Problems in Canada with Socialized Medicine?

Maryland_Mike wrote:I think it is wrong to steal, and cowardly to use the government to steal for you.

Civilization is not about being your brother's keeper. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.

Maybe but then there are women and children and the elderly.

What you describe is anarchy and it has never been beneficial to anyone except bullies.

Maryland_Mike wrote: ......... Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.

That is the promise of our Constitution and that is how this country was built.

dels wrote:Sorry, but first of all, no one know one knows where some one is from.

Well, when I reply to someone who SAYS they are from Virginia, I generally take their word for it...

dels wrote:I choose to live in a country where people can have health care. It is why many years ago when I was being recruited to the states, I did not go. I did not want to live in a way where for example because of my education or moeny I would have health care and some one else would not. That goes against my principals for a just society.

If you are happy with socialistic "principals" (sic), go for it! I'm happier where *I* can CHOOSE the size and destination of my charitible contrubutions.

dels wrote:I am sick and tired of the Canada bashing on the TV lately.

Look for the button that says "Off, eh". We don't get much of that down here.

dels wrote:I sure as heck am saying your not the one to judge this.

That's apparently true in Canada, but for the time being Americans can still choose whether to support bad habits.

dels wrote: I also feel every one should be given a chance in life to be able to work hard, to get a good education and to have health care.

Virtually everyone in the US and Canada HAS that chance. Some CHOOSE not to take advantage of the opportunity. Do you think they should still reap the same rewards and benefits as those who do? (And at the expense of those who do!)

Linc, Gotta say, I sure am glad your not part of my family! And I am quite sure you feel the same way. In the mean time, am I ever glad I made the decision all those years back to stay in Canada!

dels wrote:In the mean time, am I ever glad I made the decision all those years back to stay in Canada!

Yes, I agree entirely. We have way too many socialists here already, without importing them from Canada.

Last night my daughter slipped in the kitchen and sliced open her forearm with a very sharp kitchen knife. Very deep wound, blood all over the place.

The hospital is just down the street, as is our doctor. Stopped in at our docs office to have him examine (if I can save myself a trip to the ER anyday I will). He directed us to the hosp as he wanted to ensure she did not nick any tendons/ligaments, otherwise he would have stitched her up there.

Got to emerg. Was in and out in an hour. No stitches...they have glued her back together. Seemingly no issues with tendons/ligaments, however has a follow up appointment with a plastic surgeon today.

Yup, I guess we have really long wait times huh?

Uncle just had a 5 hour open heart surgery yesterday. When he is released will have homecare nurse for a month during his convelescence. Cost? parking for my mom. Speed and wait time for surgery? Two weeks from diagnosis to surgery as he was "non emergent". (and this is in a small community in the north, not a big city with doctors everywhere).

Is the system perfect? nope, but none are and I'll take ours any day of the week. I have been in and out of doctors all year dealing with minor health concerns, taking a proactive approach to my health. Deal with it now to save things getting worse in the future. I've have very little wait times for any of the specialists I've needed to see. In fact, one of them pissed me off so badly with his "I am God" complex that I turfed him and got a referral to another one. I have that choice because of how our system is set up. No one forces me to choose one doctor over another. Oh...as a funny side note...the doctor I turfed was an American who chose to move and practice in Canada...not sure why but I would have been interested in asking him if his ego wasn't filling up the room.

Learned something here. Canadians are really sensitive about their medical system being labeled as socialistic. I had no idea. It's important to be careful not to push people's buttons, just to get a reaction, so I'll be careful about the label.

However, I continue to believe that the Canadian system, while very good for urgent care, is very weak in other areas. I had a hip replacement almost 4 years ago. I am horrified to read how long the wait for "elective" surgery is.

I hated the idea of a hip replacement, because it puts restrictions on my activities. I can't be a baseball/softball umpire in the summer any more, and I hate that. But I waited as long as I could. I couldn't walk normally any more. I couldn't sleep on my side any more. It hurt to sit, it hurt to walk, it hurt to stand. I was taking so much Aleve that my blood was as thin as alcohol and healing a simple cut took 2 weeks. When I finally went in, the last thing I would have wanted to hear was, "it'll be a year or two before we can take care of that."

I was and am employed, I have an HMO, and only had to pay a couple of co-pays to get the surgery. I waited one month.

I'd really like to see a combination of what Canada has and what I currently have. Great urgent care, and the ability to have a supplemental plan if desired.

JimIllinois wrote:Learned something here. Canadians are really sensitive about their medical system being labeled as socialistic. I had no idea. It's important to be careful not to push people's buttons, just to get a reaction, so I'll be careful about the label.

However, I continue to believe that the Canadian system, while very good for urgent care, is very weak in other areas. I had a hip replacement almost 4 years ago. I am horrified to read how long the wait for "elective" surgery is.


I'd really like to see a combination of what Canada has and what I currently have. Great urgent care, and the ability to have a supplemental plan if desired.

Here in Quebec you used to be able to buy elective surgery insurance coverage for hips and knees so you could jump the line - They just canceled it because nobody bought it!
You can have supplemental plans through work or just privately. My brother in law just had his stomach stapled that way with minimal wait times.

And I don't mind being called a socialist - Quebec is proud of its socialist government protecting and providing for its citizens.

rooster wrote:
One observation about the forum, does anyone notice that many of the members who regularly post vitrol against the "evil" insurance and pharmaceutical companies support the same type of plan that the "evil" insurance and pharmaceutical companies support? Something's rotten in Denmark.

Denmark has an excellent economy and socialist government with universal health care that is far better then Canada's or the US

I think Jim part of the wait times is also predicated on location.

My sister in laws dad had a hip replacement last year after only a two month wait, and just had a two knee replacements within a month of each other, with a short wait time as well.

If you are in a large urban center with access to many doctors and specialties the wait doesn't seem as long.

I'm sure residents in small country towns across the US face wait times as well when trying to access certain types of care.

The problem is only the negative stories are published from up here. No one thinks twice about it if they get care in a timely manner (which is the majority), and those stories go unpublished.

Take my sleep study/apnea treatment. I was referred to a sleep clinic. Within a day or two I was called in for an appointment (the next day). I held off the appointment until the weekend so I wouldn't have to rearrange my schedule. So far we are at less than one week from referral to sleep study.

First study occured on a Friday night. I was called back on Saturday after getting back home to come in for titration (they wanted me back that same night). Due to my own insecurities, and freak out mode (as I was not expecting an actual OSA diagnosis), I held off another week. HOWEVER, I could have had it immediately. Titration was done, I met with the sleep doctor within a couple of weeks, and came to terms with this whole thing. All said, if I hadn't been so freaked out by the whole thing, I could have gone from referral, and through the whole process in two weeks. We are however in a large center, with access to many sleep clinics etc. Ask someone in Northern Ontario how long it might be a little longer.

Point is. You don't hear these stories, we hear the bizarre, potentially slipped through the cracks stories. How many of those negative stories are the result of patients not stepping up and looking at alternatives. I think part of the problem is as Canadians we have gotten lazy and know the care is there but also expect it to be there when we need it. I take my mom as an example. She needs a knee replacement. She could be seen here in my city within a very short period of time but doesn't want to travel here (3 hours) to have it tended to quickly. She moans that it will take months and months where she is but forgets there is only one or two surgeons in her area servicing 250 000 people in the north spread out across a huge geographical area. Her wait time would be dramatically reduced if she would simply consider coming here to have it done. It's not like she wouldn't be able to stay here for as long as she needs to.

I don't think it is because we are overly sensitive. I think it is because we are getting sick and tired of some one else bashing our system in order to meet their own personal agenda's.

It has been really bad laltely, and I personally am tired of it. It's kind of like even to this day we still see top level goverment officials in the USA say the 911 terrorists came in via Canada........and each and every one of the came in Via the USA, and with the papers issued by the USA government.

I think it is time to stop saying whats bad about the way we do things, and let Canadians say what we feel is good or bad, and then those in the USA can sort out their own mess without using Canadians as a pawn in your various arguements. And it is both ways, I dont like those on the side of reform using us as an example for why you should change things.

I went to Virginia and I could not believe how many people were asking me things like "Is it true you have to wait days to be seen by a doctor in emergency?". First of all it is not, secondly, always remember, horror storries happen every where, no matter where you go you have mistakes.

Obviously the USA system is flawed other wise you would not be having the discussion for a need to health care, it is interesting that people say we must wait to long for a hip replacement, and yet no one discusses the fact millions of people have no health care in the USA and can never have a hip replacement.

As for hips, a dear friend of mine waited five months for one,she could have had it done private, and even had insurance for it to be done private, but she elected to wait and have it done in the public system...........as do many people. She also could have waited less time public but she wanted only one doctor to do it, and he is a very busy doctor and can only do so many surgeries per day. But these were choices she made.

dels - My employers daughter informed me the other day that in Canada they kill all deformed babies and people over the age of 65. That is the rumors they spread here in the states.

raggedykat wrote:dels - My employers daughter informed me the other day that in Canada they kill all deformed babies and people over the age of 65. That is the rumors they spread here in the states.

Believe me I am well aware of it as I have family in the States and when they tell me this stuff I just cannot believe it some times. The one that gets me the most upset is about 911 though. So easy to blame some one else for ones own mistake. All of the terrorists in 911 were issued Visa's by the USA to come into the USA to study and entered via the USA and not Canada. It is upsetting to hear politicians , senior ones who should know better perpetuate this myth to this day. Like I said stop looking at what other's do wrong until ones own house is cleaned up.

raggedykat wrote:dels - My employers daughter informed me the other day that in Canada they kill all deformed babies and people over the age of 65. That is the rumors they spread here in the states.

Wow. I'm speechless, but I'll admit, I laughed at the rediculousness of that.