Newbie Self Diagnosis - In Denial - AHI Question

marktheshark · Post by **marktheshark** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:22 am

Hello all,

Another newbie here!

I have tons of questions, but I will focus on one, to begin with.

I won't bore you with my long list of symptoms lol, as I am sure I have major sleep issues.

I have a friend who works for a durable medical company and lent me a cpap machine to try and self-diagnose, ResMed 10 I believe.

So here is my first question to help me stop living in denial.

I have only tried successfully a couple nights, but I show an AHI of 3.0 per hour sleeping 7.5 hours, which totals 22.5 apneas for the night. Pressure looks like it averaged 7.3.

I have the ramp set at the minimum of 4.0 for 20 minutes then the auto feature kicks on, I don't have a minimum number set.

My question is, with an AHI of 3.0, does that give me an indicator that a truly AM having some type of apneas?

I guess I look at the machine and think, "oh that's probably too low and everyone has those, or the machine must not be that accurate and there is an error."

I can tell you that I have a long history of poor sleep, cannot sleep on my back, and have been known to snore on and off over the years.

I am looking for clues to continue because as anyone can imagine, id like to think I don't have this problem for the trouble of the machine but I desperately need help, I feel like the walking dead and all medical test are normal, thankfully!

So with the machine ON, does an AHI of 3.0 per hour tell me I have this problem? I understand there are a lot of variables, just looking for a clue I guess.

PS I am a 39-year male, not overweight at all, don't smoke, no medications or health conditions, thankfully.

Thanks for any input.

Mark

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:42 am

The Fault in your thinking is, using the machine the numbers are TREATED NUMBERS, not untreated numbers. AHI of 3 per hour is a good start but the goal is none or in the least under 2 per hour.

Denial of Sleep Apnea will bring a poorer quality of life and a shorter one. In the end you only make your life harder. Sounds like your use of the machine was better than many get, with data and help it can probably be set to do even better. Jim Good Start!

marktheshark · Post by **marktheshark** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:45 am

Thanks for the response!

I guess I was just wondering how reliable the machine is at calculating AHI, sounds like its pretty accurate then?

I guess I'm looking for people to say, "yes, you have some sleep apnea issues!"

I have had this machine for 10 months and haven't really given it a shot, I put it away, then take it out, put it away then take it out.

I am just ready to commit to something.

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:52 am

You can tell by using the program called Sleepyhead, to show you the data the machine collects, posting the data, will allow others to suggest changes to your machine setup to make it work better. Jim

See links under my post.

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:32 am

marktheshark wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:22 am
Pressure looks like it averaged 7.3.

Set the pressure to CPAP Mode, pressure 4.0 (lowest pressure). Check if your AHI goes up. Download Sleepyhead and post a chart in this thread. Use the instructions for formatting the chart - (thread at top of index page).

marktheshark wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:22 am
I am a 39-year male, not overweight at all, don't smoke, no medications or health conditions, thankfully.

None of that rules out the possibility of sleep apnea. Plenty of slim people with sleep apnea, and plenty of young people. Unfortunately, most young people don't get diagnosed until they are older and have done much damage to their body and brain. Be glad you are getting started now.

Janknitz · Post by **Janknitz** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:02 pm

I think you can still play the denial game until you actually get a test. There are home tests--some of them are very unobtrusive--you wear a device on your wrist that looks like an overgrown watch and two finger probes. Why not look into that? Then you will know and stop playing games with your life.

marktheshark · Post by **marktheshark** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:09 pm

Thanks for your response.

I was looking into the home test and then found out I could just test myself with a machine.

The reason I'm trying the self diagnosis is because I know there is no way I could do an overnight test. I'm so exhausted and battling anxiety on top of it. I'm totally commited to CPAP if I need it, guess I was looking for people to clarify what I was wondering to help me feel convinced that my problems are coming from a sleep disorder.

Janknitz · Post by **Janknitz** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:32 pm

Well, commitment is just a DECISION you make that you will use it EVERY night, EVERY time you sleep. Seems like you are worth that commitment to yourself.

Set yourself a goal that is long enough to give it an honest try--90 days. Check the days off on a calendar. See how you feel. Within that time you'll know if it's helping making you feel better. It's hard to get used to, so a month is probably not long enough, but 90 days is reasonable. Take every day one day at a time.

Use this forum to help you find optimal settings, advise you about masks, sleeping positions, etc.

marktheshark · Post by **marktheshark** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:38 pm

Have you been talking to my wife lol?

She's been telling me the same thing but I keep thinking I have all these other diseases!

Thank you!

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:45 pm

marktheshark wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:22 am
I show an AHI of 3.0 per hour sleeping 7.5 hours, which totals 22.5 apneas for the night.

You're having that many events.... while being treated.. it's worse without treatment.

Post some charts, let's get your ahi lower, and see if you don't start feeling better... (And stop having to get up and pee so often at night.)

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:58 pm

Welcome to the forum.

marktheshark wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:38 pm
Have you been talking to my wife lol?

Sure....I thought she already told you that little tidbit.

Here's the deal with trying to diagnose with the machine....it comes with some limits and the main one is that even at the lowest pressure of 4 cm (some machines will go down to 3) there is therapy value even at the lowest of pressures. Meaning that for some people a low pressure of 4 will/can prevent the airway from collapsing so the fact that someone doesn't have a very high AHI even at 4 cm doesn't necessarily mean that there is no OSA going on.
Severity of apnea has absolutely nothing to do with the pressures that might be required to hold the airway open. I know people with a technically very mild AHI (like diagnosis of 12 per hour) who need 18 cm pressure to hold the airway open and I know people with a relatively severe AHI diagnosis (like 50 per hour) who can get by with 5 cm pressure.
The fact that your pressure needs may not be all that high doesn't have any bearing on the severity or even the diagnosis.

marktheshark wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:22 am
Pressure looks like it averaged 7.3.

Where are you getting the 7.3 pressure number? Off the machine's LCD screen? If so, that's not an average pressure but instead it is what we call a 95% pressure and all a 95% pressure is...is a pressure where you were at OR BELOW for 95% of the time.
You need to use available software to get real averages in the sense that I assume you are thinking.

Now you might get a clearer answer if you do what ChicagoGranny says and just use 4 cm pressure all night and don't let it vary/increase at all and see what the AHI is at the minimum of 4 cm. You also might not get a clear cut answer to your question "do I really have OSA". For all we know you might be one of those people who have severe OSA and 4 cm pressure will fix it.
If you REALLY want to know for sure then you need at least a home sleep study but even those come with some limitations.

Get SleepyHead and post a couple typical nights detailed reports....see the sticky at the top of the topics section "newbies please read"...it has links for how to get and use SH and how to post images so we can see what you see.
Sometimes looking at the pressure graph and the events that get flagged we can come up with some educated guesses as to whether OSA is going on or not.

Or listen to your wife

and give things some time and see how you feel but it does take some time to notice marked improvement unless you happen to be in a real small minority that has the overnight miracle.

marktheshark · Post by **marktheshark** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:08 pm

palerider wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:45 pm

marktheshark wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:22 am
I show an AHI of 3.0 per hour sleeping 7.5 hours, which totals 22.5 apneas for the night.
You're having that many events.... while being treated.. it's worse without treatment.

Post some charts, let's get your ahi lower, and see if you don't start feeling better... (And stop having to get up and pee so often at night.)

haha you called it on the bathroom trips!

marktheshark · Post by **marktheshark** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:11 pm

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:58 pm
Welcome to the forum.

marktheshark wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:38 pm
Have you been talking to my wife lol?
Sure....I thought she already told you that little tidbit.

Here's the deal with trying to diagnose with the machine....it comes with some limits and the main one is that even at the lowest pressure of 4 cm (some machines will go down to 3) there is therapy value even at the lowest of pressures. Meaning that for some people a low pressure of 4 will/can prevent the airway from collapsing so the fact that someone doesn't have a very high AHI even at 4 cm doesn't necessarily mean that there is no OSA going on.
Severity of apnea has absolutely nothing to do with the pressures that might be required to hold the airway open. I know people with a technically very mild AHI (like diagnosis of 12 per hour) who need 18 cm pressure to hold the airway open and I know people with a relatively severe AHI diagnosis (like 50 per hour) who can get by with 5 cm pressure.
The fact that your pressure needs may not be all that high doesn't have any bearing on the severity or even the diagnosis.

marktheshark wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:22 am
Pressure looks like it averaged 7.3.
Where are you getting the 7.3 pressure number? Off the machine's LCD screen? If so, that's not an average pressure but instead it is what we call a 95% pressure and all a 95% pressure is...is a pressure where you were at OR BELOW for 95% of the time.
You need to use available software to get real averages in the sense that I assume you are thinking.

Now you might get a clearer answer if you do what ChicagoGranny says and just use 4 cm pressure all night and don't let it vary/increase at all and see what the AHI is at the minimum of 4 cm. You also might not get a clear cut answer to your question "do I really have OSA". For all we know you might be one of those people who have severe OSA and 4 cm pressure will fix it.
If you REALLY want to know for sure then you need at least a home sleep study but even those come with some limitations.

Get SleepyHead and post a couple typical nights detailed reports....see the sticky at the top of the topics section "newbies please read"...it has links for how to get and use SH and how to post images so we can see what you see.
Sometimes looking at the pressure graph and the events that get flagged we can come up with some educated guesses as to whether OSA is going on or not.

Or listen to your wife and give things some time and see how you feel but it does take some time to notice marked improvement unless you happen to be in a real small minority that has the overnight miracle.

Thank you so much! I have this funny feeling that I could do better at a lower setting for some odd reason, so what you are saying makes perfect sense!

That's why I keep talking myself out of this, I don't think im gasping, although id say short of breath at times, and my pressure doesn't seem that high yet I read people saying they need to be at 10-12 which feels like it would blow my head off. So then I think well, I don't have sleep apnea because the machine isn't raising the pressure very high. But my wife tells me I lay there and stop breathing for a second, then move around and start again.

I really appreciate everyone's input, I think in so many ways that's what I needed, encouragement and a reminder that this thing isn't black and white!

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:51 pm

marktheshark wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:08 pm

palerider wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:45 pm

marktheshark wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:22 am
I show an AHI of 3.0 per hour sleeping 7.5 hours, which totals 22.5 apneas for the night.
You're having that many events.... while being treated.. it's worse without treatment.

Post some charts, let's get your ahi lower, and see if you don't start feeling better... (And stop having to get up and pee so often at night.)
haha you called it on the bathroom trips!

It's a common side effect of obstructive sleep apnea.

Quit with the denial BS, and start getting better.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:57 pm

marktheshark wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:11 pm
I read people saying they need to be at 10-12 which feels like it would blow my head off.

Yet, it won't even inflate a balloon. Stick a straw 4 inches into a glass of water, blow bubbles... That 4 inches is 10 cm/h2o... That pressure you're afraid of.

marktheshark wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:11 pm
so then I think well, I don't have sleep apnea because the machine isn't raising the pressure very high. But my wife tells me I lay there and stop breathing for a second, then move around and start again.

Your wife needs to slap you upside the head.

Newbie Self Diagnosis - In Denial - AHI Question

Newbie Self Diagnosis - In Denial - AHI Question

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