OT: calling light sleepers, how do you remedy?

Barbee wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:44 pm

My hubby has always been a light sleeper. One of those people who hear the alarm click before it comes on. He also jerks a lot in his sleep. He tried taking tylenol pm but says it makes him too groggy the next day. I read something the other day about drinking a glass of tonic water before bed to help keep you from jerking awake. I will let you know if it works or not.

when i was a working stiff, the same was true for me. plus LOTS of anxiety about just how much time i had before that alarm went off! thank god that i don't work any more and i can leave that anxiety behind me.

yeah, let me know about that tonic water. sounds close to "woo" to me, but who knows?

Rob K wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:59 am

I'm in the same situation. I used to sleep through everything, but not anymore. I set up a real dark cool room and started wearing ear plugs. Blue light filters on all electronics. Melatonin does the same for me, helps you get to sleep but doesn't help keep you asleep. Tried many things and have not figured out an answer other than trying to get as many hours of sleep as possible to make up for the poor quality. Rarely feel completely rested or energetic.

Xpap has helped a ton, but obviously there are other things going on. I still feel like I'm being woken up by the limited number of apnea events I'm still having. The next thing I'm going to try is switching to a Resmed machine from my PR machine. I here the Resmeds are quicker to react to any breathing problems. It would be awesome if that is the case and I maybe wouldn't wake up as many times. I hope you can get a break and figure out something, or several things that will help you get a better quality of sleep.

huh. that's interesting. you seem to have had this light sleeping business sneak up on you. whereas i've had it for my whole life, i do believe. and yeah, i sleep as long as i want to. i'm on the machine from about 11:15 until about 8:15. obviously, not THAT regimented, but you take my meaning.

and i find that i'm not lacking energy during the day. oh, that CAN happen if i have the really awful light sleep the night before. the other day, i had an ahi of 0.34. but it was the worst sleep ever! i'm blaming that night on getting part 2 of the shingrex vaccination that day.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:48 am

It's nice having you here, zonker. I mean that.

aw, shucks! thanks. i'm going to give you short shrift here now, but come back later to respond. as always, you've put a lot into your comment and i want to mull it over for a bit. i'm responding to those i've read and digested.

will be back later.

to pugsy and palerider-

what we have here, is failure to communicate."

and that failure is on my part. i'm not explaining this well at all, judging by both of your responses. not that i wasn't expecting them. we've talked about this in my zonker's crib thread.

i feel that what i'm experiencing is right dead center in the middle of what you guys think i'm experiencing. i do not think this is insomnia of any kind. when i google up insomnia, whether it be sleep maintenance or full blown, mention is made of anxiety. i simply don't have anxiety connected with this. it's why in my poor explanation above, i put worry in quotation marks.

on the other hand, i don't feel this is something that i can merely put down to something everyone experiences. that we all wake up many times during the night and just roll over and forget about it. that seems too pat.

so, i'm going to keep looking to this thread and see what rises up out of it.

Hi Zonker,

I've just completed a 5 week CBT-i therapy and it has helped a lot.

viewtopic/t175067/CBTi--Therapy-for-Insomnia.html

Perhaps a consideration for you.

There is an extended release version of melatonin, which might be worth trying - it doses the melatonin throughout the night.

While anxiety can be a factor in any insomnia it sure isn't the only factor.
I speak from lots of personal experience with sleep maintenance insomnia myself.

Sleep maintenance insomnia is when a person wakes often during the night (more often than normal or more often than they want) and they may or may not have trouble going back to sleep.
The reasons for the wake ups....miles long list and sometimes it's very hard to figure out the culprit.
Ideally we locate the problem and then eliminate the problem but that is easier said than done. Not always easy to figure out why and even when we know why it isn't always easy to eliminate the why.

You can call it "light sleeper" or whatever you want to call it ....but that doesn't change the fact that it is a form of insomnia.
Accept it and move on and quit quibbling over the name....doesn't matter what you call it...you don't like it and you want it gone.

zonker wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:50 am

Cynmatthes wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:13 pm

Zonker I sympathize. I don't know what to recommend but I am very similar. Since I had kids (and my oldest will be 30 in a few weeks) I've rarely fallen into that wonderful deep sleep. I have gotten it a few times which is why I am always chasing it but it rarely happens.

I believe as someone here so eloquently put it, a gnat fart will will wake me up. I look forward to seeing what suggestions you get.

well, so far, i've managed to avoid giving birth! i'm given to understand that you mothers have quite a few unexpected things change in your body after giving birth. but i didn't realize it could affect a woman's sleep.

well you get used to sleeping lightly because you need to hear if the baby wakes up. Then as they get older you have sick kids coming in or a nightmare or whatever. Finally they are grown up and out of the house and you think yay I can sleep but by then you are so used to sleeping lightly that any little thing wakes you up. Heck I woke up the other night when my dog farted in his sleep. its pretty sad that even the dog is getting better sleep. I'm jealous!

zonker wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:01 am

Barbee wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:44 pm

My hubby has always been a light sleeper. One of those people who hear the alarm click before it comes on. He also jerks a lot in his sleep. He tried taking tylenol pm but says it makes him too groggy the next day. I read something the other day about drinking a glass of tonic water before bed to help keep you from jerking awake. I will let you know if it works or not.

when i was a working stiff, the same was true for me. plus LOTS of anxiety about just how much time i had before that alarm went off! thank god that i don't work any more and i can leave that anxiety behind me.

yeah, let me know about that tonic water. sounds close to "woo" to me, but who knows?

Yes totally sounds like woo.
As I read more about it, its supposed to help leg cramps. He does get charley horses some but not that often. He is just a jerky sleeper. His legs will jerk, his arms, sometimes he simply jerks awake for no reason at all. His feet are moving constantly, all night long.
He seems to function fine during the day so I should probably just let him be. Besides, tonic water tastes like crap

For Lent, I have sworn off everything on Granny's list.
No offense to Granny--but while the list works, I still feel like a REBEL.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:48 am

It's nice having you here, zonker. I mean that.

OSA taught us to sleep wrong.

again, thanks for the flowers. and the other thing i quoted here can't be said enough. because i had this my whole life, i've never known the proper way to sleep.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:48 am

The brain can become hypervigilant in keeping an eye/ear out for all the breathing events it assumes it is just missing somehow. That can go on for years for some people, even though their sleep-breathing war is over and they were discharged from it with honors.

i like the cut of your jib and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. seriously, i like the way you put things. i've said myself to newbies that it takes time for this therapy to work. that eventually, they will get used to the mask and start seeing good numbers. never thought to apply that to myself regarding the light sleeping.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:48 am

You have an opportunity to experiment with positive approaches to sleep, so file at under "wonderful opportunity" to keep that "worry" from becoming counterproductive and toxic. Sorry to get all touchy-feely about it, but it is what it is.

indeed. it doesn't lessen the impact of what you say, it just means i'll be reflecting on it awhile before i can see if i incorporate it into my thinking.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:48 am

If you make a full list of tweaks you've tried, some people here may be able to point out other tweaks that worked for them.
<snip>

and a big snip there. i'm doing these things and prolly more, but it's ingrained as routine by now and i'm not certain i can dredge them up as separate things, if that makes sense. one thing you point out that i may try to adjust a bit. the sun seems to come up at a very rude time each morning here in flagstaff. (i must talk to the city council about that.) so to avoid that blast and as i'm usually awake by then(oh, how ironic!) i slip my mask on then. perhaps i can adjust that back to when i go to bed. it's not what i consider overly bright in here, but who knows what my lizard brain thinks of it?

oh! and i seem to be cursed with a brain that can tell what time it is, within 10-15 minutes, without a clock.
.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:48 am

But I repeat my point, if you don't mind, that it is best to do all this, not as fighting a big scary beast that is out to kill you, but as simple fun experimentation for making something that is already very good just a little bit better for you. In my experiences hearing and reading what others say about it, that seems to be the mind set that makes all the difference leading to improvements for them.

I consider this thread more on-topic than most of the other on-topic topics, myself.

quite true about the mindset. one just has to look at the last dozen new users who have come to this forum, this year. they have stuck with it and improved their lot. and now they are busy getting involved in the newer new users coming in behind them.

i have, over the years, calmed down considerably regarding my sleep. and i feel i'm at the point in my journey where i can think about trying new things without freaking out about having them work RIGHT NOW!!

that's an improvement i didn't think i would reach.

Cynmatthes wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:44 am

Interesting. I've worn long arm warmers to bed in winter time for years. I never even thought about it being part of my sleep routine.

yeah, i've done the fluffy socks thing as my feet have had a tendency to chill since i reached my late 50's. but my arms seem to stay plenty warm without warmers.

Zonker, What is your passion?

IF... you are able to identify that, you then may be able to organize your thoughts and actions to help you reach your goals.

Figure out your goal, then jot down about 10 things that you think are obstacles to reaching that goal. Keeping Pareto's principle in mind, pick the top 2 with the expectation that you may be able to achieve 80% of the results you are looking for. Once you have tasted success you can deal with the other things to get closer to your goal.

While everyone is an individual, there seem to be several common denominators that work for many. Usually you have to tweak them to fit, but they get you started on your way. Community helps expose you to ideas you may not have thought of before.

My goal for my sleep is to wake up restored, refreshed, and free from pain. What is your goal?

There are at least 3 aspects to address when trying to accomplish a goal.

I usually start with an analytical approach. Is the chemistry within my body balanced? What, if anything, can I do to bring things back into balance? Is there any evidence suggesting that balanced body chemistry results in improved sleep. There are many things you can analyze and tests you can have done to figure out what is going on. If you have unlimited funds, there is a lot you can do, including importing an EEG machine to monitor your brain activity every night. Most of us fall a little short of unlimited funds so we end up trying to come up with a reasonable substitute that has some hope of being accurate.

Another aspect is the physical approach. This is where you take what you have learned and apply it. If you read that elevating the head of your bed improves sleep that is something to ponder. However, if you take the time to put blocks under your bed and actually try it, you can then evaluate if it improves your sleep or not. If it works, great. If it doesn't you cross that off of your list and move on. If you read that vitamin D defeciency results in poor sleep, that is also something to ponder. If you take action and get your D levels tested, you now have a data point that will give you direction.
Another aspect is the emotional approach. Words on paper stating a goal that you have are simply words, until you visualize the goal being accomplished. This attaches emotion to your idea and that motivates you to push forward.

I am sure there are other approaches but this is what works for me. Your job is to find what works for you. You have started this journey by asking a question. I hope you are able to find a solution that fits you and then find a way to apply it.

katestyles wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:07 pm

There is an extended release version of melatonin, which might be worth trying - it doses the melatonin throughout the night.

thanks for mentioning that. by coincidence, just starting using that two weeks ago. i had thought that it being "time release", it would shoot out a burst every so often and it would just put me back to sleep, right? i mean, that's the affect melatonin has on me if i take it before bed time.

alas, that doesn't seem to be the case. i'll finish off the bottle; maybe it takes time? but i'm not too hopeful about it.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:11 pm

You can call it "light sleeper" or whatever you want to call it ....but that doesn't change the fact that it is a form of insomnia.
Accept it and move on and quit quibbling over the name....doesn't matter what you call it...you don't like it and you want it gone.