New APAP user without sleep study looking for advice

It may be that you simply need more than 4 to 6 hours of sleep for the body to feel markedly better.

That's true. Perhaps gradually I'll be able to sleep for around 8 hours.

I can certainly empathize with you....for several months I have been battling not getting enough hours of sleep myself ....and I desperately need them.
Good quality sleep can be very fragile for any number of reasons and the cpap machine only fixes one possible culprit...that's airway issues. It doesn't do a damn thing for fragile sleep from something other than airway issues and the culprit list is miles long unfortunately.

Not getting enough hours of sleep for the restorative powers of sleep to work their magic will leave us either feeling crappy when we get up or later in the day. Been there and done that and have the Tshirt.
We need not only a nice low AHI to feel good....we need enough hours of sleep and when we don't get them then we pay for it.
We need the normal cycles of sleep and enough of those cycles and when the hours of sleep are short we don't get enough of the cycles.

I have been on cpap for 12 years now. I used to average between 7 and 8 hours of decent sleep (decent for me anyway since I am an old woman with some arthritis issues and pain has messed with my sleep for years) but since last year getting enough hours of sleep has become a real challenge for me. A good night for me now is 6 hours of sleep and rare....and 6 hours simply isn't enough sleep no matter how optimal my sleep apnea is treated. I would feel like crap even if I didn't have OSA with only 6 hours of sleep.

My AHI is always nice and low....that's all my machine can do and it's doing a good job in that regard but the reason I am not getting enough hours of sleep is from something that the machine can't fix.
FWIW....on the nights where I only get maybe 4 hours of sleep....I always have a headache along with just feeling like total dog poo in general. Unfortunately I have been having a lot of those nights lately. I am in the progress of trying to figure out what changed to make it so I don't sleep as long as I need to. It's a challenge for sure but to fix the problem I first have to try to identify the problem and I can't pinpoint what changed for sure. Some of it may be the worsening of my arthritis issues and worsening pain but the jury is still out on that. Some of it may be Covid related....either physical or mental as I think that I had Covid back the first week of March 2020 and have had a long of long term symptoms since then that I didn't have prior to catching whatever it was that I had.
Hell...some of it may simply be age related...I ain't no spring chicken.

What you might do is consider taking some sort of OTC sleep aid to see if it helps you stay asleep a little longer.
Bear in mind that those OTC sleep aids also come with some baggage and you may be damned if you do and damned if you don't.
For me that excess baggage amounts to a foggy hang over effect for a couple of hours in the morning but I decided that is less of a problem than feeling like total dog poo all day long. I don't take them every night...I save them for taking after I have had several nights in a row with 4 or 5 hours of sleep and I just absolutely have to try to get more hours of sleep. I am to that point right now and tonight I will take something....In the last week the best number of hours of sleep I have attained was barely 6 hours...last night it was 4 1/2 hours and I feel it. So a week of this means I will resort to medications tonight. I feel horrible.

Now I have no mask issues at all...so that isn't a reason for my crappy sleep.
You are still in the "finding the right mask" stage and once you do that and the mask becomes second nature and disappears when you put it on....your sleep quality might improve but remember it will help only if the mask was part of the problem. The mask may or may not be part of the problem.

So I share all this because I wanted you to know that cpap and low AHI doesn't always fix our problems not matter how much we might want them to. It's an ongoing battle that we will always fight. 12 years on cpap and I still have battles. Sometimes I win the battle and sometimes I lose the battle. Right now I am in losing mode but I won't quit battling.

gadgetmaniah wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:05 am

So I went for the BMC (Chinese company's) mask. It's better than I expected and fits me very well. I barely have to tighten it and it doesn't leak. My AHI has gone down from around 2 on the Quattro Air to around 1 on this mask.

One question - is it normal to still be experiencing symptoms of sleep deprivation 5-6 weeks into your CPAP therapy? Much of my symptoms have improved, particularly the fatigue when getting up. Without the CPAP, I would stay in bed for about 10 hours and still wake up feeling terribly fatigued. But now, with the CPAP, I can easily wake up with 4-6 hours of sleep. The mental fatigue/fog has cleared up a lot too. And, if anyone has been following been this thread, my chronic constipation has been relieved as well. However, I still experience a very slight headache and a feeling that I've not had enough sleep, though the severity of these symptoms has reduced. I also experience sleep deprived and dry eyes.

it was certainly the case for me that it took longer than six weeks to clear out the "sleep debt". like you, i started noticing gradual lessening of symptoms. there was never really an A-HA! moment when it all came together.

i still don't bound out of bed with a smile on my lips and a song in my heart.

hell, see my sig-->

ETA: like a lot of things regarding sleep apnea, we are all different and aren't impacted the same.

gadgetmaniah wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:05 am

My AHI has gone down from around 2 on the Quattro Air to around 1 on this mask.

That sounds like you are breathing very well. Now that you have this under control, let's talk about sleep hygiene. As Pugsy mentions, good sleep is about more than breathing well. Have a look at this --->

Good Sleep for CPAPers

- Practice good sleep hygiene (Google it and read several sources; ignore extreme advice.)
- Eat a good diet
- Have a regular, moderate exercise program
- Try to avoid daytime naps
- Practice total abstinence of caffeine including sources like chocolate (sigh)
- Review all medicines, vitamins and supplements you are taking to make sure none are interfering with sleep
- Use the bedroom for sleeping (and sex) only, and make sure the bedroom and bed are comfortable.
- Learn to appropriately handle emotional stress in your life
- Do not listen to your breathing or the sound of the machine as you are falling asleep. (Some people, including me, actually find listening to their breathing and the sound of the machine to be relaxing.)
- Distract your mind by thinking of a pleasant, relaxing activity that you enjoy.
- If you are awakening at night, do not be too concerned. It is actually a normal part of sleep. (It does become a problem though for people who, when they awaken, become frustrated and have difficulty returning to sleep.)
- Use CPAP software, such as the free OSCAR (or the free SleepyHead), to make sure your therapy is optimized
- If you still don't feel or sleep well, make sure you have regular medical checkups to confirm there are no other medical problems

This is a checklist. Some of the things you already do. Some are easy and can be done right away. Others you can work at over time.

CG

zonker wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:59 am

i still don't bound out of bed with a smile on my lips and a song in my heart.

I think a lot of people expect the cpap machine (and optimal therapy) to make them into something they probably never were in the first place. That elusive "morning person". I know it was greatly disappointing when I realized that it didn't make me into superwoman the first thing in the morning......then I realized that never in my life had I ever been superwoman in the morning.
I was wanting the machine to make me into something I never was in the first place. Pretty impossible goal to meet.

While a few lucky people do get that overnight miracle....the majority of us didn't and instead it took weeks and months of very gradual, and sometimes not realized, improvement before we noticed much of a change.

My very first symptom improvement....no more nocturia and no more morning killer headaches once I had my cpap therapy optimized.
The improvements in mood, energy, general well being....took months to see them. Still not always where I want it to be but then I have other issues as I mentioned above. It is what it is. I try to only expend energy on stuff that I have any chance in hell to fix. I don't expend energy worrying about stuff that there's not much chance in my changing.

Thank you all for the input! It's given me a lot of reassurance. I really appreciate all of your help since the start of my CPAP journey

I guess after your body's been deprived of proper sleep for years it will take time for it to recover. And yes, CPAP isn't going to solve all of our problems - we might be falsely attributing some of our problems to sleep apnea. Still, CPAP has helped me a lot and I can wake up earlier in the day now (instead of in the evening) not feeling like I've been hit by a truck. I understand that it will be a bumpy journey though. Thanks again for all your help.

gadgetmaniah wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:07 pm

after your body's been deprived of proper sleep for years it will take time for it to recover.

I like to tell people this little analogy regarding the "time thing"....
If you broke your arm and got a cast put on it....would you expect it to be all healed up in a week?

Until people sort out mask issues that might be messing with sleep....
you don't even have a cast on your sleep apnea arm to start solid healing until you get the mask issues totally sorted out.
At best...you maybe have a splint on that broken arm....but no cast yet.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:26 pm

zonker wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:59 am

i still don't bound out of bed with a smile on my lips and a song in my heart.

I think a lot of people expect the cpap machine (and optimal therapy) to make them into something they probably never were in the first place.

yup. and i was disappointed to find that i still wasn't a great fan of morning. and to be sure, mornings aren't as bad as they were. but i still ain't springing out of bed. i particularly get annoyed with myself when, since retirement, i make any sort of doctor or dental appointment in the morning. even late aborning. (you'd think i'd learn by now!)

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:26 pm

My very first symptom improvement....no more nocturia

i had assumed that that was just part of getting old. didn't learn of it as a symptom until i got here.

all in all, i wouldn't give up my cpap for anything. makes life a whole hell of a lot easier.

zonker wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:43 pm

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:26 pm

zonker wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:59 am

i still don't bound out of bed with a smile on my lips and a song in my heart.

I think a lot of people expect the cpap machine (and optimal therapy) to make them into something they probably never were in the first place.

yup. and i was disappointed to find that i still wasn't a great fan of morning. and to be sure, mornings aren't as bad as they were. but i still ain't springing out of bed. i particularly get annoyed with myself when, since retirement, i make any sort of doctor or dental appointment in the morning. even late aborning. (you'd think i'd learn by now!)

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:26 pm

My very first symptom improvement....no more nocturia

i had assumed that that was just part of getting old. didn't learn of it as a symptom until i got here.

all in all, i wouldn't give up my cpap for anything. makes life a whole hell of a lot easier.

I wouldn't want to sleep another night without my CPAP either.

As an aside, I've noticed that many of the members in this forum such as yourself are seniors . I still have a long time time until retirement - only (almost) 23 years old right now. It's been a pleasure learning from your experiences with sleep apnea and CPAPs though !

gadgetmaniah wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:58 pm

I wouldn't want to sleep another night without my CPAP either.

As an aside, I've noticed that many of the members in this forum such as yourself are seniors . I still have a long time time until retirement - only (almost) 23 years old right now. It's been a pleasure learning from your experiences with sleep apnea and CPAPs though !

i think we oldies just like to hangout here to tell the young whippersnappers what to do.


sa can strike at any age really. we have someone in now who was looking for info re: cpap and their 2 year old. other than that, it seems like the diagnosis comes out more in seniors.

we who have it are certainly sure that we had it when we were younger. chunkyfrog has said many times she wished she'd been diagnosed at a younger age. i don't think i would've wanted that. my acclimating to cpap was a very rough experience. i can't imagine trying to get used to cpap while still having to get up and get to work!

btw, while we are slightly off topic, i've been meaning to tell you that i really enjoy this thread. it's great to watch the progress you've been making.

zonker wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:04 pm

gadgetmaniah wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:58 pm

I wouldn't want to sleep another night without my CPAP either.

As an aside, I've noticed that many of the members in this forum such as yourself are seniors . I still have a long time time until retirement - only (almost) 23 years old right now. It's been a pleasure learning from your experiences with sleep apnea and CPAPs though !

i think we oldies just like to hangout here to tell the young whippersnappers what to do.


sa can strike at any age really. we have someone in now who was looking for info re: cpap and their 2 year old. other than that, it seems like the diagnosis comes out more in seniors.

we who have it are certainly sure that we had it when we were younger. chunkyfrog has said many times she wished she'd been diagnosed at a younger age. i don't think i would've wanted that. my acclimating to cpap was a very rough experience. i can't imagine trying to get used to cpap while still having to get up and get to work!

btw, while we are slightly off topic, i've been meaning to tell you that i really enjoy this thread. it's great to watch the progress you've been making.

I'm glad you're enjoying the thread! I was afraid that people might be finding this thread to be a bit of an annoyance, haha. I just thought it would be useful to document my CPAP journey, both for myself and perhaps for other newbies as well.

Yeah, I guess sleep apnea can strike at any age. I think for me, as for many others, the symptoms were really debilitating - I didn't think I could go on without doing something about it. But I am quite glad for how things have turned out

gadgetmaniah wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:56 pm

I was afraid that people might be finding this thread to be a bit of an annoyance, haha.

No, it's good that you put everything in one thread. The annoying newbies scatter threads all over the forum.

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:18 pm

gadgetmaniah wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:56 pm

I was afraid that people might be finding this thread to be a bit of an annoyance, haha.

No, it's good that you put everything in one thread. The annoying newbies scatter threads all over the forum.

That's good then.

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:18 pm

gadgetmaniah wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:56 pm

I was afraid that people might be finding this thread to be a bit of an annoyance, haha.

No, it's good that you put everything in one thread. The annoying newbies scatter threads all over the forum.

+1