New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:20 am

I don't know what you did with that tip from Granny but it shouldn't be looking like that.
When you click on the actual event you end up zooming way in on it so you can count the breaths in seconds.
Whatever you did ended up zooming way out instead of way in.

Should look like this one of mine from the other day....btw....all arousal breathing before the flagged OA....so IMHO not a real OA.

swjzoomedin.JPG

I have no idea if the increase in the expiration graph means anything or not. Expiration is below the 0.0 line and if you take in a bit more air during inhale then it stands to reason you might exhale a bit more air. So in my mind...normal way things happen.

Number in parenthesis is a close approximation to event duration in seconds on a Respironics machine.
On a ResMed machine it's duration in seconds.
Not for your machine though because Respironics machines don't actually document event duration like ResMed machines do.
All flagged events have to be at least 10 seconds duration to earn a flag...so obviously you can't be having a 9 second flagged event.
It's a close approximation though and close enough for government work as they say. Most likely if you zoom way in and count the seconds then it barely made the 10 second mark for duration.
Respironics uses some sort of marking system that we could never figure out exactly how it worked when Mark was working with SleepyHead. That's where the 9 comes in but you might see 6 or 7 or 8 in parentheses...all it usually means is barely 10 seconds duration. Now if you see a 40 in parentheses...and you counted the seconds...probably somewhere between 37 and 43 duration...close enough to know it was fairly long in duration.

Dan_McD · Post by **Dan_McD** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:51 am

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:18 am

Dan_McD wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:08 am
In the event graph and in the event bar, what does the number in parenthesis mean? like (9).
That's the length of the event in seconds.

Are you sure that last shot you posted came from the graph zoomed in by clicking within the Events tab??? The time span of the line charts is about 17 minutes.

When mine is zoomed in using that method, the time span is about four minutes - easier to see how the breath flow was.

Yep, I re-did it and it came out the same. Here is the same chart, but I clicked on the graph itself twice.
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Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:56 am

clicking on the graph twice or more from the original clicking on the timed event under the events tab changes the level of zooming in or out. Click on the graph enough times and you won't be zoomed in at all but it takes a lot of clicks.

The idea is to click once on the timed event so it is highlighted and then on the right side graph you should be zoomed in at the level I showed on mine. I think you might be doing too many clicks.

Dan_McD · Post by **Dan_McD** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:59 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:20 am

I have no idea if the increase in the expiration graph means anything or not. Expiration is below the 0.0 line and if you take in a bit more air during inhale then it stands to reason you might exhale a bit more air. So in my mind...normal way things happen.

It's usually a given that COPD persons have problems exhaling. That is why I remarked. I really don't know.

Dan_McD · Post by **Dan_McD** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:04 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:56 am
clicking on the graph twice or more from the original clicking on the timed event under the events tab changes the level of zooming in or out. Click on the graph enough times and you won't be zoomed in at all but it takes a lot of clicks.

The idea is to click once on the timed event so it is highlighted and then on the right side graph you should be zoomed in at the level I showed on mine. I think you might be doing too many clicks.

I think you might have misunderstood me. On the 'Granny' tip graph I only clicked on the event OA time once and never clicked on the graph. I even re-did it on my laptop just to see and it came out the same as the first 'Granny' tip one. about 27 minutes looks like to me.

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:07 am

Since you have COPD complicating things then I would be adding that question to your next chat with your doctor.
Most of us here don't have that complication and these machines weren't ever really designed for that level of detail in data anyway.
Now those other high end machines which are designed to help with those type of complicating factors and their data points offered....more likely to maybe help the doctor decide on best course of action but the regular cpap/apap machines not so much.
The machine gathers some of that data but we don't know to what end it actually might mean anything significant.

As for the 27 minute one click....you are the exception...look at your image and my image...most of us see it like I do.
I have no idea why you get such a big chunk of time with the one click. It's not normally what Granny's tip ends up showing us.

Dan_McD · Post by **Dan_McD** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:25 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:07 am
Since you have COPD complicating things then I would be adding that question to your next chat with your doctor.
Most of us here don't have that complication and these machines weren't ever really designed for that level of detail in data anyway.

This is why I am having the pulmonary study done. My first sleep study doctor is a neurologist and she and I have a few problems communicating. I've been told, a pulmonologist better understands the sleep study data. At least I'm going to find out. I'm having the pulmonary test done in a lab at Phelps Hospital in Rolla.

Edit: That large string of time may be a bug in my software.....?

Dan_McD · Post by **Dan_McD** » Fri May 10, 2019 8:41 am

What the hell is this? I never have obstructions. Maybe a hypopnea once in awhile, but not this. ALSO: about 3 out of the last 7 or 8 mornings I get up with a big wad of saliva in my mouth and the back of my throat. I dont/cant measure it, but it looks like a couple of tablespoons when I unload it in the loo. Any ideas on this? It seems like you can be going along pretty good on this apnea and then BOOM! it all goes in the dumper.
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Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Fri May 10, 2019 8:45 am

IMHO....not real asleep events.
Instead awake/semi awake/arousal breathing flagged by mistake.
I have seen stuff like this myself. Nothing you can do about it except maybe try to fix whatever caused you to wake up in the first place.
Commonly called SWJ or sleep/wake/junk....to be ignored.

Dan_McD · Post by **Dan_McD** » Fri May 10, 2019 8:47 pm

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Fri May 10, 2019 8:45 am
IMHO....not real asleep events.
Instead awake/semi awake/arousal breathing flagged by mistake.
I have seen stuff like this myself. Nothing you can do about it except maybe try to fix whatever caused you to wake up in the first place.
Commonly called SWJ or sleep/wake/junk....to be ignored.

*
Thanks Pugsy. I'm wondering if my arousal's are periodic limb movement. I see arousal's in OSCAR and no other events happening at the same time. Before cpap, my wife said my legs jumped a lot. Now she remarks about it occasionally, but it still happens. I had a lung (Pulmonary) function test yesterday and have an appointment to see a pulmonologist Tuesday. As noted earlier I have been diagnosed COPD. Maybe after that, depending, I can work on the PLM (nocturnal). What about all this saliva? Anyone else experience this? I checked my hose and I dont have rainout.

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Sat May 11, 2019 3:23 am

Dan_McD wrote: ↑
Fri May 10, 2019 8:47 pm
...I'm wondering if my arousal's are periodic limb movement. I see arousal's in OSCAR and no other events happening at the same time. Before cpap, my wife said my legs jumped a lot. Now she remarks about it occasionally, but it still happens. I had a lung (Pulmonary) function test yesterday and have an appointment to see a pulmonologist Tuesday. As noted earlier I have been diagnosed COPD. Maybe after that, depending, I can work on the PLM (nocturnal). What about all this saliva? Anyone else experience this? I checked my hose and I dont have rainout.

Not sure that my experience will relate to yours, just throwing things out for your consideration. When I used too much humidity it turned my sinuses into a snot factory to the degree it interfered with my treatment with all the drainage and congestion. Even at a more tolerable humidity setting, I usually take an allergy pill before bed as a preventative. Have you experimented to see if maybe your humidity setting is not agreeing with your sinuses?

You could video your feet and legs while sleeping to get an idea how active your legs are. It won't be able to tell you how many movements cause official arousal but could show you if any movements look like periodic limb movements. I am not at all familiar with videoing, but I do know you won't want a setup that only comes on with movement. A start-and-stop video will not tell you the periodocity of the movements. Periodic limb movements will be rhythmic. As long as you are sound asleep their timing will be nearly evenly spaced. Any arousal or stirring and the rhythm will likely be interrupted until well asleep again. Periodic limb movements are also stereotypical - a repetition of a similar looking movement. That movement can be anything from a flexing of the big toe, or the foot, or even the leg. Those with whole leg involvement sometimes describe a bicycling motion. In the event you do see significant activity that meets the above description, do some research about choices going forward before making a decision. People move during the night for lots of reasons. If you see movements that are random in timing and appearance yet still excessive, you can discuss with your doctor if you should investigate further. Oh, do consider if you are on any meds known to contribute to restless legs and/or PLMD. Good luck with things.

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Sat May 11, 2019 8:13 am

Dan_McD wrote: ↑
Fri May 10, 2019 8:47 pm
What about all this saliva?

Hang onto it. It beats the hell out of dry mouth.

Dan_McD · Post by **Dan_McD** » Sat May 11, 2019 8:19 am

kteague wrote: ↑
Sat May 11, 2019 3:23 am

Dan_McD wrote: ↑
Fri May 10, 2019 8:47 pm
...I'm wondering if my arousal's are periodic limb movement. I see arousal's in OSCAR and no other events happening at the same time. Before cpap, my wife said my legs jumped a lot. Now she remarks about it occasionally, but it still happens. I had a lung (Pulmonary) function test yesterday and have an appointment to see a pulmonologist Tuesday. As noted earlier I have been diagnosed COPD. Maybe after that, depending, I can work on the PLM (nocturnal). What about all this saliva? Anyone else experience this? I checked my hose and I dont have rainout.
Not sure that my experience will relate to yours, just throwing things out for your consideration. When I used too much humidity it turned my sinuses into a snot factory to the degree it interfered with my treatment with all the drainage and congestion. Even at a more tolerable humidity setting, I usually take an allergy pill before bed as a preventative. Have you experimented to see if maybe your humidity setting is not agreeing with your sinuses?

You could video your feet and legs while sleeping to get an idea how active your legs are. It won't be able to tell you how many movements cause official arousal but could show you if any movements look like periodic limb movements. I am not at all familiar with videoing, but I do know you won't want a setup that only comes on with movement. A start-and-stop video will not tell you the periodocity of the movements. Periodic limb movements will be rhythmic. As long as you are sound asleep their timing will be nearly evenly spaced. Any arousal or stirring and the rhythm will likely be interrupted until well asleep again. Periodic limb movements are also stereotypical - a repetition of a similar looking movement. That movement can be anything from a flexing of the big toe, or the foot, or even the leg. Those with whole leg involvement sometimes describe a bicycling motion. In the event you do see significant activity that meets the above description, do some research about choices going forward before making a decision. People move during the night for lots of reasons. If you see movements that are random in timing and appearance yet still excessive, you can discuss with your doctor if you should investigate further. Oh, do consider if you are on any meds known to contribute to restless legs and/or PLMD. Good luck with things.

Hi K, I was thinking of you when I wrote my last post and was hoping you would chime in. On the "Humidity", You might be on to something. I dont like the warm air and normaly use the 3 setting. A couple of days ago I turned it down to '2' and just recalling, the saliva accumulation doesnt seem to be as bad. We have had a lot of rain lately. I think I am going to try '1' and see if it gets better yet.

Can you detect arousals in your charts or software from the PLMN? I like your idea of the video taping. I saw yours when we first talked about this back 4 or 5 months ago. I think I will try the video idea. Years ago I had restless legs frequently but not in recent years. My with thinks the leg movement has lessened since I have been on cpap. She has mentioned, before cpap, my whole body would jump up off the mattress and my legs and arms were constantly moving. I have a lot of twisting and turning in my sleep. I have some learning to do on reading the arousals in OSCAR, but it looks like there may be a correlation of movement and mask leaks. Back to the PLM, I am beginning to think that the PLM and the COPD are more related to my restless sleep than the apneas and hypopneas. Not that the cpap hasnt helped, but I think there are other things going on too. Thanks for chipping in. I think I will dust off my Sony and tripod and do some taping.

Dan_McD · Post by **Dan_McD** » Sat May 11, 2019 8:27 am

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑
Sat May 11, 2019 8:13 am

Dan_McD wrote: ↑
Fri May 10, 2019 8:47 pm
What about all this saliva?
Hang onto it. It beats the hell out of dry mouth.

Appreciate the thought. Years ago, maybe 25 years, I was on an old anti-depressant (Nortriptiline) and had terrible dry mouth. On the saliva or what ever it is. One morning Granny, I got up and my mouth was so full of stuff I was hacking and sputtering and gagging, I thought I was going to heave. I don't like it at all.

Dan_McD · Post by **Dan_McD** » Sat May 11, 2019 8:33 am

OT: BTW: I'm not getting flagged in my email when other posters comment on the threads I'm active in. I thought I checked that "ON" when I set up my profile. Any ideas?

New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added

Re: New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added

Re: New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added

Re: New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added

Re: New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added

Re: New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added

Re: New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added

Re: New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added

UN-USUAL TO HAVE OBSTRUCTIONS

Re: New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added

Re: New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added

Re: New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added

Re: New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added

Re: New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added

Re: New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added

Re: New user.... trying to solve tiredness - graph added