Respironics guarantee of trade if unhappy with A-Flex

The quote below was part of another thread.

Snoredog wrote:..................

A while back if you were able to stumble across and access Respironics dealer website (now don't quote me exactly) but it said something along the lines in offering their dealers a 30-day exchange program on the AFlex machine.

It basically said if your customer cannot tolerate the comfort offered by the new AFlex machine they (Respironics) would supply a new Bipap machine of dealer's choice to the customer at no additional cost to the dealer.

I seen that offer as pretty strong confidence level in that machine's ability (in them) in making an offer like that, we all know there is more than a $600 cost difference between those machines.

So basically, if you need Bipap and they supplied you with an AFlex machine and you couldn't tolerate it as the patient, they would exchange it for a Bipap Auto at no additional cost.

..........

I agree that Respironics must have some high confidence in the A-Flex to make this offer. However, regarding the cost difference, I think the difference in selling prices is being confused with the difference in Respironics costs. I see no reason why the out-of-pocket (or variable) costs of producing a bipap and producing an A-Flex should not be within a few dollars of each other.

Then that brings open the question of why such a large difference is selling prices. Just speculating, maybe Respironics is trying to grab a large share of the apap/bipap market with the A-Flex machine by a combination of its advanced algorithm and competitive price.

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, bipap, auto, APAP

I'd be surprised if this offer didn't cause sneaky consumers who want BiPAPs to buy the cheaper A-flex and then (ab)use the offer for the free trade-up to BiPAP. I'd also be surprised if Respironics had not considered this possibility.

[quote="roncron"]I'd be surprised if this offer didn't cause sneaky consumers who want BiPAPs to buy the cheaper A-flex and then (ab)use the offer for the free trade-up to BiPAP. I'd also be surprised if Respironics had not considered this possibility.

A flex has NOTHING to do with BiPAP===come on guys

What I can't figure out is why they still offer the "old" model automatic with C-Flex. The A-flex does everything the C-Flex does but is supposedly more comfortable for the exhale. The only reason I could come up with is that the DME's have alot of these older automatc C-Flex machines they need to move out so Respironics is continuing the product in their line to help them. This may just my bias against DME's.

[quote="Anonymous"]A flex has NOTHING to do with BiPAP===come on guys

[quote="roncron"]I'd be surprised if this offer didn't cause sneaky consumers who want BiPAPs to buy the cheaper A-flex and then (ab)use the offer for the free trade-up to BiPAP. I'd also be surprised if Respironics had not considered this possibility.

ibthebest wrote:What I can't figure out is why they still offer the "old" model automatic with C-Flex. The A-flex does everything the C-Flex does but is supposedly more comfortable for the exhale. The only reason I could come up with is that the DME's have alot of these older automatc C-Flex machines they need to move out so Respironics is continuing the product in their line to help them. This may just my bias against DME's.

Certainly. What DME wants to get stuck with obsolete inventory? If I were a DME owner I would tell Respironics to take back my stock of C-Flex machines and replace them with A-Flex.

This is a classic, often repeated business problem: How to introduce a new/improved version without ruining sales of the older model until the inventory can be sold out.

rooster wrote:The quote below was part of another thread.

Snoredog wrote:..................

A while back if you were able to stumble across and access Respironics dealer website (now don't quote me exactly) but it said something along the lines in offering their dealers a 30-day exchange program on the AFlex machine.

It basically said if your customer cannot tolerate the comfort offered by the new AFlex machine they (Respironics) would supply a new Bipap machine of dealer's choice to the customer at no additional cost to the dealer.

I seen that offer as pretty strong confidence level in that machine's ability (in them) in making an offer like that, we all know there is more than a $600 cost difference between those machines.

So basically, if you need Bipap and they supplied you with an AFlex machine and you couldn't tolerate it as the patient, they would exchange it for a Bipap Auto at no additional cost.

..........

I agree that Respironics must have some high confidence in the A-Flex to make this offer. However, regarding the cost difference, I think the difference in selling prices is being confused with the difference in Respironics costs. I see no reason why the out-of-pocket (or variable) costs of producing a bipap and producing an A-Flex should not be within a few dollars of each other.

Then that brings open the question of why such a large difference is selling prices. Just speculating, maybe Respironics is trying to grab a large share of the apap/bipap market with the A-Flex machine by a combination of its advanced algorithm and competitive price.

We all know their costs between the machines is probably zero, so they are not losing anything by having made that offer. The Bipap may use a different and/or higher end blower so it can go to higher 25 cm pressure(s), but that is only a guess, I believe the power supply may offer higher current than what is found on the Aflex version, it was that way on the Classic versions running on 24VDC instead of 12VDC.

So if or not that offer is still being made to dealers is unknown, my understanding it was only offered during the Medtrade show in Vegas during the launch of the AFlex machine and may have since disappeared.

So forget about it rooster, you cannot buy a Aflex machine "now" and hope to trade it in on a Bipap at no additional cost. I'm sure they already know cheap scapes will attempt that

ibthebest wrote:What I can't figure out is why they still offer the "old" model automatic with C-Flex.

Because some of us HATE Aflex, and prefer Cflex. I run my Apap on Cflex. I don't know why. I just know Aflex doesn't work for me.

But I want the ability to auto titrate. I've just recently done an auto titrate experiment, and changed my settings to 12cm instead of the 10cm I was prescribed. I'm feeling much better. But I do BEST with straight cpap and cflex, rather than auto with aflex.

Cheers,
B.

Anonymous wrote:

ibthebest wrote:What I can't figure out is why they still offer the "old" model automatic with C-Flex.

Because some of us HATE Aflex, and prefer Cflex. I run my Apap on Cflex. I don't know why. I just know Aflex doesn't work for me.

But I want the ability to auto titrate. I've just recently done an auto titrate experiment, and changed my settings to 12cm instead of the 10cm I was prescribed. I'm feeling much better. But I do BEST with straight cpap and cflex, rather than auto with aflex.

Cheers,
B.

_________________

Didn't I read in this forum that the A-Flex also has a C-Flex setting? So it really makes the C-Flex machines obsolete?

rooster wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ibthebest wrote:What I can't figure out is why they still offer the "old" model automatic with C-Flex.

Because some of us HATE Aflex, and prefer Cflex. I run my Apap on Cflex. I don't know why. I just know Aflex doesn't work for me.

But I want the ability to auto titrate. I've just recently done an auto titrate experiment, and changed my settings to 12cm instead of the 10cm I was prescribed. I'm feeling much better. But I do BEST with straight cpap and cflex, rather than auto with aflex.

Cheers,
B.

_________________

Didn't I read in this forum that the A-Flex also has a C-Flex setting? So it really makes the C-Flex machines obsolete?

It is the "mode" selection on the Aflex machine, it toggles between C-Flex and A-Flex those are the two available modes (CPAP, CFLEX, AUTO etc.) modes are no longer offered.

When you select C-Flex mode you are then given a seperate CFlex prompt to select the mode either "Off" (for CPAP mode) or 1, 2 or 3 as the default setting. If you select A-Flex then you don't get the Cflex prompt but get a AFlex field to select "Off" (for Auto mode) or 1, 2 or 3 as default A-Flex setting.

The button on the machine is no longer labeled "C-Flex" instead it is labeled "Flex" so depending on mode selected that button becomes CFlex/AFlex.

So it doesn't make a lot of sense to stock and supply CFlex versions when the newer AFlex version is available (now you know why I sold my M series Auto).

It may not cost them more much more to manufacture a bipap, I guess--I can't say I'm privy to the electronics manufacturing cost analysis arena. However, I do think people should be compensated for the research and development they do. However, that said, costing twice the price of a cpap? Seems a bit much to me.

I know when I was first diagnosed, I was well aware I needed a cpap. But when they told me I needed bipap, I went into shock. My initial thought process was--if I need such an expensive machine I must have heavy-duty apnea. But that turns out to be not true of course--I just have central apnea at higher pressures. I really don't know the logistics of it all--but I do know I was serious about compliance from the get go--I wasn't about to let a multi-thousand dollar machine collect dust if it could help me. Not a good reason to charge so much, but that was my thought process.

Jen

I am pretty sure Respironics will keep the M series C-flex machines around for a while, so they can offer different machines at different price points and capture as much of the market as possible.

If they dropped the M series with C-flex (on the grounds that the A-flex does everything the C-flex can do, plus more), then they would either have to reduce the price of the A-flex machine, or lose customers who would have bought the cheaper C-flex machine.

Roncon:
I am pretty sure Respironics will keep the M series C-flex machines around for a while, so they can offer different machines at different price points and capture as much of the market as possible.

I don't think $11 is a big price point difference! https://www.cpap.com/advanced-find-cpap ... ting-CPAPS