Is it Illegal to Change Settings on One's CPAP Machine?

HEY. machines are going AUTOMATIC..
Getting really smart machine makes great sense..

UPGRADE if you can?

Why would one fool with changing their setting.. .
Too powerful .. not enough.. how would one know without an evaluation.


Bass

Bassasasin wrote:HEY. machines are going AUTOMATIC..
Getting really smart machine makes great sense..

UPGRADE if you can?

Why would one fool with changing their setting.. .
Too powerful .. not enough.. how would one know without an evaluation.


Bass

SOFTWARE!

Evaluation? I get one every night......because I check my data every morning.

Single pressure (CPAP mode) works best for me.

Den

Bassasasin wrote:HEY. machines are going AUTOMATIC..
Getting really smart machine makes great sense..

UPGRADE if you can?

Why would one fool with changing their setting.. .
Too powerful .. not enough.. how would one know without an evaluation.


Bass

Is that you, Chris Squire?!

Jeff wrote:
Next time an RT tells you it is illegal for you to adjust the pressures on your machine, just let your eyes get big and say, "Oh, really, I didn't know that. Thanks." Then walk away smiling to yourself that you know something they are not allowed to know--that people have the right to adjust their own machines.

Be careful with the feelings of medical people. They can be very sensitive. We don't want to make them cry, or worry, or do anything drastic to themselves. Have some empathy for them. As long as we know what is true, they don't have to. They believe what they believe, so let them believe it. Then, when you get home and lock your door, be thankful that the RTs are locked out of your house and bedroom, and that the phantom CPAP dream police that come to them in their beds to arrest them don't live in our heads like they do in theirs. Then we can sleep at night, and so can they.

Jeff,

You're such a sweet & sensitive ole soul. I'd like to have you in my corner any day!

Hugs,
Joy

Bassasasin wrote:HEY. machines are going AUTOMATIC..
Getting really smart machine makes great sense..

UPGRADE if you can?

Why would one fool with changing their setting.. .
Too powerful .. not enough.. how would one know without an evaluation.


Bass

Ditto what Wulfman said.

Get the software. I check apnea, hypopneas, snores, and mask leaks almost every day. I did my own titration. Three nights in two sleep labs and they could not get my pressure correct. This is typical. You don't sleep in the strange sleep lab environment the same way you sleep at home. If you get a little education, you will do better by titrating at home. Members here can help you.

Good luck,

JoyD. wrote: . . . I'd like to have you in my corner any day!

Thanks, Joy. That's where I am and plan to stay, here in our corner: cpaptalk.com.

jeff

jnk wrote: But we don't want to disillusion the RTs.
Let them believe it.
It helps their universe make sense.
It gives them dignity.
jeff

JNK, very positive way to view that situation.....

BUT, it is a total disservice to patients that
are in desperate need of their alleged knowledge and help,
to make their therapy work. Patients that don't know about cpaptalk.
Patients that believe that the docs, the RT's and the DME are the gods
of this therapy. To me it hinges on being criminal.

Of course this can all be discounted,
coming from a very successful( thanks cpaptalk),
and militant cpap'er.

carbonman wrote:....... militant cpap'er.

I like that terminology.

Didn't someone call me an apnea Nazi in a post this week?

My wife just says, "Obnoxious".

carbonman wrote:JNK, very positive way to view that situation.....

BUT, it is a total disservice to patients that
are in desperate need of their alleged knowledge and help,
to make their therapy work. Patients that don't know about cpaptalk.
Patients that believe that the docs, the RT's and the DME are the gods
of this therapy. To me it hinges on being criminal.

I agree, carbonman. It is a disservice for RTs to give false legal information, and their doing that is certainly closer to being criminal than our adjusting our own machines. I respect what mdbarthe (a man who knows about law enforcement) posted:

mdbarthe wrote: . . . I think I would have asked the threatening RT, "Do you know you can be arrested for practicing law without a license? Sounds to me like you're dispensing legal advice."

But I also think that rested gal's point, that many RTs actually believe that what they are saying is true, is an important one to factor in. The problem is that the idea that they go to school and get accredited to do something patients could be doing for themselves is a difficult concept for many of them to grasp. They may be conscientious and good at what they do and still not be educated about the legal aspects of it all. In the meantime, maybe our efforts are better spent spreading the word to fellow pappers about this board rather than trying to educate the RTs about our rights.

I personally don't doubt the motives of by far the majority of RTs. In their minds, the doc and the insurance people are holding THEM responsible for your machine being set up correctly. The idea that you could walk outside the door and change what they did means they have to fear that they could be blamed if a mentally unstable patient dropped his pressure down to 4 cm and left it there for comfort when he might need 15 cm. They have to do their job factoring in the lowest common denominator, the malicious or deficient patient who might later claim he had his heart attack 'because the RT obviously set my machine improperly.'

Being in the medical field is not an easy thing these days. Legal landmines are everywhere. I don't defend the system as it is, I only think it important that we understand some of the reasons why it is the way it is as we do what WE need to do and they do what THEY need to do.

jeff (who hopes everyone can sense the very slight tongue-in-cheek of the "dream police" post.)

rooster wrote:

carbonman wrote:....... militant cpap'er.

I like that terminology.

Didn't someone call me an apnea Nazi in a post this week?

My wife just says, "Obnoxious".

Well, your wife knows you better than anyone...

jnk wrote:
But I also think that rested gal's point, that many RTs actually believe that what they are saying is true, is an important one to factor in. The problem is that the idea that they go to school and get accredited to do something patients could be doing for themselves is a difficult concept for many of them to grasp.

That may be well and good, for them to think that and feel all warm and fuzzy.

....once again, BUT, it still doesn't help their patients.

I'll say it again, you can't learn the mechanics and psychology
of cpap from a book. It maybe a concept to them, it's my life.
I am accredited and get recertified, everynight.

jnk wrote: I personally don't doubt the motives of by far the majority of RTs. In their minds, the doc and the insurance people are holding THEM responsible for your machine being set up correctly. The idea that you could walk outside the door and change what they did means they have to fear that they could be blamed if a mentally unstable patient dropped his pressure down to 4 cm and left it there for comfort when he might need 15 cm. They have to do their job factoring in the lowest common denominator, the malicious or deficient patient who might later claim he had his heart attack 'because the RT obviously set my machine improperly.'
jeff

Good point.....BUT,
we hear too many tales, here, everyday, about patients walking out w/a machine
set to 4-20, and they can't figure out why they can't get any sleep and
this cpap stuff is crap. IF, docs, RT and DME's practiced real follow-up,
they would find these things out and get them adjusted.....BUT
....we know that isn't happening.

jnk wrote: Being in the medical field is not an easy thing these days. Legal landmines are everywhere. I don't defend the system as it is, I only think it important that we understand some of the reasons why it is the way it is as we do what WE need to do and they do what THEY need to do.
jeff

Good point....BUT,
if we, the paying patients don't try to do something to change this, it never will.

...so, cpap'ers....I want you to GET MAD!

I want you to say,
"I'm a human being!"
"My life has value!"

...and get up, go the window and YELL,

"I'M MAD AS HELL, and I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!"

carbonman wrote: ......

"I'M MAD AS HELL, and I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!"

Wait until I see that DME again.

carbonman wrote:

jnk wrote:
But I also think that rested gal's point, that many RTs actually believe that what they are saying is true, is an important one to factor in. The problem is that the idea that they go to school and get accredited to do something patients could be doing for themselves is a difficult concept for many of them to grasp.

That may be well and good, for them to think that and feel all warm and fuzzy.

....once again, BUT, it still doesn't help their patients.

I'll say it again, you can't learn the mechanics and psychology
of cpap from a book. It maybe a concept to them, it's my life.
I am accredited and get recertified, everynight.

jnk wrote: I personally don't doubt the motives of by far the majority of RTs. In their minds, the doc and the insurance people are holding THEM responsible for your machine being set up correctly. The idea that you could walk outside the door and change what they did means they have to fear that they could be blamed if a mentally unstable patient dropped his pressure down to 4 cm and left it there for comfort when he might need 15 cm. They have to do their job factoring in the lowest common denominator, the malicious or deficient patient who might later claim he had his heart attack 'because the RT obviously set my machine improperly.'
jeff

Good point.....BUT,
we hear too many tales, here, everyday, about patients walking out w/a machine
set to 4-20, and they can't figure out why they can't get any sleep and
this cpap stuff is crap. IF, docs, RT and DME's practiced real follow-up,
they would find these things out and get them adjusted.....BUT
....we know that isn't happening.

jnk wrote: Being in the medical field is not an easy thing these days. Legal landmines are everywhere. I don't defend the system as it is, I only think it important that we understand some of the reasons why it is the way it is as we do what WE need to do and they do what THEY need to do.
jeff

Good point....BUT,
if we, the paying patients don't try to do something to change this, it never will.

...so, cpap'ers....I want you to GET MAD!

I want you to say,
"I'm a human being!"
"My life has value!"

...and get up, go the window and YELL,

"I'M MAD AS HELL, and I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!"

You GO, carbonman! NOW your talking!! I promise not to stand in the way of your revolution.

Imagine little Johnny pre-RT in school raising his hand and asking his teacher: "Ms. Educator, what if I see that the patient would benefit from one cm more of pressure, can I do that for the patient?" Ms. Educator repies: "No, Johnny. You are only allowed to do what the doctor writes on the Rx, no matter what. So you pass any information on to the doctor and let the doctor decide what should be done. That's the law. And don't try to work your way around that law by showing your patients how they can ignore the doctor either, or you could get in big trouble, OK Johnny?" Johnny says, "Yes, Ma'am."

RTs are rightly scared of making doctors angry. If word got back to a doctor that an RT had spoken approvingly of a patient ignoring his doctor's prescription, whose butt is in a sling? Not the patient's. The RTs. I choose not to worry about that; but I can understand it if they do.

Don't get me wrong. The RT at my ex-DME was just this side of brain dead. I don't think she should have a license to drive a car, let alone touch a PAP machine or give advice to anybody about anything health-related. But I don't doubt her motives. And we hear stories here of RTs and docs who find ways to work around the system in finding ways to be genuinely helpful and encouraging to those who want to exercise their right to be actively involved in their own therapy.

So, for the record, I am not saying to let them eat cake. Make sure your revolutionaries are kind when they make their way to my door, OK? The only way I know to fight the system until then is by buying from cpap.com, by using my fingers to type what I see as the truth, and by drawing people's attention here to learn from the people who have taught me and you.

mdbarthe wrote: ..... I think I would have asked the threatening RT, "Do you know you can be arrested for practicing law without a license? Sounds to me like you're dispensing legal advice."

Good one, MD!

I missed it the first time around. Thanks to Jeff for pointing it out.

There are some people that can make sensible adjustments based on data from their machines, and there are people that need help adjusting their house thermostat. Am not kidding about the thermostat, we have people at work that have real problems with this. So, those that can, should. Those that can't shouldn't. I am flying with instruments, thanks to a very kind person on this forum, and making sensible adjustments, evaluating the results, and getting better sleep. I know several people that use xpap, they don't care about this forum, they leave everything up to the sleep doc, RT, etc. There is room for all of us on this beautiful planet and I just get a little pissy when someone from one camp tries to control someone in another camp.

I love this line...mdbarthe wrote: . . . I think I would have asked the threatening RT, "Do you know you can be arrested for practicing law without a license? Sounds to me like you're dispensing legal advice."

Bill