Second Sleep Study And a Beard

I am scheduled for my sleep study on Friday December 28th. Mt initial results indicated that I had 60 episodes per hour, and I know I am a mouth breather. Am I correct in assuming I should shave my face clean (I have a Goatee) in order to achieve a propper seal?

I've asked this same question a couple of times, and the consensus I get is "not necessarily". Sure, the best seal would probably be on a clean-shaven face, but that doesn't mean you can't get a seal with a beard. Many men have said they do. I thought for a while that was my problem since I haven't found ANY FF mask that works for me. After many nights of fiddling with a Hybrid, then a Quattro, I've decided it's more the shape of my face than the facial hair.

May not be necessary to shave. Talk to the lab doing the study. It may limit the type of mask they can use.

Jerry

Thanks. Does the physician decide which machine; BiPAP/APAP/CPAP is used, or do we generally have a choice? If so, what is th "holy Grail" of machines?

If you were asking what kind of machine they use to titrate you, they have ones that can be remotely changed so as not to disturb your sleep.

Keep studying the machines, masks, etc. After they do your titration and go through it, they'll know what kind of machine will work best for you.....with regard to CPAP or Bi-Level. Whatever you get, make sure it's "data capable" and the software tells you what you need to know.
One way to get an idea of what you might want to get is to look at the equipment in everyone's profile. Mostly it's Respironics, ResMed or Puritan Bennett. They all have their advocates here.

Den

Just finished my sleep labs a few weeks ago and as you can see from my avatar, I also have a goatee. I also am a mouth breather. And I had 70 episodes per hour. The lab technician let me try a couple of mask but she strongly recommended the Resmed Quatto Full-Faced Mask. This is the one I used during the study and did not seem to have an issue with leaks.

Just got my machine (Respironics M-series APAP w/A-Flex) a couple of days ago. Since my DME is a respironics rep, they did not have the resmed quattro mask in stock. They gave me a respironics comfortfull 2 FFM while I wait on the quattro. My first night with this 'temp' mask was a disaster. Could not stop the leaks but stuck with it until 3:30am. Finally gave up as I had to get up at 6am for work. My point is... the mask is very important and you may have to work at it a while. Lots of tips on this forum. You will find the people on this board extremely helpful as well.

Like was stated above, research the machines. Get your doctor to write out the specific machine/ humidifier/ etc.. you want on the script. Then push to get the machine you want from the DME (if required). Best of luck.

nasal pillows seem to work best with facial hair. I'm 51 and have had a beard ever since I could grow one. I use the old tried and true Adams Circuit, which isn't in style any more, but lots of old timers on CPAP still use them.

Remember it's a matter of physics...how much area do you want to try and seal? Myself, I prefer just trying to seal around my nares.

Good luck finding what works for you.

As you can see, I have a bushy beard and like Jeff, I have worn mine for almost 30 years ...



Ummm ... errr .... wait, that's not Jeff or me, that’s my dog Mars.


Uhhh, this one shows me with my beard ...



I have tried about three full face masks (Ultra Mirage-similar to Quattro and the Flexfit 431 & 432) and did not have any major issues with beard leaks … and there are other members here who successfully use full face masks with beards. Now, I don't use a full face masks because they press on the sinus tissues surrounding my nose and they end up giving me sinus congestion which forces me to breathe through my mouth (very unpleasant for me). I have been able to successfully use the Hybrid and Liberty masks (combination nasal pillow and oral cushion) with very minimal beard leakage. However, I prefer to use nasal pillow interface masks and only use the Hybrid or Liberty when a sinus infection significantly limits airflow through my nose (w/ no sinus infection since starting treatment ... knocking hard on my wooden desk!!! ).

During my titration, I used the Swift nasal pillow mask and I did mouth leak some at the higher pressures … but they were still able to find a ballpark pressure which I later tweaked with the help of the super forum members here. I have since trained myself not to leak the air from my mouth. Finding the right mask interface is the hardest part of the treatment and that is the part for which you will need patience to find a mask for your unique facial features and comfort preferences.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the hairs at the sleep lab … save the worrying for when you have to deal with the DME to get your equipment. As Den said, start researching your machine options now and make sure you don’t get stuck with a machine that does not provide efficacy data.


Best-o-luck!

Pilot_Ron wrote:I am scheduled for my sleep study on Friday December 28th. Mt initial results indicated that I had 60 episodes per hour, and I know I am a mouth breather. Am I correct in assuming I should shave my face clean (I have a Goatee) in order to achieve a propper seal?

Actually, you have a Van Dyke - facial hair entirely surrounding just the mouth. There are two types of Van Dyke - modern, relatively circling the mouth like yours, and traditional like the 19th-century artist Anthony Van Dyck - as in a wide mustache with a goatee, but bare skin at the mouth's corners (positions 4 and 8 on the clock). A goatee is like a soul patch on steroids, generally on the chin but not extending to the corners of the mouth and always sans mustache - just like a goat. I have a modern Van Dyke.

For some full face masks, lack of facial hair doesn't seem to be essential. Search previous posts to see which masks seem to work for most guys with facial hair. I think most of the guys on the forum have facial hair anyway.

Because the mask already has holes, you're going to have some average leak rate. Modern xPAP machines sense electronically - and make up for - a certain range of average leak, still delivering the pressure you'll need even if you are leaking more at one time than another. A denser, thicker beard may cause a higher average leak rate due to the wider layer of hair compromising the seal between gasket and skin.

Whether you do or don't have facial hair, just about all full face masks leak a little, and not in places where or when you might expect them too. As you fall asleep and muscles on your face relax, you may find that what was comfortable when conscious now leaks around your eyes or cheeks as tension in muscles changes to a more slack position.

Also, if you're on your side or belly, the relaxation may add torque to one side of the mask actually pulling it partially off your face as you go unconscious. If your pressure is high enough, you may find the mask will 'float' some during that torquing like a puck on an air-hockey table.

Full face masks don't seem to be well designed to resist torque introduced by the slackened muscles. Your head swivels, but the mask stays relatively put. The most comfortable position for full face is usually lying on the back, but if you generally don't stay in one position after you fall asleep it's moot, eh?

Sooner or later you'll get used to a mask and find yourself sleeping in positions that introduce the least torque and cause the least leakage. You may find yourself with the straps too tight or too slack at first, but then, you'll find a balance that will resist some amount of torque without being so tight as to act like a tourniquet on your scalp or cheeks.

Research masks now, and have a list of at least five that you're willing to try at the sleep lab. If you are armed with some idea of what you want from the beginning and ask for it, they'll likely have a few models you may find comfortable. Don't be afraid to try several or more. Ask them what other men with facial hair have found most successful and try that if it isn't on your list. Your DME probably won't give you as much leeway, nor will you have a chance to actually try it at the DME in a relaxed supine position.

Don't let the DME push you around! Contact the sleep doctor if necessary to get the DME to comply with what you want or need in the way of masks and xPAP machine.

Good luck!

This is the discussion I was hoping for when I first asked this question, instead of "Shave it!" If my facial hair isn't causing the leaks, and I don't think it is, it must be my face...and I don't think my head is shaped any weirder than anyone elses'. (Could be wrong, I guess.) I'd rather use my CL2, but I can't keep my lips sealed, and the hair definitely messes up the taping or Polygrip strips. Chin strap is useless. I've tried all the masks at my DME. I called another one (there aren't many around) and when they heard I only wanted a mask, were very reluctant to deal with me, and said I'd have to have a prescription for a mask from my doctor, which I haven't had a chance to get yet. Frankly, I'm at a loss as to what to do next.

[quote="Fuzzy Guest"]This is the discussion I was hoping for when I first asked this question, instead of "Shave it!" If my facial hair isn't causing the leaks, and I don't think it is, it must be my face...and I don't think my head is shaped any weirder than anyone elses'. (Could be wrong, I guess.) I'd rather use my CL2, but I can't keep my lips sealed, and the hair definitely messes up the taping or Polygrip strips. Chin strap is useless. I've tried all the masks at my DME. I called another one (there aren't many around) and when they heard I only wanted a mask, were very reluctant to deal with me, and said I'd have to have a prescription for a mask from my doctor, which I haven't had a chance to get yet. Frankly, I'm at a loss as to what to do next.

JeffH wrote:

Fuzzy Guest wrote:This is the discussion I was hoping for when I first asked this question, instead of "Shave it!" If my facial hair isn't causing the leaks, and I don't think it is, it must be my face...and I don't think my head is shaped any weirder than anyone elses'. (Could be wrong, I guess.) I'd rather use my CL2, but I can't keep my lips sealed, and the hair definitely messes up the taping or Polygrip strips. Chin strap is useless. I've tried all the masks at my DME. I called another one (there aren't many around) and when they heard I only wanted a mask, were very reluctant to deal with me, and said I'd have to have a prescription for a mask from my doctor, which I haven't had a chance to get yet. Frankly, I'm at a loss as to what to do next.

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Try nasal pillows thru cpap.com. They don't require a script and the cost is much less than the DMEs.

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Nasal pillows are what I have. With the lip flutter, they don't work at all.

Fuzzy Guest wrote:Nasal pillows are what I have. With the lip flutter, they don't work at all.

Have you tried the ultra mirage full face? It has its quirks, but it seems to get the job done - and it works okay relatively short facial hair. It will end lip flutter, but don't be surprised if you experience some chipmunk cheekage.

Oh - and a little dryness of the mouth. The air hose goes indirectly into your mouth, but not too annoyingly so like the liberty.

[quote="DreamDiver"]
Actually, you have a Van Dyke - facial hair entirely surrounding just the mouth. There are two types of Van Dyke - modern, relatively circling the mouth like yours, and traditional like the 19th-century artist Anthony Van Dyck - as in a wide mustache with a goatee, but bare skin at the mouth's corners (positions 4 and 8 on the clock). A goatee is like a soul patch on steroids, generally on the chin but not extending to the corners of the mouth and always sans mustache - just like a goat. I have a modern Van Dyke.

DreamStalker wrote:As you can see, I have a bushy beard and like Jeff, I have worn mine for almost 30 years ...



Ummm ... errr .... wait, that's not Jeff or me, that’s my dog Mars.


Uhhh, this one shows me with my beard ...

ahhh...WHAT KIND OF DOG IS THAT???looks like some kind of bad Chihuahua experiment gone wrong..I love it!!