late night apneas and events in rem stage

ChicagoGranny wrote:

jt1 wrote:i'll turn it up to 12 tonight. should i go higher?

Slow down. Let's see how 12 works tonight. If no unwanted side effects arise, let's leave it at 12 for a few nights before considering any more moves.

How are you feeling during the day?

I agree, and inquire.

when you start getting close (and you're quite close to 'very good', if not already there, you want to go slow, and give things time to settle, never fine tune based on one nights data... you can change NOTHING and still have days varying up and down, just because the human body is a wet squishy bag of water and goo, and nothing precise and calculated in there at all.

ChicagoGranny wrote:

palerider wrote:alternatively, you could zip up your sd card and upload it to dropbox, and then share the download link, then people could download the data, zoom waaaaay in, and look at the actual breath traces

Meh.

*whispers* mainly I wanted to be able to point to something ... in the event Den's dead horse of "pressure increases disturb sleep" appeared to be wrong, at least in this case

I respect Den and a lot of the advice he gives... but... DAMN...

palerider wrote:

jt1 wrote:sorry!! am i missing something in sleepyhead, you listed flow twice? i only see a flow limit.

oops, sorry.. typing too fast...

events
flow
pressure
leak
flow limitaitons
snore
just those six graphs, nothing else unless requested. those six take care of what people need to offer advice 99% of the time.

alternatively, you could zip up your sd card and upload it to dropbox, and then share the download link, then people could download the data, zoom waaaaay in, and look at the actual breath traces, and see where, or even if, your sleep is being disturbed... and possibly by what

the only graph i see in sleepyhead is flow limitations. what is the other flow?

palerider wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:

Not Fade wrote: If there is a naysayer in this thread, it's you. A naysayer about the wonderful APAP.

If you hadn't noticed in my profile......I own FOUR of them. And, the "wonderful" thing about them is that they can be set to CPAP (single pressure) mode......which is what works best for me......and MANY others on the forum.

thus furthering his point.

you own four several generation old machines, and the only thing you like about the apap setting is that you can turn it off.

I've witnessed all of the problems with the generations starting with the M Series. I'll be damned if I'm going to waste my money trying to keep up with the different technology when I don't need it. The Legacy machines were the best that Respironics made. They lasted for many years and were the "chassis" they used for most of their sophisticated Bi-PAPs, ASV and even the ones used in the sleep labs......the OmniLab Advanced......until just a couple of years ago.


Den

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jt1 wrote:the only graph i see in sleepyhead is flow limitations. what is the other flow?

there should be one that says "flow rate", check the selector in the lower right corner and make sure it's not turned off.

it's a trace of the actual breathing flow, where you can actually *see* what flow limitations do to your air intake.

jt1 wrote:the only graph i see in sleepyhead is flow limitations. what is the other flow?

Flow rate....is the breathing flow graph and normally immediately under the events graph unless you have turned it off or moved it.
Go to the lower right corner of the daily detailed page where it says "Event Flag"...click on the little arrow to expand the menu...look for Flow Rate and see if it has a green bar or red bar next to it.
Red turns it off...clicking on the colors will alternate turn off or on. If it is red it isn't showing up in the graphs.

ok!! yep it was turned off! here it is again!!

Wulfman... wrote:I've witnessed all of the problems with the generations starting with the M Series. I'll be damned if I'm going to waste my money trying to keep up with the different technology when I don't need it. The Legacy machines were the best that Respironics made. They lasted for many years and were the "chassis" they used for most of their sophisticated Bi-PAPs, ASV and even the ones used in the sleep labs......the OmniLab Advanced......until just a couple of years ago.

translated: "I don't know nothin about it, and I don't want to know nothin about it, YOU KIDS, GET OFF MY LAWN!"

now, I certainly wouldn't say that the changes from your machines to the modern, computer controlled machines are as dramatic as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMK1WZjP7g but they ARE considerably better at what they do...

though you have NO KNOWLEDGE of this, because you refuse to even consider the possibility that there may be something better than your "perfect" machines.

to be fair to new people, who you choose to try to convert to your way of thinking, you NEED to preface your advice with a disclaimer. "I've never USED a modern machine, I've never even TRIED one, I refuse to, but I *THINK* ...."

jt1 wrote:ok!! yep it was turned off! here it is again!!

now, THAT is a good lookin chart

(I made it small by displaying it as a 'large thumbnail', (you can do that by putting a lower case 'ell' just before the .png in the url.))

jt1 wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:Did you ever actually TRY straight pressure as you indicated you might?

And, I STRONGLY disagree with the nay-sayers who think that you would need a very high (straight) pressure.


Den

.

no, actually i haven't. i did though try 11.0 min with a max of 13 for a few days. ahi was around 2

I believe 90 % of those on this board would be thrilled to have as low an ahi as you are getting. You will drive yourself nuts trying to achieve zero
I personally have been on CPAP for 8 years and I have only been below 1.0 about 6 times in that period.

For the record.........
I waited 40 minutes before replying to this thread. But, as soon as I did, you all felt the need to attack ME.
And, I didn't say anything in my first post about the pressures disturbing his sleep.
He was asking about adjustments regarding (possible) REM events and I just didn't see any need for the pressures to be going that high if they didn't need to. His (minimal) "events" didn't seem to warrant the unnecessary pressures his machine was putting out.
I suspected he hadn't tried straight pressure and I was curious as to what his reports would look like if he had.

AGAIN.........I have NO problems with people using ranges of pressures IF they understand what does or can happen as a result. The main reason I bring up using straight pressures is because I see so many new (and some old timers who got new APAPs) complain about their therapy not feeling like they're being adequately treated.
It's REALLY that simple. I just want to help the users to be able to figure out and understand some of the differences in the settings.

If you're having "problems" with your therapy, don't keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
That's also why using software to monitor one's therapy (especially with APAPs) is so important.


Den

.

palerider wrote:

ChicagoGranny wrote:

palerider wrote:alternatively, you could zip up your sd card and upload it to dropbox, and then share the download link, then people could download the data, zoom waaaaay in, and look at the actual breath traces

Meh.

*whispers* mainly I wanted to be able to point to something ... in the event Den's dead horse of "pressure increases disturb sleep" appeared to be wrong, at least in this case

I respect Den and a lot of the advice he gives... but... DAMN...

Wulfman... wrote:

jt1 wrote:just curious if there is adjustments to be made for events happening in the rem stage? my ahi in my study was 22 but in the rem stage i was having 88 a hour. most of my events seem to be happening in the last few hrs of sleep or every few hours. i guess thats in my rem stage. my ahi is under 2 but last week was steadily under .50 and a few 0.0's with a smiley face in sleepyhead!! i can definitely feel the difference,under .50 i feel fantastic, under 2 pretty good. i am only a month or so into therapy.

Yeah. Same advice I gave you in this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=109674&p=1047685#p1047685

Your breathing changes in the deeper or REM stages of sleep (or in different positions.
You may have more Flow Limitations.......which are a trigger for the APAP to increase pressures.


Den

.

.

palerider wrote:

jt1 wrote:ok!! yep it was turned off! here it is again!!

now, THAT is a good lookin chart

(I made it small by displaying it as a 'large thumbnail', (you can do that by putting a lower case 'ell' just before the .png in the url.))

I like his better. I can't enlarge yours and you got to remember our eyes.

palerider wrote:

jt1 wrote:ok!! yep it was turned off! here it is again!!

now, THAT is a good lookin chart

(I made it small by displaying it as a 'large thumbnail', (you can do that by putting a lower case 'ell' just before the .png in the url.))

ok cool! i'll remember that trick. how's the data look? so im pretty close to dialed in?

OkyDoky wrote:

palerider wrote:

jt1 wrote:ok!! yep it was turned off! here it is again!!

now, THAT is a good lookin chart

I like his better. I can't enlarge yours and you got to remember our eyes.

you *CAN* enlarge mine, just remove the "l" (lower case L) before the .png.

change
i.imgur.com/mh2dkPPl.png
to
i.imgur.com/mh2dkPP.png

that's the only difference in a full size image and a large thumbnail on imgur.

you can also have small thumbnail:


huge thumbnail


small square


big square


all from the same image.

jt1 wrote:ok cool! i'll remember that trick. how's the data look? so im pretty close to dialed in?

yes, I'd do what Granny suggested and bump the min pressure by one, and give it a few days...

most important thing is how you feel, not the exact numbers... which are already good.