Problems in Canada with Socialized Medicine?

MapleG wrote:Kiralynx-since you have an interest in the topic, here is a web page on Wikipedia you may find of interest. Just found it right now. I just skimmed through it, and it looks like it was primarily written by someone living in Ontario..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(Canada)

Ah, thank you. That is very interesting. <g> Obviously, someone needs to round up people from each of the provinces to get properly province-centric data in the article.

More people should read articles like that.

BlackSpinner wrote:Canada In 4th Place. <snip> The US comes 13th

Somehow not surprising. Of course, statistics can be divided into two classes: lies, and d@mned lies. I think I'd want to look at the raw data and see how it was filtered and what factors were included or excluded.

There is a phenomenal amount of misinformation out there about "wait times" in Canada. Here's the wikipedia entry that repeats the data collected by Canadians' actual experience with wait times: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_car ... Wait_times -- you will see that median wait times are much, much, much less than is often reported.

My family has had (unfortunately) a lot of experience with the Canadian health care system. When my husband was in a serious bike accident, he had multiple major diagnostic procedures (MRI and CAN scan) on an emergency basis within hours of being admitted to hospital, and one of the tests was delayed only so some swelling could go down. His subsequent bike accidents have all been minor (broken wrist, leg gash requiring stitches) and in both cases he went to emerg and was seen and released within a few hours, as he was triaged to the front of the line. My dad spent an astonishing 5 weeks in hospital this summer for a staph infection and had 5 major surgeries and two plastic surgeries, and is now in intensive physiotherapy to regain muscle use, and he had his first surgery within 6 hours of presenting to the ER (where he was referred by his physician). My MIL's cancer treatment began two weeks after her diagnosis (initially radiation only; then chemo plus radiation). In my experience, Canada gets acute care right.

Yes, the system is not perfect and I am sure most Canadians have an anecdote about someone with a misdiagnosis or a wait time they consider inappropriate. But the plural of anecdote is not data, and the data w/r/t health care wait times are pretty clear. You may have to become your own advocate to ensure that your care is prioritized by a system that may be indifferent to you as an individual, but where in life is that NOT true?

Someone asked in the Australian thread about research/discoveries and advancements in medicine in other countries.

I found an excellent article on the subject of Canadian advancements. It's a long list, but some very notable entries including research related to Sleep apnea.

Notable entries. First lung transplant.
First artificial heart valve developed and inserted
Insulin and Pablum (although should be noted was before universal health care)
Significant Cancer research and discoveries/treatments

etc etc. Interesting read if you want to check out the whole list. http://www.canadianmedicinenews.com/200 ... earch.html

MoneyGal wrote:In my experience, Canada gets acute care right.

Actually, based on input I've had from a number of Western countries, ACUTE care isn't the issue. In fact, acute care is where Western medicine shines.

It's when you get into chronic illnesses that most medical systems fall down.

MoneyGal wrote:Yes, the system is not perfect and I am sure most Canadians have an anecdote about someone with a misdiagnosis or a wait time they consider inappropriate. But the plural of anecdote is not data, and the data w/r/t health care wait times are pretty clear. You may have to become your own advocate to ensure that your care is prioritized by a system that may be indifferent to you as an individual, but where in life is that NOT true?

Actually, I think it's pretty obvious that most Canadians, while wanting things to be better, consider their health system to be excellent. That's one of the things I wanted to see as a part of this discussion.

And I have to concur with becoming one's own advocate. I think that's true regardless of the health care system you are under. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be as many of us here from all over the world.

However, if, as you say, "Surgeries are set on priority and cancer surgery is at the top of the list." then where are the scare-mongers getting the multiple situations with cancer patients in which the people must wait months for treatment, and if they hadn't paid for treatment in the U.S., they'd be dead?

Old Old stories - the system is always changing.
One story making the rounds about the UK system is from the early 60's - showing how bad cancer treatment is in the UK - never mind that there was no treatment for leukemia back then!!!

I just read the Wikipedia entry on "Medicare (Ontario)."

It is an OK general article, while missing a lot of the background context for healthcare reform in Ontario. I have been on the board of directors of my local community health centre for five years, including a term as VP, and I've been very heavily involved in healthcare reform in Ontario over that past 5 years.

I'm not going to take the time to go and edit the Wikipedia article; I am just going to comment that the article is imprecise.

A few posts back LoQ had informed me that I could get insurance through BCBS, I just was not proactive enough to find insurance. Well, I did call them and they sent me my package yesterday. These are my options with them. 12 month waiting period on all pre-existing conditions, this includes medicines. My premium would be $925.00 a month with a $1500.00 deductible, or $850.00 a month with a $2,500.00 deductible, or $700.00 a month with a $5000.00 deductible. What a great deal!

So, according to LoQ, if I give 33% of my income to the insurance industry, and stop eating, driving my car, and live in a tent I can feel somewhat assured that I will have insurance to cover me in the event of an illness that can not be traced back by the insurance company to anything that I have ever had before.

It is easy for those with to argue with those without.

raggedykat wrote:...

This is what I expect to hear IF I am even insurable . That rate would leave me a few hundred for mortgage & other bills, meds, distilled water, gasoline, internet (required for job searches), cell phone, and oh yes...food, and any unexpected required expenses...how likely are we to have insurance? Can you say NONE. Our healthcare system is so broke.

Muse - If you have been on Cobra there would not be any pre-existing clause but the premiums would still be around the same amount. I think our only hope is to find jobs with group plans. I am trying to get the important stuff done before my insurance ends. I had colon cancer a number of years ago so I am going for a colonoscopy in November and then in January I am getting my pacemaker check-up. I figure if I save the $500.00 a month that I currently pay for my health insurance (and this is with a group plan, single coverage) and use it for doctor visits and prescriptions, I can hopefully make it the next six years until I can get medicare. The teaching college here has an excellant pacemaker department but I don't feel comfortable with having them replace it. So I hope my battery lasts for six more years.