Adrenal Fatigue

socknitster wrote: I also found Himalayan salt at Trader Joes, also pink, in its own grinder for $2. I imagine it is a similar kind of salt. I've seen similar stuff at health food stores for much more.

I moved away from New Jersey two years ago and I MISS TRADER JOE'S!!!

howkim wrote:I moved away from New Jersey two years ago and I MISS TRADER JOE'S!!!

I encountered TJ's once, when visiting my sister in Ohio, though I hear about it from folks on my SCD list.

However, they HAVE opened a big warehouse in Atlanta, and now have three stores in the Atlanta metro area.

So maybe.....

socknitster wrote:Also, Trader Joes has lots of supplements at really incredibly reasonable prices. A bottle of D3 1000 mg was just $3, I think.

Not all supplements are equal. I trust Jarrow for having good quality, but not pharmaceutical grade which can only be obtained from a naturopathic doctor or other doctor those companies sell to (what a racket : )

socknitster wrote:I think I'm up to about 25 pills now which is requiring a lot of organization. I have a list to help me fill my 4 a day pill minder. . . .If the headaches continue I will have to think about cutting back on other things in about a week. . . . I intend to start decreasing the doseages of some of the vitamins as they run out.

I like that you go by how you're feeling, not just keep taking supplements without critical thinking and troubleshooting symptoms with which supplements you're taking. When I addressing a specific medical concern such as allergies, I do the same thing. I've had to do a spreadsheet to track everything! It works for me and I'm seriously healthy except for the persistent asthma from chemicals which pops up now and then.

I have borderline Type 2 and also have a long line of family with diabetes so I use a meter and test from time to time, like for a month, then get back on track being better about food choices. During times that I test, I test when rising in the morning, 1 hr after meals (for worse case scenario and to see how quickly I'm responding), 2hrs after meals most of the time, and before eating if the last meal was particularly high glycemic. This helps me decide how 'good' I am going to be with meal choices : ) I buy test strips at: http://www.americandiabeteswholesale.com/ They have been consistently cheaper than other places and I haven't had any business type issues dealing with the company. Very smooth.

So glad you're healing!

PS I called Real Salt and they said there is 13 – 23 mcg per 1/4 tsp and to keep in mind it is natural form so it is better used by the body than the type found in normal iodized table salt.

Lots to report today,

WearyONe, I heard a doctor on Sirius "Doctor Radio" talking about vitamin D a couple of days ago. He said it made no difference if you took the hi dose prescription D2 twice a month or the over the counter D3 everyday as long as you are getting the same number of units. For example, if you were taking 50,0000 units every 14 days, divide 50,000 by 14 and you get=3,570 units per day. So, if I were you and you knew that the prescription wasn't doing its job, I would take a 3,000 or a 5,000 unit pill every day with some sort of fat. I actually take my D with my E and fish oil supplements because D is fat soluble and that should help absorption.

Another interesting thing about D is that they are finding that there is another layer of the immune system that science didn't previously know about and D plays a roll there in manufacturing our own natural antibiotics. Pretty cool stuff!

Regarding sugar, well I'll tell you what my husband calls it: Devil's Powder. It ain't good for you no matter what your problem or lack thereof.

Regarding glucose monitoring: I don't think a square of chocolate will increase my blood glucose over 200, I was just saying "what if." I have actually been reassured by my glucose monitoring so far. Even 1 hour after meals it hasn't been over 110. I am ranging between 100-110 so far, but just got the test strips in UPS yesterday afternoon. That is proof positive I'm doing a good job with my food intake, so far. And I could tell I wasn't having the highs and lows from sugar like I used to.

HowKim--I have to drive an hour to Trader Joes once a month with a cooler to get my fix! LOL!

Muse-Inc, Thanks for the info on blood glucose. I knew I wanted to keep in under 140--that information is helpful too.

Timbalionguy, my normal births didn't seem unusual in any way, but it is hard to remember details like that. Both of my children had difficulty breastfeeding and had extreme jaundice and reflux issues, so I didn't have any time to rest or pay any attention to myself or my own needs. But I don't think so.

Gasp, I agree--I'm not one to normally take meds or supplements. I believe in eating real food. However, I can't ignore the possibility that I could be deficient in something that is causing all of this, so that is why I'm adding all this stuff and being really cautious about it. I know that some of the herbs could possibly react with each other or the cymbalta. I am trained in science so I'm trying to be objective which is why I took away the Ashwagandha and am not having the headaches anymore, but not feeling quite as perky either.

Interesting note. I've been taking my body temp every morning for the last week with a basal thermometer that is really accurate. I've been hovering around 97 degrees but have dipped as low as 96.6 and been as high as 97.8. Absolutely crazy. Today in the doctors office it was 97.8, so I have a backup verification.

Which brings me to today. My internist sent me to a hematologist today because my white counts have been running high for the last few years. He told me he doesn't think this will solve the fatigue etc but that we should check it out. I did not expect this to amount to much, but was surprised at the thoroughness and detail that this new doctor went to in assessing my symptoms, reading my old bloodwork and doing a, GASP!--PHYSICAL EXAM! She spent a lot of time with me. She said it makes sense to look for something systemic since my symptoms are so widespread and affecting everything. She thinks it could be a smouldering infection, something causing inflammation, or a genetic defect. She ordered an abdominal ultrasound to check my spleen and liver and when she palpated my stomach she kept checking one spot over and over saying she thought she felt something but that is all she would say, so goodness only knows what will happen next. I'm not gettin worried about it because I really don't think it is anything, (gut feeling) but if I don't go down this road and find out later I was wrong--I'll feel like an idiot and I don't care to waste any more of my life. She also ordered about 10 blood tests. I tried to have the blood taken, but my sitter fell through and my 18 month old was getting near lunch/naptime and the nurse blew the vein and I said I'd have to come back later alone. I sure hope I can find someone to watch him tomorrow. I'm trying.

So, that is where I am now. I'm getting into an area I know absolutely nothing about. This doctor seems to be exceptionally bright and caring--even gave me a hug, so I think I'm in good hands. It is creepy going to the cancer center though. Pictures of butterflies everywhere and everyone looks pale and fragile and sick. It made me feel weird. Like I was lucky to only have this weird fatigue thing. But then I started to worry (only a little bit) that maybe I have cancer too and that somehow fate was pushing me in this direction. But, I've seen my Mom and good friends go through it and I know if that turns out to be it, that I can take it. I'm a fighter.

Ugh. Anyway, that is where I am now. I still think it is adrenal fatigue and thyroid (Wilson's Temperature Syndrome) but I owe it to myself to check out any logical avenue the docs think up even though it is a pain and a hassle. Especially since those two things aren't recognized by modern medicine. Someday soon I hope to feel normal again. I'm tired of being the patient.

Jen

socknitster wrote:...owe it to myself to check out any logical avenue the docs think up

First, ya gotta rule everything possible out, then ya deal with what's left. Doc sounds like a keeper! Good luck keeping the vampires fed .

Jen, it is sounding more and more like you were just handed a bad set of genes. What really drove this home was your report of jaundice in both your newborns. There is so much we do not understand about the way our bodies work at the biochemical level. One mutation in a gene for a key enzyme could cause all sorts of weird things.

I agree with Muse-inc that your new doctor is a keeper. There is a lot of information out there on very rare conditions caused by genetic defects. Bt it takes a really top doctor to connect your symptoms to some obscure citation in a medical textbook. It could be that the best approach is simply to treat the symptoms. This approach has saved at least one person from rabies, which is normally considered a uniformly fatal disease.

In any case, I am adding you to my prayer list. I feel for you! I hope through your new doctor you get some genuine and sustainable relief.

You are exceptionally bright, intuitive, filled with initiative in spite of fatigue - I vote you'll figure it out! You're learning so much on the way that at least you will have a mighty full tool belt to help yourself, your family, or others throughout your lifetime.

After babies and the resulting lack of sleep, apnea, and physical illness I'd say you're a contender for super woman! But I am a fan after all. Keep up the good work!

There are likely a number of contributing factors.

I'm inclined to agree with timbalionguy on the genetic standpoint. It may not be exactly what you think though: http://www.precisionnutrition.com/epige ... nd-fatness. There was a show on PBS the other day about epigenetic inheritance. The Dutch have kept incredible records for centuries with regards to medical histories. Grandchildren of extreme famine survivors (and great grandchildren and often beyond) were found to have a higher likelihood of diabetes due to an epigenetic cue that flips a gene to scrounge sugars and store fat. The responsible genes of these people were identical to those relatives whose grandparents never underwent famine - and who consequently did not have diabetes. In other words, environmental history plays a role in our genetic heritage. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder was shown to have a similar role in influencing the health of children with regards to mothers affected by 9-11.

There is also the BPA/etc. hormone-mimic consideration. Our society is not paying this one close-enough attention. Fifty years ago, plastics were new. Now we have a gyre of plastic waste the size of the state of texas - and growing - in the Pacific. A similar gyre is growing in the Atlantic. It only takes parts part billion to affect an organism. In some cases (BPA), it's only parts per trillion. With so many people having such similar symptoms as those you describe (not unlike myself), I cannot help but wonder how much of what we call Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Hypothyroidism, Adrenal Fatigue, Autism, Narcolepsy, Catalepsy, and so many other ailments, are not somehow connected. In 'lumping' these maladies together, rest assured that I am not denying or belittling their existence. I'm suggesting that it's very likely these emerging and alarmingly increasing (over the last 30 years) maladies may be epigenetically unique manifestations of a problem with a common origin: the poisoning of our environment by the overabundance of plastics, heavy metals, neurotoxins and other human-made concoctions that never previously existed: the excesses of modern convenience.

It may seem odd to suggest such a thing, but my own experience may be somewhat unique. When I was a child we had a Shell 'No Pest Strip' hanging in the center stairway of our 3000 square-foot two-story home. A plastic yellow bar 2 inches wide and 8 inches tall sat inside of a 'faux wood' colored cardboard hanger out of reach of children. All a fly had to do was land on it, and within two hours the fly was dead. Flies were also attracted to it for some reason. Anyway, within two weeks of this thing hanging in our house, I started coming down with bruises over my entire body. All I had to do was touch my skin like pressing a type-writer key, and I'd bruise severely. When my alarmed parents took me to the doctor (and after he'd adroitly and appropriately established that my parents didn't beat me) he realized it was the No Pest strips. Only two other kids had had the same reaction up to that point in the US, and he'd read about them in a medical journal. He suggested removing the strip. Within a month, the bruises were gone. I'd had unusual and visually obvious reactions to other chemicals ever since then. One Christmas I got a shirt with a beautiful blue pattern in it. When I took off the shirt at the end of the day, I had hives in the exact same pattern as the blue on the shirt. It was freaky cool! I had trouble breathing and had a massive headache. It barely itched though. My mom threw the shirt away. In both these circumstances, the causes were specific and easily eliminated. With the No Pest strip, the exposure was likely in the parts-per-billion range, yet low-dose chronic exposure nearly killed me. (Not long after we removed the strip, the product was quietly removed from the marketplace.) Recognizing the symptoms, I know now that if I'd worn that beautiful shirt any longer, I'd likely have gone into anaphylaxis.

These examples were both 'point source' conditions - easily diagnosed and treatable. The problem with our current situation is that we're dealing with 'non-point source' conditions. We're steeped in everything from bug killer to flame retardant to genetically-modified bacteria. And we haven't even looked at wifi, cell-phones, and other forms of radiation. Because that's what they are: microwave (and other) transmitters. We know too much UVA and UVB can be harmful. We know putting food in a microwave oven cooks it. Yet, here we are with little tiny microwave transmitters in our laps and on our ears with little or no studies proving or disproving the long-term and chronic effects of these conveniences - or what they may be doing to us or our children. Some chemicals are added to drugs called 'adjuvants' that increase the overall effectiveness of the drug. In the same way that certain combinations of drugs and adjuvants are more effective, certain unknown combinations of these environmental pollutants are certain to have detrimental or even deleterious effects on our health. They are impossible to study because we cannot isolate them. They're already 'out there'. We eat them. We breathe them. We swim and bathe in them. Well-paid legal teams promote the concept that 'no studies prove such claims', allowing corporations to continue being bad citizens - to continue polluting in the name of profit and convenience. What they're not paid to tell you is that there are also no studies proving the claims are false either. Unfortunately, short-term convenience and profit are usually more important to stockholders than long-term sustainability and survival. BPA is just the proverbial tip of the iceberg.

My AHI is good. My leak lines are good. My 02 sats are good. I'm treating now for migraine with butterbur and 'adrenal stress end'. I've only now read this thread and have to admit, I too, like socknitster sense I am slowly sinking. Sleep is not fully restorative and exercise is barely recoverable. Every month, I'm finding myself just that much less capable, and it's frankly scaring the hell out of me because all my tests come back 'healthy' for anything I look into.

If I hear one more doctor say, 'Well you look healthy to me. You're probably just stressed out. Have you tried meditation and exercise???,' I'm going to bust a gasket.

Edit: I apologize for not saying earlier: Jen, good luck with your new doctor. i sincerely hope you find the answers that will restore your health. I'm looking forward to hearing good results.

timbalionguy wrote:Jen, it is sounding more and more like you were just handed a bad set of genes. What really drove this home was your report of jaundice in both your newborns. There is so much we do not understand about the way our bodies work at the biochemical level. One mutation in a gene for a key enzyme could cause all sorts of weird things.

I agree with Muse-inc that your new doctor is a keeper. There is a lot of information out there on very rare conditions caused by genetic defects. Bt it takes a really top doctor to connect your symptoms to some obscure citation in a medical textbook. It could be that the best approach is simply to treat the symptoms. This approach has saved at least one person from rabies, which is normally considered a uniformly fatal disease.

In any case, I am adding you to my prayer list. I feel for you! I hope through your new doctor you get some genuine and sustainable relief.

Timbalionguy,

I think you are right about the genes. My mother is a hot mess of metabolic syndrome as was her father. On that same side I know very little about my great-grandparents except that my great grandmother died very young from the flu and that her husband died of a heart attack just before my Mom was born. All the health problems stem from that line. My mother and her siblings have cancer, osteoporosis (male), sleep apnea, diabetes, high blood pressure etc etc. Whereas my maternal grandmother is in her late 80's and has had a couple of strokes but still functions fine and lives on her own--her problem seems to be the food she eats--"the German diet"--lots of sausage, bacon, etc etc. My Dad's side is all healthy as horses until late in life when alzheimers comes into play.

Regarding the jaundice of my children--that was a result of something called ABO incompatibiltiy. It has to do with the blood type of the child and the mother not matching and the mother developing antibodies to the childs blood which cross the placenta and after birth cause the red blood cells to be broken down, producing excessive amounts of biliruben. It can happen to any woman who is O and has children who are type A or type B. So, while I am the universal donor, I didn't do nice things to my kids. It is a pretty rare condition and you don't hear much about it since it is only life threatening in extreme cases--but my kids were both pretty sick, nonetheless.

I can't help but thinking that my family is just really susceptible to stress. It seems to do bad things to us. And I also think there could be some nutritional deficiency at work here, compounding the problem. It would make sense since all my problems got worse after pregnancies and long stints at breastfeeding. Both of which are very taxing stress-wise and nutritionally. My nutrition during my childhood was outrageously bad when I compare it to how I eat now! So I may have started life off on the wrong foot from the beginning!

Since I have had some really good days since starting the vitamin/herb regimen, I have high hopes of getting better. But you are right--there may be some enzyme or protein deficiency that is innate that is not documented because it is not imminently life threatening. We have removed evolution from modern society--there is no longer any survival of the fittest. We don't allow sick children to die--we do everything we can to save them (thank God). This unfortunately perpetuates bad genes and multiplies them. There are vaccines for all the things that would have killed off the weakest among us in centuries past--so the weakest among us grow up and have children. One can only hope that as we mix genes of different populations from around the world that hybrid vigour will make us stronger with better genetic pools.

Dreamdiver--I completely agree with you about our environment. I try to keep my house as free of toxins as I possibly can. We drink from glass--even the 6 year old. The toddler uses bpa and pthalate free plastic and silicone sippy cups but will graduate soon to a sturdy glass cup. I don't heat plastic in the microwave and I try not to carry my cell phone around in my pocket too much, just try to keep it nearby.

There was a study that came out recently that people with thyroid disfunction were found to have more of the chemical from nonstick cookware in their blood. Now whether the chemical causes the thyroid problem OR whether folks with a thyroid problem are more likely to have trouble ridding themselves of this chemical is unknown. I have always disliked nonstick cookware, opting mostly to use stainless or cast iron. But I always kept one small one around for making scrambled eggs. It has now been replaced with a new cast iron skillet of a similar size. It will take years to build up the "seasoning" to be as nonstick as a nonstick pan, but its worth the pain if it affords my family more protection. In many cases, returning to these old ways of doing things would sure save us a lot of heartbreak, even if they create a few minutes more work in our daily life.

I'm inclined to believe that this and other toxins like this are causing widespread endocrine problems that we are only beginning to see now. Genetically male frogs and fish that look like their female counterparts. How many people are doing infertility treatments, have PCOS, hypothyroid etc etc. Many of the syndromes you mentioned could be a case of this T4 to T3 conversion problem that I think I have.

Adrenal Stress End--is that the Teitelbaum formulation for adrenal fatigue? Have you been to his website http://www.endfatigue.com? There is an interesting questionaire there that I found very helpful and accurate.

So I will contine to follow this path. After a day like today--I had a fasting abdominal ultrasound followed by 7 or 8 vials of blood being drawn and sitting in waiting rooms for over 2 hours--I'm just exhausted. It took me forever to make the salad for supper tonight and the kids ate a frozen noodle meal that they like.

I'm exploring this with two different sets of docs: my regular internist and the specialists he sends me too (yesterday was a hematologist) and the alternative m.d. of integrative medicine. I go back to the latter tomorrow for the T3 protocol. After the last two weeks of tests, waiting rooms and doctors visits I am SOOOOOOOO hoping his answer is the right one! I'll let you know!

Thanks you guys for being there. It means a lot to me. At least my cpap therapy is going well! I sleep really well lately and rarely have a problem with my bipap. Gasp, you are so durn sweet, thank you! The feeling is mutual!

I heard a doctor on "Doctor Radio" (sirius satelite radio) talking about women and cardiac health. They were talking about how women tend to put everyone else first and ignore troubling symptoms and the doctor made a valid point which is the exact way that I feel. You HAVE to put yourself first sometimes. You can't take care of everyone else if you are too ill or dead. Since I got the flu in Oct and these symptoms got so much worse, I kept waiting for them to get better but I reached a point where I realized they weren't going to unless I took the reigns and got serious about figuring this out. I decided it was time to put myself first. So, I have to leave my youngest with baby sitters a couple of times a week while I pursue this. And while I dreaded it, I'm finding out its good for him and he likes it. So putting myself first was actually a good thing for the whole family so far. And it has forced me to reach out to friends for help babysitting and brought them back into my life, closer and stronger than ever before--and who doesn't need that?!

It sounds like we've been down similar discovery paths. I too have eliminated plastic using glass containers, Kerr jars, etc. Eliminated Teflon many years ago, etc. etc. I would really enjoy it if we could keep up with the latest offline. I discover new stuff all the time and would like to learn new things. : ) I'll PM you.

Dreamdiver, I later thought about the same thing. I have been involved in some epigenetic research involving lions, and what has been discovered is very interesting. (I work for a PBS member station, and have seen the documentary you were describing.)

As far as sensitivity to chemicals go, what you describe, from a generic standpoint, describes a lot of peoples' experience. They are exposed to one substance, and they are afterwords sensitive to a whole class of substances. Organic solvents seem to be common triggers. Yet it is interesting that others can work with these same chemicals and not develop this sensitivity. Extreme cases of this chemical sensitivity is called 'modern age disease'. One guy whose case I heard about in the early '80's had to live in seclusion in an unpopulated part of Wisconsin. He had to eat a pretty bizarre diet to avoid things commonly found in food today-- things like lion meat and sea shrimp.

You talked about microwave radiation. Microwaves are no different than any other radio waves, except they are higher in frequency. All RF energy can heat our bodies. FM radio and the high VHF TV channels are frequencies that can easily heat our whole bodies because our body is close to wavelength at these frequencies. Microwaves used for cooking were chosen because the wavelength is approximate to the size of many food items, making the RF heating effect more effective. You might be interested to know that most wireless LANs operate at approximately the same frequency as a microwave oven (2.45 GHz), and to my knowledge, there is not reported case of health issues from a wireless LAN. This is also an amateur radio band, and I have frequently been around stations that ran high power in this band.

Every now and then, you see some study that claims that microwaves cause gross tissue damage beyond heating effects. I have never seen anyone ever able to repeat the results of these studies. I have also seen studies that report health problems among heavy cell phone users. But if you look at the lifestyles of these people (typically very high stress), it is not hard to figure out why they have these health issues. The best studies have concluded that if there is a risk of health problems from exposure to RF energy, it is so slight that it cannot be adequately characterized.

I have likely been exposed to RF energy at higher power levels than anyone on this list, on a repeated basis, and I am not suffering any health effects that can be directly or indirectly attributed to this exposure. The only other high power RF guy here I know of is DSM.

One last thing: Microwave ovens do not do any damage to foods that ordinary heating wouldn't do. In fact, they do less damage because microwaves can penetrate food to some extent. Heat cannot do that. (BTW, for those of you not familiar with the electromagnetic spectrum, heat is the next form of this energy after microwaves. Visible light, at even higher energies, is above heat. Ultraviolet light is above visible light. And it is in the higher end of the ultraviolet spectrum that you start to find electromagnetic energy with enough energy to damage us.

socknitster wrote:...Adrenal Stress End--is that the Teitelbaum formulation for adrenal fatigue? Have you been to his website http://www.endfatigue.com? There is an interesting questionaire there that I found very helpful and accurate.

Jen,
Yes, I heard Dr. Teitelbaum speak on NPR the other day. He's considered a bit of a maverick, but he seems to be getting results other doctors are too afraid to approach.

I've pulled three books from the local library: The Second Brain - The Scientific Basis of Gut Instinct and a groundbreaking new understanding of nervous disorders of the stomach and intestine by Michael D. Gershon, M.D., The Glucose Revolution - The Authoratie Guide to the Glycemic Index - The Ground Breaking Medical Discovery, by Jenni Brand-Miller, Ph.D. et al., and The Endocrine System by Marjorie Little. None of these books is very recent. I've only had energy to cursorily scan through the three of them and have started reading The Second Brain more thoroughly. Some of the things that rise to the surface are these:

• The gut has an independent neurological system often called the enteric nervous system (ENS) that likely predates the phylogeny of the central nervous system (CNS).
• The ENS and the CNS are connected by a comparatively small number of nerves called the vagus nerve. (It's really almost like another nervous system responsible for communication between the gut, the head, the heart and peripheral systems.)
• While it is far more rudimentary than our CNS, the ENS does tend to rule our emotions - hence the adage 'gut instinct'. It's responsible for the fight-or-flight response and other emotional responses.
• According to my doctor, none of the drugs currently prescribed for migraines were developed specifically for migraines. The field is too new. Migraine drugs all come from related research where a positive side-effect of reduced migraine was noticed. Many of the drugs used to treat migraines are anti-seizure medicines that are used for people who have CNS seizures.
• If we're using a seizure med to treat the ENS, perhaps it makes sense to study whether migraines are a result of ENS seizures.
• Theory: the gut seizes, causing a positive feedback loop (like a microphone too close to it's amplified speaker) in the vagal nervous bundle that carries an amplified alarm to the brain, resulting in headaches, visual migraine auras and sympathetic response in other nervous tissue (body aches). Continued overload feedback results in a panoply of disorders ranging from CFS to Candida overgrowth to FM to Adrenal fatigue, etc.
• What causes gut problems? Stress, diet and environmental cues.
• What would likely stop the problem?
• Diet change is the first and easiest to address - reduce sugar and commit to a stable, allergen-free 'peasant' diet.
• Reduce stress - change your lifestyle to one that fits your speed, etc.
• Reduce environmental cues - use traditional cooking/cleaning/storage methods - stop using plastics/pesticides, etc.

Easier said than done... I know. Sugar is the worst offender - especially HFCS. Processed foods... You can't get away from it. I'm curious if any research groups are taking this theoretical approach in studies.

I tried out Teitlebaum's test. It comes across a bit slick and packaged - like his site is more interested in my money than my health. I feel procesed. There is a disconnect between the doctor's message and the doctor's website in that respect.


Have you tried chia seeds? They seem to help with Omega 3's and blood sugar balance.

That's very interesting, DreamDiver. There seems to be a connection between "abdominal migraines," found in children (characterized by episodic abdominal pain lasting 1-72 hours, lack of appetite, nausea/vomiting, and pallor), and adult migraines. Here are two articles with basic info: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/708850 and http://headacheandmigrainenews.com/symp ... -migraine/.

DreamOn wrote:That's very interesting, DreamDiver. There seems to be a connection between "abdominal migraines," found in children (characterized by episodic abdominal pain lasting 1-72 hours, lack of appetite, nausea/vomiting, and pallor), and adult migraines. Here are two articles with basic info: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/708850 and http://headacheandmigrainenews.com/symp ... -migraine/.

I've never heard of this before, but it certainly fits. Thanks for this.

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