Phillips / Philips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread

[Goofproof]

A chest x-ray shows whether there is lung tissue scarring, called fibrosis, or other things. Why wouldn't I get one?

X-rays are known human carcinogens.

Are you still going to Buster Browns to have your feet shoe fit X-Rayed.

[GrumpyHere]

Dreamstation 2's in stock (I asked, they didn't even mention it). I bought one of them and will pick it up tomorrow morning.

If you use OSCAR, that may not be the best idea given the following post from apneaboard

Sleeprider Wrote:

Philips is in the driver's seat on this, and has also encrypted the data on new DS-2 machines.  In my opinion, a DS 2 simply gives you a brick.  From now on, you will pay your doctor for your CPAP data.  If that is what you want, go get it.  If you don't think that is right, get a Resmed as a replacement.

I don't know if the encryption is insurmountable, but it sure does represent a challenge.  Philips official position is

Philips has determined that as a company we must encrypt data for privacy and security reasons. When writing a prescription file to an SD Card using Care Orchestrator, such a file will be created for a specific target device that can decrypt the prescription and other files that were created by Care Orchestrator

This statement means they intend to deny patients access to detailed data.  The data may have keys that are specific to the machine serial number or have another decryption algorithm.  So far, we cannot support Philips Respironics machines in Oscar until that problem is solved. It would be nice to think we could call on Philips for help on this, but considering their obvious efforts to prevent patients from seeing their own data, and making them rely in a DME or physician, I'll let you calculate the odds.  Oscar is a non-profit, volunteer effort to enable patients to access their data.  Philips is setting an encryption on new machines to prevent this.  How much effort would  you suggest the volunteers expend to help Philips ?  People that want data without paying doctor fees or other access, will probably look elsewhere, and should.

[chunkyfrog]

We can hope that the Oscar team gets a codebreaker--or at the least a LEAK.

[JLROhio]

Dreamstation 2's in stock (I asked, they didn't even mention it). I bought one of them and will pick it up tomorrow morning.

If you use OSCAR, that may not be the best idea given the following post from apneaboard

Sleeprider Wrote:

Philips is in the driver's seat on this, and has also encrypted the data on new DS-2 machines.  In my opinion, a DS 2 simply gives you a brick.  From now on, you will pay your doctor for your CPAP data.  If that is what you want, go get it.  If you don't think that is right, get a Resmed as a replacement.

I don't know if the encryption is insurmountable, but it sure does represent a challenge.  Philips official position is

Philips has determined that as a company we must encrypt data for privacy and security reasons. When writing a prescription file to an SD Card using Care Orchestrator, such a file will be created for a specific target device that can decrypt the prescription and other files that were created by Care Orchestrator

This statement means they intend to deny patients access to detailed data.  The data may have keys that are specific to the machine serial number or have another decryption algorithm.  So far, we cannot support Philips Respironics machines in Oscar until that problem is solved. It would be nice to think we could call on Philips for help on this, but considering their obvious efforts to prevent patients from seeing their own data, and making them rely in a DME or physician, I'll let you calculate the odds.  Oscar is a non-profit, volunteer effort to enable patients to access their data.  Philips is setting an encryption on new machines to prevent this.  How much effort would  you suggest the volunteers expend to help Philips ?  People that want data without paying doctor fees or other access, will probably look elsewhere, and should.

Yikes!!

I wonder if ResMed will follow suit with their next model (AirSense 11 family of CPAP's) and encrypt data.
I haven't been following the AirSense 11 threads too deeply...so if this question is already answered, I apologize for bringing it up.

[Pugsy]

Yikes!!

I wonder if ResMed will follow suit with their next model (AirSense 11 family of CPAP's) and encrypt data.
I haven't been following the AirSense 11 threads too deeply...so if this question is already answered, I apologize for bringing it up.

So far I haven't seen any reports from the OSCAR development team pointing to the AirSense 11 data being a problem and I know they have the data. So we can sit back and cross our fingers on that one.
As for Respironics encrypting the data....can't say as it surprises me and I wouldn't be surprised if down the road the other machine manufacturers did something similar. They have never wanted the patient to have any sort of access beyond the limited data they choose to give us on the LCD screens on the machines. We used to worry about SD cards not being used and it's even worse now with Respironics...they still use SD cards but make it difficult to get the data off the cards.

What really pisses me off about that whole deal is the fact that all the manufacturers have always tried to please the DMEs and doctors and they don't give a rats ass what the patient might want....so guess who is to ultimately to blame for this new change...yep, the DMEs and doctors.

Encore Pro should eventually be updated to work though because that's what DMEs and doctors use....but man is it a PITA to install and use...and it's Windows only as well. I don't see them ever moving beyond Windows.
And all the little tricks we can do with OSCAR....can't do any of them with Encore.

But...after this whole fiasco with the recall and the encryption stuff....it will be a cold day in hell before I ever use one of their machines again or even recommend them.

[Dog Slobber]

Yikes!!

I wonder if ResMed will follow suit with their next model (AirSense 11 family of CPAP's) and encrypt data.
I haven't been following the AirSense 11 threads too deeply...so if this question is already answered, I apologize for bringing it up.

So far I haven't seen any reports from the OSCAR development team pointing to the AirSense 11 data being a problem and I know they have the data. So we can sit back and cross our fingers on that one.
As for Respironics encrypting the data....can't say as it surprises me and I wouldn't be surprised if down the road the other machine manufacturers did something similar.

Yes, in fact BlueDragon has indicated it's going very well on supporting the AirSense 11.

We are making great progress on adding support for the AirSense 11 since ResMed has apparently made only minor changes to the data files. The DS2 presents a much knottier problem as decoding the data is more difficult with the changes that Philips Respironics made to the data.

[JLROhio]

Yikes!!

I wonder if ResMed will follow suit with their next model (AirSense 11 family of CPAP's) and encrypt data.
I haven't been following the AirSense 11 threads too deeply...so if this question is already answered, I apologize for bringing it up.

So far I haven't seen any reports from the OSCAR development team pointing to the AirSense 11 data being a problem and I know they have the data. So we can sit back and cross our fingers on that one.
As for Respironics encrypting the data....can't say as it surprises me and I wouldn't be surprised if down the road the other machine manufacturers did something similar.

Yes, in fact BlueDragon has indicated it's going very well on supporting the AirSense 11.

We are making great progress on adding support for the AirSense 11 since ResMed has apparently made only minor changes to the data files. The DS2 presents a much knottier problem as decoding the data is more difficult with the changes that Philips Respironics made to the data.

This is good to hear, for future ResMed 11 users...

...and not so good for Phillips DS2 users going forward.

I think I'll be buying some more ResMed Stock - https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/RMD?p=R ... c=fin-srch

[amenite]

Looks like I'll be sticking with Resmed for the foreseeable future, for reasons including but not limited to:

1. Philips machine data will be encrypted going forward
2. My new Airsense 10 is way quieter than any of my PRS1 machines ever were
3. My 95% pressure is 2 cm lower after 5 days on the Resmed Airsense 10 Auto
4. I think I may be getting better quality sleep.

We'll see what's on offer from Philips when the dust settles and I might keep one around for backup, but only because I already have all the battery/DC cables, extra power supply etc. for it.

[lvthunder]

If it's still working within specs and doing the job it's supposed to do, and I'm still happy with it, why should I have to buy a new one just because it's reached a particular age? Again, what's the justification for replacing it? Just because it's medical equipment? Then, why not two years, or one year? It seems it should be my choice as to when I want to replace it.

I'm not saying to disregard the age. As your unit gets older you need to think of a backup. That may involve buying a new machine or using a previous machine. Right now, I'm using an M series that was replaced by a System One that was replaced by the Dreamstation.

The five-year replacement is part of the specs. Just remember if the machine stops functioning while you are asleep you are breathing in the air you just exhaled so you won't be getting air with very much oxygen in it. I for one would rather replace a machine while it is still fully functional rather than wait until it dies on me.

[zonker]

I for one would rather replace a machine while it is still fully functional rather than wait until it dies on me.

i for one would rather have a functional backup machine so i wouldn't have to be without waiting for the dead one to be replaced or repaired.

[HairyReasoner]

The five-year replacement is part of the specs. Just remember if the machine stops functioning while you are asleep you are breathing in the air you just exhaled so you won't be getting air with very much oxygen in it. I for one would rather replace a machine while it is still fully functional rather than wait until it dies on me.

I have my machine stop functioning on me while I sleep sometimes. It happens every time there's a power outage at night when I'm sleeping. I wake up to that momentary loss of air until the flap in my mask opens and lets back in air.

After recently being through an overnight power outage, I do agree with you that I don't want my machine to die without having a replacement. With a 120 AHI untreated, I can't sleep without one. Right now I'm using my M series machine I used before my current DS 1 and previous System One. I may go ahead and purchase a new one to be ready if the M series dies. If my M series dies before I buy a new one I will be forced to choose which of my other machines is less risky and use that.

But somebody who has a more mild sleep apnea might have a bit more flexibility than I do.

[tisket]

As chance would have it, I had a CT scan of my abdomen the week the recall was announced. I couldn't help but notice the brand on the CT scanner - Philips.

One of the findings was "Pleuropericardial thickening with bibasilar linear scarring or atelectasis."

I had a similar scan in early 2018, and "lung bases are clear" was in that report.

I started using a PR System 1 in January 2017, till late 2020.

This may of course be coincidence and the cause of the lung scarring/collapsed lobes may not be related to the machine. I suspect a number of continued doctor visits and tests are in front of me to find out. The scans were not for lung related issues, if they were, they would have been chest scans. (I am pretty sure those are now in my future.) However, I have no intention of letting the System 1 out of my hands for a repair until I find out exactly what is going on. The inside of that machine may contain critical evidence, legal and medical, of what is happening to me. And I certainly won't open it myself, lest it be tainted for evidentiary purposes.

This is a rather odd situation, where a company which may be liable for causing great injury, may be asking people to send back their machines for repairs - which would remove all evidence of foam degradation from the patient's control forever, quite likely before the patient even realized they had an injury, and with the patient having no idea of the state of the foam at the time they sent the machine back. I had no idea I had lung damage going on, I assumed my frequent coughs (for which I've often seen doctors, who prescribed the usual) were related to allergies. I was scanned for something else and the lung finding was serendipitous. Might have been years before lung problems caused me to see a doctor about that, and the recall by then would have been long in the past.

Think twice before sending your machine back to Philips, especially if you have another machine you can use.

[JLROhio]

As chance would have it, I had a CT scan of my abdomen the week the recall was announced. I couldn't help but notice the brand on the CT scanner - Philips.

One of the findings was "Pleuropericardial thickening with bibasilar linear scarring or atelectasis."

I had a similar scan in early 2018, and "lung bases are clear" was in that report.

I started using a PR System 1 in January 2017, till late 2020.

This may of course be coincidence and the cause of the lung scarring/collapsed lobes may not be related to the machine. I suspect a number of continued doctor visits and tests are in front of me to find out. The scans were not for lung related issues, if they were, they would have been chest scans. (I am pretty sure those are now in my future.) However, I have no intention of letting the System 1 out of my hands for a repair until I find out exactly what is going on. The inside of that machine may contain critical evidence, legal and medical, of what is happening to me. And I certainly won't open it myself, lest it be tainted for evidentiary purposes.

This is a rather odd situation, where a company which may be liable for causing great injury, may be asking people to send back their machines for repairs - which would remove all evidence of foam degradation from the patient's control forever, quite likely before the patient even realized they had an injury, and with the patient having no idea of the state of the foam at the time they sent the machine back. I had no idea I had lung damage going on, I assumed my frequent coughs (for which I've often seen doctors, who prescribed the usual) were related to allergies. I was scanned for something else and the lung finding was serendipitous. Might have been years before lung problems caused me to see a doctor about that, and the recall by then would have been long in the past.

Think twice before sending your machine back to Philips, especially if you have another machine you can use.

You might be a perfect candidate for those lawyers who are looking at starting a potential class-action lawsuit. They were mentioned and their website provided earlier in this thread. The fact that you actually have a historic CT scan from 2018 and now have an abnormal CT scan - who knows why/what may have changed.

You're right...that machine may hold the evidence to a very large lawsuit - HOLD ON to it...until you talk to your doctors AND lawyers!

FYI...I'm not an attorney and provide no legal advice...but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once and watched one of those lawyer shows!

[colomom]

I apologize if this has been discussed (it’s hard to do more than skim the crazy number of posts on this thread, many of which are completely off topic).

My question to those of you who have those of you who have submitted claims with Phillips is: have you heard anything back? My son has a Dreamstation which we submitted a claim for, so far it’s been crickets.

Also haven’t gotten anywhere with his doc or worthless DME.

Any suggestions on next steps we can take to get my son’s machine fixed would be greatly appreciated.

[zonker]

My question to those of you who have those of you who have submitted claims with Phillips is: have you heard anything back? My son has a Dreamstation which we submitted a claim for, so far it’s been crickets.

not me.