ResMed Tango CPAP Machine

PS. I never had a "caregiver". (and when I met my sleep doc, I KNEW I was on my own)

MY "caregiver" is ME.

It's MY therapy.....I'm responsible for ME.

Den

I think the introduction of an affordable, basic but effective CPAP is a good thing. The world does not end at the borders of the US of A and in large parts of the world an affordable CPAP might make the difference between a basic CPAP or no CPAP at all.

Affordable is a good thing. However, just as a car needs a few essential things (like brakes) so too does a CPAP. I think that selling a CPAP that does not have leak compensation is like selling a car without brakes.

Every CPAP machine today compensates for leaks. It is standard.

The problem is that there good caregivers are the minority and most have very poor or nonexisitant. This is the problem with the entire industry. I want to see that changed.

Now a CPAP machine needs to be designed for the patient. The caregiver is not going to be the one sleeping with it every night (well unless he/she too is a user). So a machine designed for a caregiver does not make any sense.

I acutally think we are all on the same page. The problem with messageboards is the lack of tone and emotion when reading a post so misunderstandings can result.

DP wrote:I would not agree with that. The patient needs to be educated by the caregiver. Not everybody comes to this forum to learn. The caregiver needs to make sure the patient understands his/her therapy completely. They need to understand what OSA is and the effect of untreated OSA. They need to understand how CPAP works. They need to understand all the equipment options that are available to him/her. They need somebody they can work with to find the "perfect" mask for him/her. They need somebody they can call and actually get in touch with when there are problems. They need a caregiver who will come them to see how they are doing. They need a caregiver who will let them know when it is time to replace certain things or to let them know when a new mask comes out. They need a caregiver who is going to totally get involved with their overall care. A caregiver who actually cares.

But what most actually get is NOT what you envision. And THAT is the point WE are trying to get across. You are referring to an ideal situation NOT the USUAL situation.

The Resmed rep came by yesterday. She had the new Quattro, Liberty and talked about the Tango and Malibu.

I thought she had made the suggestin to DO the tango in Malibu but I had to politely decline as it would be a conflict of interest. Then I realized she was talking about the new Resmed XPAPs

But seriously, the Tango is a cool little deal. Even has a heated humidifier and a ramp. Sure it doesn't have auto-leak adjustment or whatever else it was that someone was pissed about, but you have to skip over the Compact and Escape to get that feature in the Elite or Vantage, so it's far from a damning feature in and of itself, considering other ones are without it too.

It is what it is....keep that in mind. For some people, XPAP ownership has been out of reach because of $$$. People with no insurance or whatever the circumstance would just be without. At least now, they can get treatment. The rep said it would be low 200's with humdifier and around $195 without. I guess she meant the DME's prices, I don't know. Probably.

As far as outlawing every machine that isn't data capable? Funny thought, but you cannot be serious....no really...come on. Well let's just keep XPAP even further out of the reach of some people then. Take away their choice and let us dictate to them what we think they need. Sounds like DME thinking to me. Sure, therapy is optimized with a data capable, but some people could care less about those features. Why should they be made to fool with it? Remarkably, a good number of people get more than adequate therapy every night from their straight pressure, no data-capable, bare bones CPAP. Go figure.

And as far as SOME people on this board thinking this is going to be dumped on unsuspecting patients. Well, maybe...maybe not. But you know what, if it happens, it's the patient's own fault if they don't get what they want. As I'm sure everyone will agree that you need to educate yourself on everything related to this condition, equipment especially. Don't think a DME, sleep lab/doc or anybody else will look out for you like you can. Sure, people get screwed all the time by DME's. Sure, the DME's should go to hell for it too, but it will only happen IF YOU LET THEM. To borrow a phrase from "Finding Nemo"......"Fish gotta swim, birds gotta eat, DME's gotta screw". It's just the way it is. There is no reason why someone cannot get on the Internet and do a little research and hang around a few forums and arm themselves. Go to the damn library for crying out loud, it's free public access. There is no excuse.

To quote Den, "It's YOUR therapy"

Hell Yeah!!

Now get off your lazy ass and go read an abstract

If most people with this problem are like me, when I came out of the sleep study and was told here is your script go get a machine and sleep under it. I was in shock and denial. It took me 6 months to find this site and get educated. Every person I know who has goe through this has been given the absolute bottom end machine and about half have ditched it in the first month. If they had gotten a decent machine maybe they would have had a chance. Cflex or what ever they call it on the other machines or Bipap in my opinion is almost a necesity. I'm not sure if I could have made it on a basic machine. I could most likely use one at times now but if but at first, no way.

DP wrote:Every CPAP machine today compensates for leaks. It is standard.

The problem is that there good caregivers are the minority and most have very poor or nonexisitant. This is the problem with the entire industry. I want to see that changed.

Now a CPAP machine needs to be designed for the patient. The caregiver is not going to be the one sleeping with it every night (well unless he/she too is a user). So a machine designed for a caregiver does not make any sense.

I acutally think we are all on the same page. The problem with messageboards is the lack of tone and emotion when reading a post so misunderstandings can result.

With the potential technological "capabilities" that could be designed into the machines and the fact that the generations of users that are (or going to be) using these machines, are generally techno-savvy, the mind-set of "keeping them in the dark" just ain't gonna cut it any more.
With the tens of millions of potential users of this therapy, there aren't enough of you folks around for the ones who don't want to be that "into" their therapy, either.

Yep, I think we're on the same page.

Den

Good point Den!!

The paradigm is shifting!!

Case in point, my setup this afternoon actually asked ME about Cflex!!!! How cool is that. Said he'd been doing some "reading". He was a little coy about how much he knew, but it's cool. I said you can call me anytime to "talk shop" or if you read something online you don't quite get. BTW, he is 22yo. The next generation IS more techno-savvy.

The Tango also delivers higher levels of humidification than the S8 or any of the respironics machines. It's only competitor from a humidification standpoint is F&P. Poor humidification is one of the top reasons why CPAP fails for people.

reval wrote:I think the introduction of an affordable, basic but effective CPAP is a good thing. The world does not end at the borders of the US of A and in large parts of the world an affordable CPAP might make the difference between a basic CPAP or no CPAP at all.]

I agree, reval. At least one "affordable, basic but effective cpap" machine was already introduced long ago by Puritan Bennett with their 420G cpap machine. It is sold around the world, as far as I know.

I expect we'll all hear sooner or later what kind of price resmed makes their "approved dealers" set as a minimum for the Tango. My guess is they will make their dealers price it considerably higher than either of these machines:

Puritan Bennett 420G basic cpap machine - $254.00
Has leak compensation and automatic altitude adjustment. The Tango has neither of those features.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage-advanced.php?PNum=139

Probasics Zzz-PAP basic cpap machine - $240.00
Like the tango, does not have leak compensation. Has automatic altitude adjustment, which the Tango does not have.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage-advanced.php?PNum=2507

DP wrote:Every CPAP machine today compensates for leaks. It is standard.

Doesn't look like it to me, according to this fact sheet on resmed's own site... this link is to the clinician's brochure about the Tango:

C-Series Tango Fact Sheet

Doesn't look like automatic leak compensation is in the specs for any of these basic resmed machines:

C-series Tango
S8 Compact
S8 Escape

rested gal wrote: Doesn't look like automatic leak compensation is in the specs for any of these basic resmed machines:

C-series Tango
S8 Compact
S8 Escape

I'll call my rep tomorrow and see what he says. Thanks for pointing that out.

BrianRT wrote:For some people, XPAP ownership has been out of reach because of $$$. People with no insurance or whatever the circumstance would just be without. At least now, they can get treatment.

Some of those people with no insurance or whatever the circumstance look for affordable machines from online stores and other sources on the internet.

resmed sure wasn't/isn't concerned about making their products available to the those people when they put their minimum prices that online stores had to charge in place:

LINKS to discussions about resmed's internet sales policy
viewtopic.php?p=98895

BrianRT wrote:The rep said it would be low 200's with humdifier and around $195 without. I guess she meant the DME's prices, I don't know. Probably.

I think your guess is probably right, too...that she was talking about the price the DME could buy them for, not the price the DME would set for the the end user. We shall see.

Obviously cpap.com, being in a business themselves, are buying the PB 420G's and the Probasic zzzz cpaps for less than they are pricing them at.

A basic leaf blower just doesn't cost much, does it?

BrianRT wrote:BTW, he is 22yo. The next generation IS more techno-savvy.

Mebbe 'cuz the older generation is telling 'em on cpaptalk about C-Flex and such things.

BrianRT wrote:The Resmed rep came by yesterday. She had the new Quattro, Liberty and talked about the Tango and Malibu.

I thought she had made the suggestin to DO the tango in Malibu but I had to politely decline as it would be a conflict of interest. Then I realized she was talking about the new Resmed XPAPs

But seriously, the Tango is a cool little deal. Even has a heated humidifier and a ramp. Sure it doesn't have auto-leak adjustment or whatever else it was that someone was pissed about, but you have to skip over the Compact and Escape to get that feature in the Elite or Vantage, so it's far from a damning feature in and of itself, considering other ones are without it too.

It is what it is....keep that in mind. For some people, XPAP ownership has been out of reach because of $$$. People with no insurance or whatever the circumstance would just be without. At least now, they can get treatment. The rep said it would be low 200's with humdifier and around $195 without. I guess she meant the DME's prices, I don't know. Probably.

As far as outlawing every machine that isn't data capable? Funny thought, but you cannot be serious....no really...come on. Well let's just keep XPAP even further out of the reach of some people then. Take away their choice and let us dictate to them what we think they need. Sounds like DME thinking to me. Sure, therapy is optimized with a data capable, but some people could care less about those features. Why should they be made to fool with it? Remarkably, a good number of people get more than adequate therapy every night from their straight pressure, no data-capable, bare bones CPAP. Go figure.

And as far as SOME people on this board thinking this is going to be dumped on unsuspecting patients. Well, maybe...maybe not. But you know what, if it happens, it's the patient's own fault if they don't get what they want. As I'm sure everyone will agree that you need to educate yourself on everything related to this condition, equipment especially. Don't think a DME, sleep lab/doc or anybody else will look out for you like you can. Sure, people get screwed all the time by DME's. Sure, the DME's should go to hell for it too, but it will only happen IF YOU LET THEM. To borrow a phrase from "Finding Nemo"......"Fish gotta swim, birds gotta eat, DME's gotta screw". It's just the way it is. There is no reason why someone cannot get on the Internet and do a little research and hang around a few forums and arm themselves. Go to the damn library for crying out loud, it's free public access. There is no excuse.

To quote Den, "It's YOUR therapy"

Hell Yeah!!

Now get off your lazy ass and go read an abstract

If people can't afford a data capable PAP machine, what makes you think they can afford a computer and internet service to do research?

If people could care less about a data capable feature, what makes you think those people will care anymore about their treatment to go to a library?

Getting back to the car anology ... it is like selling a car to someone and leaving out the steering wheel. Does that make it right that selling a car without a steering wheel should not be outlawed because car dealers should be able to screw unsuspecting car buyers?


A data capbale machine will do everything a non-data capable machine can do only a lot better and more effective ... and it costs very little to add the functionality even if it's done in China

My point is that the cost difference of adding data capability is insignificant ... kind'a like a steering wheel for a car.