First F/U with dr after cpap start was today

rested gal wrote:Dori, thanks to your posting the words, I was able to do a Google search for those words and found (I think) the post you had in mind:

viewtopic/t3401 ... 46#p290746

Thank you Rested Gal. This makes perfect sense in my mind in relation to my experiences. I have copied it in part for others to see. It is a known fact that I am much worse in REM stage sleep (53 / hr events vs 11 in non REM). I see from my own reports that the hours right before I wake up tend to be my most active in regards to events and/or my nemesis "the cluster". These are also the ones that tend to need the much higher pressures . As with anything there are always exceptions but this offers a very good explanation for what I see.

jnk wrote:

"Patients with SDB are usually worse in the later hours of sleep."--Handbook of Sleep Medicine, Avidan, Zee.

Rested Gal wrote:
I think the quote jnk found is probably true. The operative word in the quote is "usually."

Makes sense to me, since REM (rapid eye movement) cycles usually become longer and longer as sleep progresses through the night. The longest period of REM usually happens in the later hours of sleep toward morning. REM is also when people with OSA usually experience an increased number of apneas.

Generalizations usually have exceptions, I suppose.

RG, I do remember reading and trying to understand this thread with my head pounding and my eyes crossed, until I finally came upon the post from JNK and your reply, FINALLY! I also remember that I sent you a PM about this(and many others), and you very patiently explained everything to me again in greater detail. It's hard to believe that next month will be 1 year. I was such a crybaby wasn't I? If I ever get over my obsession with this board, I should start going on forums that will teach me how to copy and paste! Thanks, Dori

Rustyolddude wrote:

Pugsy wrote:

Rustyolddude wrote:So now you have me thinking that maybe my apneas are occuring during REM and not so much during other periods. Which might have been the my experience at the sleep lab. (still waiting on those reports) They never said I had x number of events only that they saw enough event indicators to prescribe CPAP, I didn't sleep well during the titration or the initial study.

You have the software. Do you see any pattern to the events that might correlate with a say 90 to 120 minute window? I am always much more prone to see groupings at the very latest hours of sleep. With or without meds.
Usually my first 3 hours or so are nearly perfect then I go slide downhill.

Haven't had a chance to follow up on this and look in detail. Been a lousy 2 nights in a row, not with CPAP, just with the sleeping part that goes along with it. But I would have to say the groupings probably favor ~120 minute windows. Is there any way in the software to see how long each apneic event lasts?

As I suspected. it appears I have 3 distinct AI groupings that get get progressivly worse as the night progresses which would make sense with the Ambien. There is 60-120 minutes between each AI grouping.

Last night, I was tired, really tired & sleepy, figured I should nod off without a problem. Skipped the Ambien, baaad decision, bad. Didn't sleep last nite, recall two brief dreams which I was wide awake after each. Had a grand total of 4 AI's, 1H, & 1VS over a 8.25hr period, no leaks BP was thru the roof today not to mention my disposition. Still haven't gotten my study results but I did find out from the DME that the comments in my file referenced "Alpha intrusions" which would make sense. Last nite, everytime I'd hit that transition point of wakefullness to sleep, I'd bolt awake, as if my body was afraid to go to sleep. Stared at the clock, counted, did math in my head, arrrgh. No luck and of course 11pm is the point of no return for Ambien for me. AI's are definately occuring with deep sleep & REM. Good to know. Gotta go take that pill now, can't have another day like today.

robertmarilyn wrote:I thought it meant "flub up" (except spelled differently)

lol That was my first reaction, too... Only I went for the phrase ending with "you". (I've never had the courage to direct that toward a doctor, but have felt like it on occasion!)

LinkC wrote:That was my first reaction, too... Only I went for the phrase ending with "you". (I've never had the courage to direct that toward a doctor, but have felt like it on occasion!)

well it obviously was not my intent to mislead but hey, I guess it got a lot of people's attention.
Lots of good discussion and ideas came out of it and lots of views, so maybe it was a good f/u (not follow up) on my part. If anything mentioned here helped one person, it was a good thing.

Hmm,so now we know what gets attention around here. I'm already thinking of the subject for my next post.

Pugsy wrote:We've talked about mattress toppers.

Anyone have any experience with one of these by Serta?'

http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Se ... oduct.html

Pugs, have you had any "F/U" on this? I'm going out to the mall with a friend today and I think I'd like to check these out in a store if I can find them. I'll let you know. Dori

DoriC wrote: Pugs, have you had any "F/U" on this? I'm going out to the mall with a friend today and I think I'd like to check these out in a store if I can find them

I have not had any f/u on this particular brand. I have heard from handful of people you have the memory foam topper but don't remember brand. All have been positive comments.
Bed, Bath and Beyond has a brand of memory foam toppers. I forget which it is. It is the only local store (still an hours drive for me) that has this sort of thing. For king size in a 2 inch it cost over $300. And medium density.

Overstock.com has the $2.95 shipping which some other sites don't have.
I have pretty much decided to get off the fence and give this 4 " Serta a try. My sister has a 3 " but less dense. It was a little cheaper, and not the Serta. She still loves it and I did lie down on it. Seemed just a bit too soft for my liking so I am hoping the 4 inch and a little heavier will work for me. The plan is to get it ordered next week sometime.

It's not the thickness, it's the foam's density measured as wt per cubic foot -- see if ya can find that measurement Brenda and use it to find the density you like. I like the 4# density of my Isotonic(TM) topper; I don't like the Temper-pedic (TM) 'cause I sank in deeper and then got warm...but that might be due to my wt.

Muse-Inc wrote:It's not the thickness, it's the foam's density measured as wt per cubic foot -- see if ya can find that measurement Brenda and use it to find the density you like. I like the 4# density of my Isotonic(TM) topper;

According to the product description for the topper I found, it has 4 lb density. My sister doesn't have a clue as to hers but it is probably the 3 inch. It is the only one I have had a chance to try to compare to though. From the product description of hers (not a Serta) it did not mention any pound density, and I tend to think if they don't mention it, then they aren't too proud of it. Hers isn't bad, probably medium quality or so. I think it cost around $120. She loves it and that is all that matters. I didn't try sleeping on hers though. I only gave it a short lay down test.

I am thinking that the 4 lbs will also suit me better. I could be all wet. I won't know till I try. There may be others out there that are better but this one is within my budget. Overstock.com has a 5 % off now and $1.00 shipping.
Makes this topper cost less than $180 and that includes the shipping. So, I will give it a shot. 98% of the reviews on the Serta one (in all sizes) were very positive.

Pugsy,
Looks like I'm coming in near the end of this thread, but wanted to offer you (and others who may be interested) a few things. I'm still a bit of a newbie and don't feel I have much technical OSA info to offer at this point, but I'm learning a lot from all of you.

First, I just received from Overstock.com a new E.C.O. 2-inch latex mattress topper ($150). I'm putting it on my bed in a while and will sleep on it for the first time tonight. Will let you know how it goes. You may remember me from an earlier post I made about some of my issues (I think back pain was one of them). So the topper is one of my attempts to address the back pain. It has been an ongoing issue for years. I don't think my pain is inflammatory, as yours is. Instead, it seems to be more about muscle tension. My 10-11 year-old mattress really is a bit harder than I'd like, and I need to replace it, but can't swing it financially right now. At any rate, I expect it's contributing to the pain and I'm hoping the topper will help.

Second, when I can afford a new mattress, I'm thinking I might get a Comfortaire mattress. Sounds like they are equal in quality to the Sleep-by-Number beds, but cheaper. I think they sell online only, so that may be the reason they're cheaper (less overhead). Go to http://www.comfortairdirect.com. I priced a mattress last week (a low-end model) for about $700 (mattress only w/out foundation). I think they were having a sale. Don't know if it's still on.

Third, check out this web site for info and reviews on mattresses and toppers: http://sleeplikethedead.com/. I ran across this site last week after stumbling onto a YouTube video on mattresses.

Fourth, some time ago I ran across a natural product in the Chapel Hill, NC Whole Foods that might be helpful for your inflammatory pain. I was looking for something for my sister, who has pain issues, and I actually bought her a bottle. I don't think she tried it, though, because she was afraid it would interact with some of her other meds. So I can't offer any real feedback on its effectiveness. The product is called Itis Care and is made by a company called Narula Research. While doing a Google search, I ran across a recent article in the Chapel Hill newspaper: http://www.chapelhillnews.com/news/story/51282.html. Not sure if Whole Foods would carry this at every outlet, but you could check it out. According to the article, it is sold at other natural foods outlets. Might be worth a look. I think I remember it is a bit pricey--maybe around $35. You can read about turmeric and its role in reducing inflammation on this web site: http://www.wholehealthmd.com

Hope this might help you, or someone else out there. Many of you have been really helpful to me. Will update you all in another post soon.

wearysoul wrote:I just received from Overstock.com a new E.C.O. 2-inch latex mattress topper ($150). I'm putting it on my bed in a while and will sleep on it for the first time tonight. Will let you know how it goes.

I just received the 2 inch Serta memory foam topper yesterday. This one I ordered for my husband to put in the sleeper of this truck. I also had ordered a 4 inch Serta Ultimate memory foam topper. Both from Overstock.com.
Gosh, I ordered them Sunday night and yesterday the 2 inch arrived. Couldn't wait, so I put it on my bed on my half of the king size bed. I will have to say that I had probably the best night of sleep that I have had in a very long time. I am not sure, but I don't think I moved much. I have felt much more refreshed today even getting a little less than 7 hours of sleep. Would have slept longer but woke up and realized that some dumb .... had forgot to fill her humidifier last night. Ooops.

So today the 4 inch topper arrives and I am letting it air out but will sleep on it tonight. I will give it a few nights to see how it does but if anything like the 2 inch topper, oh boy, I will be happy.

We can start a new thread in a few days to compare how it goes with our new experiment.

My AHI last night was barely 1.0. I had zero clusters of events. I don't think I tossed and turned nearly as much.
I need more nights on this new thing to see if it holds true.

I paid around $80 for the twin size 2 inch, and $175 for the king size 4 inch. Both have a rating of 4 lb density.
Overstock.com had a shipping special over the weekend. $1 shipping got both items and considering the 56 lb weight on the king size topper, a heck of a good deal...

Pugsy, so glad you had a restful night with a good report to prove it. Now I can't wait for your update on the next few nights. Then I'll make the big purchase too.

Can anyone tell me what's the difference between latex and memory foam?? Thanks, Dori

DoriC wrote:Can anyone tell me what's the difference between latex and memory foam?? Thanks, Dor

Latex topper example
http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/E. ... oduct.html

What I bought that will be used tonight.
http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Se ... oduct.html

the 2 inch that I used last night
http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Se ... oduct.html

Latex appears to be a different sort of foam topper. I don't have any experience with it at all. I have read that the memory foam tends to retain heat but the one I got supposedly doesn't do that so much. Hmmm. I will tell you that if this 57 yr old female with raging menopausal hormones doesn't get hot, then the memory foam isn't so bad. My sister is in the full throes of menopause and she has no problems with heat retention using her memory foam topper.

Now you have to do some more research Dori... I did not see this when I was shopping for mine.


per the product info at the above link
# Latex provides up to 33-percent more pressure relief than conventional foam and fiber cushion materials
# Naturally derived from the tropical rubber tree
# Latex is an organic rubber based product that is highly resilient and breathable, and does not hold the heat in like memory foam, providing a better nights sleep

Oh, WearySoul, you did come in at the end of this thread and Pugsy was supposed to be my guide, but it looks like I'll need your input too. I was so sure about memory foam but now.......hmm? Please keep me posted, I really want to help my husband. Thanks. Dori