REVIEW: Contec CMS-60D Handheld Oximeter

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
feeling_better
Posts: 802
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:08 pm

Re: REVIEW: Contec CMS-60D Handheld Oximeter

Post by feeling_better » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:12 pm

DreamDiver wrote:Here's why:
How does an oximeter work?
A source of light originates from the probe at two wavelengths (650nm and 805nm). The light is partly absorbed by haemoglobin, by amounts which differ depending on whether it is saturated or desaturated with oxygen. By calculating the absorption at the two wavelengths the processor can compute the proportion of haemoglobin which is oxygenated. The oximeter is dependant on a pulsatile flow and produces a graph of the quality of flow. Where flow is sluggish (eg hypovolaemia or vasoconstriction) the pulse oximeter may be unable to function. The computer within the oximeter is capable of distinguishing pulsatile flow from other more static signals (such as tissue or venous signals) to display only the arterial flow.
Undoubtedly there is more going on than this firmware-wise, since the light winks if there is no finger in the clip and emits continuously if there is a finger present. I'm guessing an infrared powerful enough to blister tissue at 650nm uses more mA than a red led at 805nm. What do you think?

Mine doesn't show through the side. It's very dim light. Dimmer than my alarm clock - and that's really dim. It's just a slightly glowing red finger from the side.
DreamDiver, excellent! Thank you for sharing that info. I was going to look up how an oximeter works after I come back from my walk.

I also know now that even when it appears to be constant, as I had also thought before, it is really pusling. You can check that by moving your finger around. I have not looked up the efficiencies of those leds, they could be using about same amounts of current, but they get the power by pulsing for a very short duration at high current, the duty cycle might be as low as 1/10 or even 1/100. It winks when there is no finger to save even more energy; makes sense. BTW, I had used IR led at another project and have learned that it is better not to look straight into it, because our eye does not respond by reducing the iris opening. Also you can see the light if you take your digital camera and look at it, it might appear brighter than the red one.

The light coming through the side might depend on the geometry of our finger. What I see at night is not diffused, I can see the led directly through the side and at night it is very bright. But it is easy to apply masking tape, I put a little hanging blinds type flap of tape on one side partly folded over on itself, so I do not have to remove it every morning.
Resmed S9 Elite cpap mode, H5i Humidifier, Swift FX Bella L nasal pillows

User avatar
feeling_better
Posts: 802
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:08 pm

REVIEW 2 contd: Contec CMS-60D Handheld Oximeter

Post by feeling_better » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:20 pm

I had a chance to compare the accuracy of this meter with the Nonen 3100 wrist recording type. There two meters on different fingers, they follow each other very closely +-1 count, mostly because finger contact variations, etc. There may be minor changes from finger to finger too, such I did check by exchanging the fingers on which each was. For all practical purposes they are identical in readings. To get lower readings, I held my breath

I had done a couple of nights' study with the two instruments. The results will not be available for a couple of weeks, since my doc is on vacation (and the dme will only give the results to the doc). I will report that comparison here when available.

Two more review items: I do like the Nonen's extremely simple auto mode. Put it on it records, remove it stops! But cms-60D is probably 1/6 the price...

I wish they had provided an internal clock.

After downloading the data to the PC, I wish they had simply turned the machine off, just like it turning itself off after a few minutes if there is no finger present. So often I catch myself forgetting to turn off, while the machine is in high battery consumption mode.

Q: Does their wrist model have recording capability? Really one does not need all this color and other features. Just showing the o2 level in non recording mode, and just recording in the other mode is all one needs. The rest are gimmicks of no value to me. I wish they could add recording their wrist model.

In spite of all those above comments, this may still be the best price/value machine out there!!
Resmed S9 Elite cpap mode, H5i Humidifier, Swift FX Bella L nasal pillows

User avatar
DreamDiver
Posts: 3082
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:19 am

Re: REVIEW 2 contd: Contec CMS-60D Handheld Oximeter

Post by DreamDiver » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:33 pm

feeling_better wrote:I had a chance to compare the accuracy of this meter with the Nonen 3100 wrist recording type. ...
In spite of all those above comments, this may still be the best price/value machine out there!!
Thanks for doing this! You ROCK.
The CMS-50F has recording capability, but since it uses the same software, I'm guessing it doesn't have an internal clock either.

_________________
Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F20 Mask with Headgear + 2 Replacement Cushions
Additional Comments: Pressure: APAP 10.4 | 11.8 | Also Quattro FX FF, Simplus FF
Image
Most members of this forum are wonderful.
However, if you are the target of bullying on this forum, please consider these excellent alternative forums:
Apnea Board
Sleep Apnea Talk Forum
Free CPAP Advice

Be well,
Chris

User avatar
feeling_better
Posts: 802
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:08 pm

REVIEW2 cont'd: Contec CMS-60D charging thru usb

Post by feeling_better » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm

I talked to the manufacturer in China about charging through the USB. Some of their other meters charge the rechargeable batteries through the USB port.

Regarding the CMS-60D, they replied:
yes, you can charge the device through USB when connecting to computer, but when you turn it down, it cannot be charged, however, we offer the power charger with the device, so please use the charger to charge the battery.
I have a feeling they were not referring to the model in discussion in this thread. I asked for clarification, but have not got a reply for over a week. With rechargeable batteries, I tried an experiment by keeping it connected to the USB port for a very long time. I do not think it is charging at all through the usb port.
Resmed S9 Elite cpap mode, H5i Humidifier, Swift FX Bella L nasal pillows

User avatar
DreamDiver
Posts: 3082
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:19 am

Re: REVIEW2 cont'd: Contec CMS-60D charging thru usb

Post by DreamDiver » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:18 am

feeling_better wrote:I talked to the manufacturer in China about charging through the USB. Some of their other meters charge the rechargeable batteries through the USB port.

Regarding the CMS-60D, they replied:
yes, you can charge the device through USB when connecting to computer, but when you turn it down, it cannot be charged, however, we offer the power charger with the device, so please use the charger to charge the battery.
I have a feeling they were not referring to the model in discussion in this thread. I asked for clarification, but have not got a reply for over a week. With rechargeable batteries, I tried an experiment by keeping it connected to the USB port for a very long time. I do not think it is charging at all through the usb port.
Absolutely no charging on my end either. They must be talking about another model.

_________________
Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F20 Mask with Headgear + 2 Replacement Cushions
Additional Comments: Pressure: APAP 10.4 | 11.8 | Also Quattro FX FF, Simplus FF
Image
Most members of this forum are wonderful.
However, if you are the target of bullying on this forum, please consider these excellent alternative forums:
Apnea Board
Sleep Apnea Talk Forum
Free CPAP Advice

Be well,
Chris

liv2kite
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:43 pm

Re: REVIEW 2 contd: Contec CMS-60D Handheld Oximeter

Post by liv2kite » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:49 am

DreamDiver wrote:
feeling_better wrote:I had a chance to compare the accuracy of this meter with the Nonen 3100 wrist recording type. ...
In spite of all those above comments, this may still be the best price/value machine out there!!
Thanks for doing this! You ROCK.
The CMS-50F has recording capability, but since it uses the same software, I'm guessing it doesn't have an internal clock either.
It only looks like a wristwatch. I am guessing (by analogy with the other devices) that it probably does not have an onboard clock also.

_________________
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: APAP 7-9cm (EPR 2cm full-time), AHI 0.2 w/xPAP vs 23 w/o xPAP

User avatar
feeling_better
Posts: 802
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:08 pm

Re: REVIEW 2 contd: Contec CMS-60D Handheld Oximeter

Post by feeling_better » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:16 am

liv2kite wrote: It only looks like a wristwatch. I am guessing (by analogy with the other devices) that it probably does not have an onboard clock also.
liv2kite, I assume your reference to the wristwatch shape was for the model CMS-50F? This thread was mostly about CMS-60D (as in the subject line), just to clarify for others. BTW, Contec appears to have a whole series of these oximeters in various forms, one even a finger only model which was discussed in another thread in this forum.
Resmed S9 Elite cpap mode, H5i Humidifier, Swift FX Bella L nasal pillows

guyrws

Re: REVIEW: Contec CMS-60D Handheld Oximeter

Post by guyrws » Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:55 am

Hello,
I have been using a CMS 60C TFT colour Pulse oximeter for some months now.
You mention, in the review, about an adult ear sensor.
Does anyone know of a supplier please?
Guy.

User avatar
DreamDiver
Posts: 3082
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:19 am

Re: REVIEW: Contec CMS-60D Handheld Oximeter

Post by DreamDiver » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:18 am

guyrws wrote:You mention, in the review, about an adult ear sensor.
Does anyone know of a supplier please?
Guy,

In the review there's a link to the supplier:
http://www.semedicalsupply.com/cms-60d.htm
Scroll down the page, and you'll see the ear sensor you can buy from this supplier.

_________________
Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F20 Mask with Headgear + 2 Replacement Cushions
Additional Comments: Pressure: APAP 10.4 | 11.8 | Also Quattro FX FF, Simplus FF
Image
Most members of this forum are wonderful.
However, if you are the target of bullying on this forum, please consider these excellent alternative forums:
Apnea Board
Sleep Apnea Talk Forum
Free CPAP Advice

Be well,
Chris

User avatar
feeling_better
Posts: 802
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:08 pm

Re: REVIEW 2 contd: Contec CMS-60D Handheld Oximeter

Post by feeling_better » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:56 am

feeling_better wrote:I had a chance to compare the accuracy of this meter with the Nonen 3100 wrist recording type. There two meters on different fingers, they follow each other very closely +-1 count, mostly because finger contact variations, etc. There may be minor changes from finger to finger too, such I did check by exchanging the fingers on which each was. For all practical purposes they are identical in readings. To get lower readings, I held my breath

I had done a couple of nights' study with the two instruments. The results will not be available for a couple of weeks, since my doc is on vacation (and the dme will only give the results to the doc). I will report that comparison here when available.

Two more review items: I do like the Nonen's extremely simple auto mode. Put it on it records, remove it stops! But cms-60D is probably 1/6 the price...
Accuracy comparison update: I finally got the results of my clinical model (Nonen) 4 nights study, during which nights I had also used the CMS-60D at the same time. I had alternated putting the meters on two fingers every other night to make the study as balanced as possible.

The results are virtually identical, so both meters have similar accuracy! The clinical Nonen was sampling every 4 seconds, but the CMS does sampling every second. I had no control over the sampling rate setting of either meter. Because the CMS was sampling more often (which gives more detailed information), the CMS graphs were showing more changes.

So this reinforces my recommendation for this meter.
Resmed S9 Elite cpap mode, H5i Humidifier, Swift FX Bella L nasal pillows

g

Re: REVIEW: Contec CMS-60D Handheld Oximeter

Post by g » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:53 am

Thank you for pointing that out.
I have emailed them to find out how much postage to the UK would be.
Very expensive for just a sensor though!? The CMS 60C TFT colour Pulse oximeter I have only cost $99 of an international ebay seller.
Having said that, the only UK supplier I have fond that sells sensors, is charging £250??!! I have emailed Contec regarding an ear sensor twice and they do not seem keen on replying.
GuyRWS.

User avatar
Kiralynx
Posts: 2415
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:42 am

Re: REVIEW: Contec CMS-60D Handheld Oximeter

Post by Kiralynx » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:07 pm

What a great review.

You know, what we REALLY need is a oximeter that we could plug into our CPAPs and record the data to the smart card along with everything else so it would be easier to compare....

_________________
Mask: TAP PAP Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Improved Stability Mouthpiece
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead software, not listed. Currently using Dreamstation ASV, not listed
-- Kiralynx
Beastie, 2008-10-28. NEW Beastie, PRS1 960, 2014-05-14. NEWER Beastie, Dream Station ASV, 2017-10-17. PadaCheek Hosecover. Homemade Brandy Keg Chin Support. TapPap Mask.
Min PS = 4, Max PS = 8
Epap Range = 6 - 7.5

guyrws

Re: REVIEW: Contec CMS-60D Handheld Oximeter

Post by guyrws » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:50 am

Kiralynx wrote:What a great review.

You know, what we REALLY need is a oximeter that we could plug into our CPAPs and record the data to the smart card along with everything else so it would be easier to compare....
I am not into your CPAP's software but the Contec SPO2 software creates two files one of which is an Excel file. I am sure some bright spark could make a way of combining the two data flows.
GuyRWS.
PS.
I would like to point out that the SPO2 Review software is not fully compatible with Windows Vista.
I have heard form the suppliers who say they do not use Vista much in China. Some good sense there eh??!!

User avatar
dsm
Posts: 6996
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:53 am
Location: Near the coast.

Re: REVIEW: Contec CMS-60D Handheld Oximeter

Post by dsm » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:16 am

guyrws wrote:
Kiralynx wrote:What a great review.

You know, what we REALLY need is a oximeter that we could plug into our CPAPs and record the data to the smart card along with everything else so it would be easier to compare....
I am not into your CPAP's software but the Contec SPO2 software creates two files one of which is an Excel file. I am sure some bright spark could make a way of combining the two data flows.
GuyRWS.
PS.
I would like to point out that the SPO2 Review software is not fully compatible with Windows Vista.
I have heard form the suppliers who say they do not use Vista much in China. Some good sense there eh??!!
Have just been playing with my own CMS-50E (just arrived from China today I thought I was ordering it from Australia )

But it looks neat & seems easy to work. It records details at the rate of 1 per second (that is what is in the xls file). In the past I used to feed my prior Ohmeda 3740 into a program that created a csv file that I fed into excel & turned into a picture. e.g. http://www.internetage.ws/cpapdata/menu_0815.html
This was a bit of a painful process & trying to get the SpO2 data to line up with the output from the Vpap software (back then I used AutoScan), was painful.

I think the Resmed Reslink SpO2 records 3 events per second so trying to get the CMS-50E data into a format that ResScan software can see may prove tricky.

The unit can record 24 hrs of data & transfers it to the computer through a USB cable & a program (claimed to be Vista compatible) can display the data & produce the nice report shown on the CMS-50E web site.

I'll use it for the 1st time tonight & will post a page of the data it produces.

Cheers

DSM
xPAP and Quattro std mask (plus a pad-a-cheek anti-leak strap)

User avatar
billbolton
Posts: 2264
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:46 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: REVIEW: Contec CMS-60D Handheld Oximeter

Post by billbolton » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:32 am

guyrws wrote:I would like to point out that the SPO2 Review software is not fully compatible with Windows Vista.
I have SPO2 working fine on both Vista x86 and Vista x64, so I don't know yoiu think its not fully compatible

Cheers,

Bill

_________________
MachineMask
Additional Comments: Airmini, Medistrom Pilot 24, CMS 60C Pulse Oximeter, ResScan 6