I give up... AmbienCR or Rozerem ?

I still cannot get the sleep I need. All the natural and over the counter sleep aids do not work anymore, a few days then no more.

CPAP use helps alot but im still beat.
Before I try a sledge hammer to my head I will give drugs a try.
Do you have any experince with Ambien CR or Rozerem?
I appreciate your input.
Thank you
-Andy

Consumer Reports did a comprehensive evaluation of prescription sleep medicines in the fall of last year. Some interesting things in the article. They concluded none of the drugs work well for more than a few days. Most public libraries have a subscription.

I haven't had luck with Ambien and tried Lunesta with no luck either. The only sleeping aid that's ever worked for me is called "Trazedone". It's an old style anti-depressant that they use for people with trouble sleeping. I don't believe they use it much for depression anymore with the new types like prozac, etc.. that are out.

Withing 15 minutes, I'm feeling great and ready for a nights sleep. The only thing I don't like about it is that it can cause some very vivid dreams!

My Dr. put me on Lunesta with my cpap, I couldn't get any sleep with machine, was awake more than not, with Lunesta I am asleep minutes after getting into the bed, I still wake up a couple times a night, but right back out in minutes, the meds also make the machine tolerable and I get some rest.

I wonder which is worse, hooked on sleep meds or crabby and exhausted from no sleep?

I have used Rozerem as well as melatonin and found them subjectively identical. This is not surprising since Rozerem is a melatonin receptor agonist (tickles your melatonin receptors). The real difference is price and availability, Rozerem is Rx only and costs about $3/tablet, melatonin is OTC and costs about 10 cents/tablet. For difficulty getting to sleep you might try melatonin 30 min before bedtime, and for difficulty staying asleep try controlled-release melatonin. It is not a particularly powerful sleep aid, and in my experience only helps when accompanied by good sleep hygiene. My preferred brand is Twinlab.

I have used Melatonin, 300MCG and it worked great for a few days. I have read the what you are telling me about Rozerem so I suppose it will not help much then.
Also tried Valarien root extract, that did nothing.
Various teas such as Chamomile with lemon, are good and made me feel relaxed but still not much help.
I guess ill give Ambien CR a try, ive got a free 7 day trial voucher.

melatonin works for me. If 3mg didn't work I wouldn't hesitate to take 6mg, but haven't ever needed to, 3mg works just fine. But you have to take it every night for it to be effective. Melatonin is not a one-night supplement, you are adding to your natural levels of melatonin which is shown to decrease as we age.

I would also suggest you try Hyland's Calms Forte:

http://www.hylands.com/

I get my Melatonin in 3mg dose from WonderLabs:
http://www.wonderlabs.com

You can cut the tablets in half or quarters for less or take two for more. With melatonin, you take it 30-45 minutes before bed, they Hyland's helps you calm down, if still not asleep in time you want you can take an additional aide Doxylamine succinate like found in UniSom or Kirkland's Sleep Aid.

andyomega wrote:I have used Melatonin, 300MCG and it worked great for a few days. I have read the what you are telling me about Rozerem so I suppose it will not help much then.
Also tried Valarien root extract, that did nothing.
Various teas such as Chamomile with lemon, are good and made me feel relaxed but still not much help.
I guess ill give Ambien CR a try, ive got a free 7 day trial voucher.

and that is your problem as I see it, you are NOT taking enough to do any good, that 300mcg dose is what they studied on "student"s, my opinion is if you are under 40yrs of age you shouldn't need or be taking it. That was the recommended dose for occasional insomnia found in "students". If you have chronic insomnia along with a sleep disorder you need to take much more for it to be effective.

There is "NO" single dose that works for every person. All our melatonin levels are different, depending on our age and other factors.

300micrograms is less than 1/3 of 1mg dose, takes 1000mcg=1mg. You probably need up to 3000mcg's or 10 times the amount you tried.

I would avoid time-release versions of melatonin or those low-dose versions. Why is it 1 study comes out about this microgram dose and everyone follows it when there have been a half dozen other studies over the years that have shown melatonin safe at levels 100 to 1000 times higher and no adverse side effects were seen.

Don't believe me? Try taking 2-3 of those 300mcg tablets and see what it does. I guarantee you won't have a 3rd arm growing out of your forehead from it.

Do ANY research you want and COMPARE the adverse side effects of melatonin to Ambien, Lunesta or any other prescription drug.

If you want melatonin to WORK for you, you have to take it in a effective dose that helps YOU. You have to determine what dose works for you, it is easy to figure out you have taken too much, you will be groggy in the morning, you want to take the amount that allows you to sleep within a reasonable time frame yet wake up at your desired time.

I think if you dig down deep enough you will find that 300mcg dose of melatonin recommendation came from a study sponsored by drug company funding that makes their own sleep medication costing hundreds per month. They don't want a cheap over the counter supplement to work or be shown to work, they won't sell their product.

Take multiple tablets and try a combination that works. Do a search for adverse side effects of melatonin, I bet you won't find any. Go to fda.gov and search for deaths related to melatonin use, you won't find a single one. Why? because it has been used for over 50 years and evaluated up down and side ways in doses up to 3000mg (milligrams) with no adverse side effects seen. Your body is only going to use what it can use and that is it.

300 micrograms of melatonin is a "physiologic" dose, meaning it produces about the same concentration in the blood that the body generates naturally (physiologically). Some researchers recommend this dose on the basis that it is very unlikely to cause problems, as it mimics what the body does anyway. Higher doses are "pharmacologic," meaning they produce blood concentrations that can only be achieved by administration of external melatonin (pharmacologically). Melatonin is thought to be safe in pharmacologic doses, but extensive toxicology testing has not been done on it to my knowledge (no money in it). Rozarem comes in an 8 mg fast-release formulation. I don't know if anyone has figured out the equivalent dose of melatonin.

There is a dose-response relationship for melatonin, which as pointed out is an individual thing. The more you take, the stronger the effect. It has a short half-life, maybe an hour, so normal fast-release formulations may not last long enough to help maintain sleep. That's where controlled-release is useful, but of course it increases the chance of morning grogginess. It's an individual thing.

Unlike most sleep aids, regular melatonin use does not cause one to develop tolerance leading to ever-higher doses. On the other hand, for most people it's not as powerful as they are either.

There's a lot of good info on melatonin in some of the other threads.

still cannot get the sleep I need. All the natural and over the counter sleep aids do not work anymore, a few days then no more.

i know how annoying it can be to be told something you already know, but i don't know the background on what must be a very difficult situation for you...you mention trying natural remedies--have you tried acupuncture?

Before I try a sledge hammer to my head I will give drugs a try.

again, don't want to point out the obvious, but have you been following the pur-sleep trial threads at all?

best of luck to you...i really hope you find some relief

sharon

sharon1965 wrote:

still cannot get the sleep I need. All the natural and over the counter sleep aids do not work anymore, a few days then no more.

i know how annoying it can be to be told something you already know, but i don't know the background on what must be a very difficult situation for you...you mention trying natural remedies--have you tried acupuncture?

Before I try a sledge hammer to my head I will give drugs a try.

again, don't want to point out the obvious, but have you been following the pur-sleep trial threads at all?

best of luck to you...i really hope you find some relief

sharon

pur-sleep thread? i shall look for it.
tonight i will take 600 MCG to see if there is a difference.
thanks guys

Andyomega,

I am in general loath to go the prescription route if there are safe natural alternatives. But if you are ready for the sledgehammer...

I have been at the sledgehammer stage myself and am trying a prescription from my sleep doc neurologist -- Lyrica.

Lyrica is a drug used for pain (frequently that associated with peripheral neuropathy) and for epilepsy seizure control. However, some docs are using it off label because it seems to help people achieve deeper sleep (stages 3 & 4). I have been using it for a couple of months. I can't say it has done wonders, but it does help some. And so far, no negative side effects. Unfortunately, it doesn't do a darn thing to help me go to sleep - grrr.

Janna

Everywhere I look, I see these little warnings not to take melatonin for more than two weeks. Why? From what I've been able to find out, it metabolizes pretty quick and is gone. Is that warning just for people who don't know they've got a sleep problem?

I've been using the 300mcg dose for the past week, I was getting frantic from staying awake hours and hours trying to go to sleep with dang mask on, and it seems to be helping. I'm also trying to get out into morning sunlight to try and help my body figure out that mornings are for being awake and nights are for being asleep. Poor man's lightbox.

Susan M

I have been taking Ambien almost nightly for the past 5 years. It works as well now as when I started. I always can sleep when I take it. I tried Rozerum which worked as well as Vitamin C (meaning no help at all). Everyone is different as you can tell by the answers to your question. I hate that I have to take a pill to get to sleep but I hate not sleeping even more. It gets out of my system quickly enough that I don't have a "hang over" if I take it at least 6 hours before wake up time. I've tried every other sleeping medication made except Lunesta which includes melatonin, Trazadone, valium, dalmane, halcion, chloral hydrate, benadryl, and Rozerum to name a few. All had too many side-effects. To me, Ambien is a miracle drug.