Power outage

DreamDiver wrote:The short-term UPS systems really aren't a workable solution. After a few times without power, they fail, and you end up having to buy a new one. We have a conventional APC UPS battery backup for the modem and router, but after less than two years and just a few multiple-hour outages, you end up with a dead UPS. That's an expensive solution. . .

UPSs are primarily intended to give the user enough time to save data and do an orderly shutdown of the computer when power fails. They weren’t intended to run a computer for many hours or a few days without line current. Even so, the less expensive ones have their limits, as you've discovered.

If someone wants to buy the jump starter for a backup, it’s their own business. I only hope they will do so with the realization that 1) it will last no more than a night or two without recharging, 2) it probably won’t last very many deep discharge cycles before it dies, and 3) if the AC voltage is low, it will burn up their xPAP power supply if the AC output is used. If a night or two once in a blue moon is all they need, they don't mind buying a replacement every couple of years, and they are willing to test the AC output before using it to power their xPAP, they will probably be satisfied with it.

If you want something battery powered and long lasting, it can be done but it won’t be cheap and it won’t be light and portable. I know a good number of folks who live off the grid. Yes, it can be done. What are you willing to pay?

I also know a couple of people who have backup generators for their house. You can set this up to come on automatically if the line power goes off. I suggest either diesel, natural gas, or propane for running the generator as gasoline will go stale. An automatic transfer switch is part if the setup. But power will still be interrupted for some nanoseconds. I don’t know how many nanoseconds without power different xPAPs will endure before shutting off. Anyway, this won’t be cheap either.

I have a 75 or 80 amp-hour deep cycle battery and a small generator should I need to recharge it while the power is out. I’m not too worried about sleeping a while after the power goes off. I or my wife will wake up soon enough. We both use xPAP. Besides, I’m not concerned with the effects of an hour or two without xPAP considering the costs of the failsafe automatic backup system. We occasionally sleep on planes without xPAP with no identifiable ill effects yet.

Goofproof,

You missed one of the more important specs. From the Black & Decker web site: “Battery - 12V, 19 Amp hr, sealed lead-acid”



Wayne

I haven't read the tons of info that's listed here, but it's on my To Do list. If you haven't read it yet, it might provide additional ideas: viewtopic.php?t=9682

Marsha

I have a APC BackUPS NS 1250, for my computers, it has two internal batteries in it, When they die, I might replace them with bigger batteries and knock out the alarm and use it for the XPAP, and get a new one for the computers. For the HH, I'd use a F & P 150 on wall power.

I also have a Car Starter in the bedroom, but haven't gotten around to making a plug to use it. Jim

Standby generators can be "whole house" or just selectively wire some of the breakers, allowing a much smaller, less expensive generator with the automatic transfer switch. I didn't know these were available in small residential units until recently. If others are interested in reading more:

http://www.generac.com/Default.aspx

We have the UPS, power transfer switch and diesel generator system at the office for our web servers... a sweet system but very expensive and certainly overkill to simply run an xPAP machine. Perhaps my backup plan should consist of sleeping at the office.

There are some companies who manufacture UPS systems that provide pure sine wave power... APC and CyberPower Systems are two such. Not all of their UPS units provide such power so it is necessary to check the detailed technical specs for the unit. This would be a nice setup suitable for powering equipment through relatively short duration power outages that may occur. For longer outages such as overnight I suspect it is still preferable to have a deep-cycle battery along with the necessary cabling to power the xPAP without Humidifier overnight.

It strikes me as unnecessarily cumbersome for the end user when considering backup power solutions for the xPAP manufacturers to have designed humidifier units with slightly different power requirements that complicate the issue.

Hi All: It is fascinating to me how this topic frequently comes up! What I'm seeing is a under served market niche overdue to blossom.

For me, the complete solution price tag is $500. Traveling, camping and power outages. Covers it all. I'm not going to pay it! I would hope when production continues to grow, prices will come down. It's going to be a while, I would suspect.

I really like this link in Rested Gal's list:

viewtopic.php?t=32140

This gentleman took it upon himself to solve the problem within $100 bucks. One problem, I couldn't find the batteries specified at Discount Solar. Upon diagnosis of SA, time is precious! I don't have time to reinvent what someone else did!

I really like what was said about B & D 400 Electromate, both good and bad. For that occasional blackout, or overnight camping trip, it's fine.

Black and Decker is very honest about what the Electromate 400 can do and not do. If you drain the battery too far, you will shorten the life. If you recharge it too much with DC, you'll shorten the life, on and on....

What disturbs me is the statement that if you run your CPAP on too low of a battery you'll burn it out. Am understanding that correctly? That's important info!

I don't want a Deep Cycle Marine Battery around a six year old child. Nor, do I want something that's open, I want it sealed. And, something light enough to carry 100 yards or more to a tent.

I bought the DC adaptor for $25, the BiPAP will work longer. My pressure is low, humidity could be bypass or set low. So, for a few years, I've got an emergency plan with an overnight camping trip. I feel so much safer!!

The link above shows the one with the radio. Screw that!! That's too much stuff!! $100 at Home Depot with no radio. Now, I don't have to go to the Gas Station to fill the tires and pay for it

I wish the gentleman who did the solution for around $100 would enlighten us on a battery substitute or where exactly Discount Solar sells them. I never called them. Hey, I'm tired!

Best wishes,

SG

Gosh, how do you go back and edit your post? Oh well!! Rested Gal, if your monitoring this topic, what is the CPAP your using with the built in battery? Seamlessly switches to battery during a overnight outage? My doctors office was very interested in this product.

I know it's somewhere in those links... And, could you elaborate on how well you like that xPAP... Anybody else as well...


Thanks,

SG

SuperGeeky wrote:. . . What disturbs me is the statement that if you run your CPAP on too low of a battery you'll burn it out. Am understanding that correctly? That's important info! . . .

That’s not what I said. If you’re running your CPAP on straight 12 volts DC – no inverter (whether built into a B&D Electromate or otherwise) just a straight DC cord – you should have nothing to worry about. If your battery gets too low, the CPAP will stop working but it shouldn’t be harmed.

What you need to worry about is running a CPAP on line current, nominally 120 volts AC, that is out-of-spec. Low voltage is dangerous to your equipment because it will run hot on low voltage. There should be nothing to worry about with line current from the power company. They control the voltage very well, although brownouts can happen on rare occasions.

If you use an inverter, however, I suggest you may want to buy a digital voltmeter (~ $20) and test the output before using the inverter to power your CPAP. If it’s between 110 and 125, you should be fine.

I recently bought a not-so-cheap inverter from a trusted source to run my wife’s VPAP Adapt SV while camping. (Resmed’s 30-volt converter won’t work in the real world, but that’s another story.) When I powered it up, the first thing I did was test the output voltage. I found it was 103 volts. I found a small lamp with a single incandescent bulb to test it under a small resistance load. 97 volts. Within a minute the inverter released the smoke that had been installed at the factory. In other words, it burnt itself up. (Resistance loads, like incandescent bulbs, don’t care about low voltage.) I’m glad I tested the inverter before using it to power my wife’s $7,000 machine.

I’ve bought a different inverter which puts out a measured 120.4 volts.

Wayne

SuperGeeky wrote:Gosh, how do you go back and edit your post?

If you're logged in, you should see an "Edit" button at the top left of you posts.

Wayne

I use a Battery Geek C222 CPAP battery, and it will easily power my CPAP for two nights. It is essentially a box the size of a hardback book that has a cigarette lighter socket on it. The battery can be carried onto an airplane and it can be used in flight. The battery comes with a power cable with interchangeable power plugs to fit most CPAPs. You can plug your CPAP into the battery and leave the battery connected to the charger. When the power goes out, your CPAP won't miss a beat. With CPAPs that use a power brick, such as a Respironics Series M or a P-B 420, you can replace the power pack with the battery and charger.

To achieve this I think we will need to assemble such a system ourselves. I know I would base mine on either the yellow or blue top Optima battery... I haven't researched enough to know which one. Then would need to add a charging system.

The show stopper for me is that this setup will not power the Resmed Humidifier.

Could that be because you have only allowed yourself to consider DC power? I have not done it yet, but I have thought I would buy a battery and pure sine wave inverter. I already have a battery charger. Plug the charger into the wall. Connect the charger to the battery. Connect the inverter to the battery. Plug my ResMed into the inverter, and run as usual every night, including the humidifier. In the morning I guess I could think about unplugging the charger.

That way, I never even have to wake up if the power goes out. I guess the downside is the wasted energy in conversion, but that's the cost of a worry-free night.

Thanks for the link to the Optima batteries. That would solve another of my problems (lead acid batteries have drawbacks indoors.) I read the info on the red, blue, and yellow, and like you, I couldn't figure out whether yellow or blue was better for this application.

WNJ wrote: If you use an inverter, however, I suggest you may want to buy a digital voltmeter (~ $20) and test the output before using the inverter to power your CPAP. If it’s between 110 and 125, you should be fine.

I recently bought a not-so-cheap inverter from a trusted source to run my wife’s VPAP Adapt SV while camping. [scary story edited for brevity]

Wow, thanks for the story and the tip. I think I need to get one of those voltmeters RIGHT NOW and measure the voltage coming from the power company. I have funny things happen that make me suspicious from time to time that I'm getting a little too much power from them.

Paul56, none of the UPS's I have ever seen have a pure sine wave output, so none would be able to run the ResMed humidifier. I DO like my Vantage (the predecessor to your AutoSet II), but that humidifier's pesky power requirements.......

A possibility is to lose the HumidAire 3 and simply use a FP HC150 stand alone humidifier. But the HC150 only runs on ac.

Pure sine wave inverters get spendy, around $130. For what it's worth, here is the ResMed white paper on using their products with batteries:
http://www.resmed.com/en-us/products/se ... ttery.html

I know EXACTLY what you want... something that will sit silently between the wall socket and your cpap, kick in when the power fails, run the cpap and humidifier all night if needed, stay constantly charged without emitting dangerous hydrogen gas, and have a warning beep that can be shut off. Please let me know if you ever find one!


In the mean time, you might consider this: For what you would likely spend for a beefy UPS and a pure sine wave inverter or a charger/gel battery/inverter/cable, you could buy one of these (I know, not an apap, and no data; but small, lightweight, battery runs the cpap alone for two nights, and the cpap/humidifier together for at least one night (I've gotten 8 hours one night and almost 6 the second night using both on one charge): https://www.cpap.com/productpage-bundle ... undle.html The converter and a simple $10 cable with alligator clips and a socket from Radio Shack would let you use the unit with any available 12 battery.

I have the Everest2 cpap machine. I got the whole bundle(includes battery and heated humidifier) from cpap.com. This machine will switch to battery operation all on it's own and switch back to regular power when it comes back on. The machine has no bells or whistles, but in a power outage I don't care. It doesn't have c-flex or epr, but I haven't found that to be a problem either. It does give me 6+ hrs of sleep for 2 nights if I don't use the heated humidifier. I get one night if I do. The way the HH is set up I seem to be getting plenty of humidity by just using it as a passover humidifier. The battery will trickle charge when the power comes back on(takes less than 5 hrs to recharge for me). It is small and light, which makes it perfect for travel. Here is the link for the machine;
https://www.cpap.com/cpap-machine/evo-A ... chine.html
I love this little machine. We have frequent power outages lately so it's been used alot and it works great. If we are due for a storm I sleep with the Everest2 and don't even know if the power has gone out until morning. It has a slightly higher pitch to it that may be bothersome to some but I don't find it to be a problem.
And YES, this is the machine Rested Gal has.

Brenda

bdp522 wrote:I have the Everest2 cpap machine.

Now this I like.

-Affordable.
-Provides a backup machine in case the main breaks down.
-Provides solution for main power being down.
-Provides a small travel machine.

It seems to cover a lot of situations that would otherwise require more equipment (some of it heavy) and a larger expenditure than simply purchasing this machine.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.