we don't have time or energy to help others and they get us fighting amongst ourselves. Kind of like "divide and conquer". I have seen this done in other political minority communities by the press and the cops.

Or do you suppose these phoney RT's are funded by DME & manufacturers lobbies?

But really - no - that can't be true- can it?