Goodbye Resmed. Prices double 9/4/06

Rastaman wrote:While I'd like to blame The American Medical Association, lobbyists and the medical community . . .

I'm not sure I understand your logic, Rastaman. I think your first statement was much more on target than your ending statement.

I, for one, believe that blame for most of the problems you've referred to indeed falls directly at the AMA's doorstep. I've seen the AMA in action, and their tactics are hardball anti-competitive. The AMA is, first and foremost, a union and as many here have bluntly pointed out, somehow the physicians always end up with large sums of money even when they do things unsatisfactorily. The only thing I know of that stops it is when they get slapped with a massive malpractice judgement.

Just try to find ratings for physicians in your area - Good luck. I noticed in WSJ last week that a few states, including New York, managed to rate one specific surgical specialty, open-heart surgery, based on patient survival, I believe, but the AMA is fighting that hard as well, despite evidence that such ratings actually improve the quality of the surgeons.

Are others to blame? You bet. There's plenty of blame to go around. But the AMA, so far as I know, exists for no other purpose than to enrich its member physicians by stifling all attempts at competitive practices. A little background investigation into licensing attempts by optometrists, psychologists, osteopaths, et. al., will provide all the information you need. The AMA fought hard against these groups, first to prevent them from being licensed, and again to restrict their activities as much as possible once licensed. Do not mistake the AMA for an altruistic entity. It is no such thing. It is very much anti-competitive, and self-enriching for its members.

Rastaman wrote: . . . But America is trying to take every last penny before they go.

Again, I must take exception to your statement, Rastaman. It is not America that is doing anything here. The two groups of people you are referring to are physicians and their partners in this endeavor, the drug companies. That is simply the bottom line. FWIW, I think ResMed's CPAP manufacturing entity is no more than a bit-player in this scandal.

[/rant OFF] Sorry, I got carried away off-topic, but I thought it important to draw the distinctions about who was doing what to whom.

Regards,
Bill

What I'm saying is that people have more power than they know. I'm saying I'm at fault too in all of this for allowing the AMA to carry on as they do. There are many business practices that can be overcome if people work together. But getting everyone on the same page is nearly impossible. Which is why the AMA has us right where they want us. Is this change practical? Not likely. Is it possible. Ofcourse it is. We let the AMA in power in the first place. This whole scenario is very similar to politics. We, as a people, allow decisions to be made from the standpoint of the business's best interest. We don't like it, sure. But we just sit there and take it. And you know masses have the power to change alot of this but instead decide that they're just one person and can't possibly change anything. That was my only point. Yes, the AMA are the real villains. Yes, the lobbyists and folks with the money paying to keep things like they are, are the real culprits. They want to keep us in the dark so they can make money hand over fist.

History has an odd habit of things changing for the better and then future generations forgetting why things are that way in the first place and why not "try something new" just because. I know no one on this message board is who I'm talking about. I know none of us are going to stand for this Resmed thing. How can we? Do we have money to throw away? No. But we have the internet: a way to communicate with each other in masses. The more people that get it, the more that can communicate with all the other people on the net. All of us here have sought this website out as a way to communicate and share information. And all based on one ailment that we all share. If we can do that, we can do alot more.

I think Rodney Petersen's idea is good but wouldn't it even look better if he and other internet dealers were to continue selling the Resmed line for the same prices Then if Resmed were to cut them off from selling their equipment or raise the wholesale price of this equipment just to them, the online retailers would have enough information to raise a legal case against Resmed for price fixing and ignoring other FTC regulations. And to top that off the internet dealers could each make a news statement to the effect that Resmed has asked them to price fix their products at much higher prices. Because we respect each and ever one of our purchasers and feel it necessary to offer a fine product at a reasonable price, Resmed has terminated their business with us. So as of now we can no longer sell Resmed products by order of Resmed.

As far as cpap.com goes, I think they will continue to offer Resmed products no matter what the cost. From what I understand Billmyinsurance works and prices the same way as a DME so they would still sell Resmed products.

Come September Resmed has been fired from supplying me any further equipment and I use 2 of their masks.

Resmed needs a big kick in the A$$.

I think if Resmed purposely attempts to fix prices to shut out online DMEs then this will stain their image for many years to come. Its a foolish move both ethically and businesswise especially since its actually still early in the sleep apnea treatment game to burn bridges and anger consumers (end-users). There are so many people still learning about sleep disorders especially apnea and who will be seeking treatment.

Not only that but CPAPs may only have another 3 or 4 years of life as the preferred treatment of choice as new treatments are on the horizon that will take its place. Their coming soon.. and if Resmed wants to have any hope of salvaging their reputation in the medical product industry so that they might have a chance of providing technology that people will recognize as a good name brand, that fuels these new treatments, than they should scrap this idea now.

I'm sure someone at Resmed is going to be reading this forum, so reconsider this here. Better yet I think they should go and get a basic Business 101 college text and re-read a couple times marketing practices and theory. Make the consumers (end-users) happy and give them what they want and don't be unfair and unethical...

A great many people including me will respond by actively boycotting any resmed products. I could see a great many people organizing worldwide boycotts and giving negative referrals to their friends and family, spreading like wild fire to even those who otherwise wouldn't have been so informed will know about the price gouging. Many who might otherwise have been their next customers.

Styrker5777

Stryker5777 wrote:I think if Resmed purposely attempts to fix prices to shut out online DMEs then this will stain their image for many years to come. Its a foolish move both ethically and businesswise especially since its actually still early in the sleep apnea treatment game to burn bridges and anger consumers (end-users). There are so many people still learning about sleep disorders especially apnea and who will be seeking treatment.

I agree with you. I think Resmed's image has already been tainted. All they can hope to do now is damage control

Good reasoning about Resmed, but the realities of the market place will likely be that others will likely follow in increases.
It would be nice to think respironics and others would take this opportunity to hold their prices and get the good will etc, but this is not the way it works.
They will likely fall in line for the extra $$$$$$$.

Their bean counters are driven by the bottom line, not charity or good will.

Best advice I have is to buy rsep and rmd. I have more than doubled my money in the past couple of years.

I was in line at an airport and noticed a resmed bag and asked her about the machine and her OSA.
She said she got it for 2500.00 from a very nice DME,
She had never heard of any online forums etc.
The DME depend on these folks remaining ignorant and their business model is based on them, not us.
She was amazed when I told her that her machine could be bought for less than 600.00 online or about 250.00 on yahoo auctions.

I hope the tide is turning and more will be aware of this.
Our work is cut out for us.

If all the major manufacturers do this then I guess many of us will be getting other brands instead. The cheaper brands. And in the case of people who WERE buying extra masks, back-up xPAP's, etc. They will just have to make what their insurance buys last longer. If they don't have insurance then they'll just have to go without. There are lots of things in life that I go without that "most" people have. And regarding healthcare, growing up, even with insurance, we avoided the doctor at all costs due to percieved cost out of pocket and lack of funds for that. And back then prices were more reasonable. Not perfect by any means but more reasonable. Now, they're just outrageous! So, if there was a situation where I needed a major life-saving surgery or something to that effect and I didn't have insurance (which ALOT of people don't) then I would just be out of luck if there wasn't a way to get that service nearly for free.

And you know what? They don't CARE. Or else the prices wouldn't be this high to begin with. They're just trying to get money from those who are willing to part with it. So, if you have it, they want it. And if you don't have it, too bad, see you on the other side. I guess the pro-active thing is to move to a country that has a better healthcare system. Interestingly enough, just for example, our richest middle aged people are in worse health than the poor in England according to a recent study. And we spend on average twice as much per person on healthcare. Go figure! (I'd rather have less and know my healthcare was taken care of but that's just me.)

If case you haven't noticed, this makes me so angry I can't see straight.

I already don't own a home due to medical bills. I doubt I ever will. And I have what most would consider a decent job. But I didn't always have good insurance. I won't always have good insurance. I remember being billed $5,000 for an over night stay in the hospital when I had torn a pectoral muscle and they decided I must be having a heart attack from my blood pressure going up up up. (200/100) Obviously, I wasn't about to pay that much money for that. I've also had a few hernia surgeries and those are about $20,000 a piece now. Overwhelming and if I didn't have insurance at the time they would've NEVER gotten paid. Never! Over time I find myself learning how to do without many things. Less is more! Less worries. Let the people who want 'things' pay for them. And the more and more people get hip to this, the more people on a larger and larger scale either won't buy these items or won't be able to afford them. And meanwhile, people who do have the money to afford these things will be spending their money left and right, even though they really don't have to spend that much money to be happy. But they will just because they have it.

I find ResMeds excuse 'Compliance' laughable. Where is the independent study showing DME patients, more compliant than those who purchased their equipment on-line? Isn't OSA is a self-treatable affliction, much like diabetes?

[quote="oldgearhead"]I find ResMeds excuse 'Compliance' laughable. Where is the independent study showing DME patients, more compliant than those who purchased their equipment on-line? Isn't OSA is a self-treatable affliction, much like diabetes?

Rastaman wrote:If case you haven't noticed, this makes me so angry I can't see straight.

I already don't own a home due to medical bills. I doubt I ever will. And I have what most would consider a decent job.

Rastaman, you just reminded me of a coworker of mine who, when I was griping about having trouble with a local hospital system and the stupidity of a recent hospital bill, described to me what happened when his first child was born. For some reason his total bill was over $500,000, and not covered by insurance. According to him, the same hospital system hounded him mecilessly, threatened him, and wasn't responsive to overtures of reasonable settlement. His ace-in-the-hole was that being young, and just starting out in life, he had little to lose by declaring bankruptcy, and so that's exactly what he did.

The system is simply insane. The part of it we deal with for OSA is just a small part of the overall racket, merely the tip-of-the-iceberg.

Fortunately, one doesn't need to understand the entire system to understand where the money goes. That part is obvious. Just slightly less obvious is the lack of competition, and the reasons for that. What's fairly well obscured though, is the wanton destruction the medical system leaves in its wake. Ever have a relative in a nursing home? Ever spend a couple of weeks in a hospital? Ever had major surgery? Ever had complications from surgery? Ever had an error in a prescription? Ever had a serious reaction from medicine? Ever caught a staph infection in a hospital? Much like the proverbial fox guarding the henhouse, greed, corruption and laziness are in abundance. Waste and finger-pointing also abound, while those within the system are entirely unmotivated to change it.

The really nice thing about having OSA, and this forum, is that one can take personal responsibility for one's own therapy without being at the mercy of the idiotic medical system which operates much to the detriment of us as patients. As is becoming increasingly obvious, those within the system see us as an inconvenience needing to be dealt with. Like a leak in a dam, I suppose, there is a perceived need to stem the flow. And, like pigs at a trough, these guys just can't get enough of the patient's money.

Personally, I don't think ResMed has a chance of winning this war, although they might very well win the upcoming battle. Just my opinion, of course, but I remain optimistic that the forces at play for free information flow will win out here.

Regards,
Bill

I live in a van down by the river!!! J/K.

But I do pay $12,000 a year for RENT. I think I'm a fool! I've already been here over a year. In two years I will have paid $24,000! 5 years? $60,000! It's not that someone won't TAKE my money. It's that they don't seem to want to make buying a first-time home very easy. I have a wife and two kiddos age 2 and 6. We loved our new home when we moved into it because we had stayed awhile with my folks and that got old really quick, not because they're not wonderful people but because it was too many people in one place. And yeah, I can see why people file bankruptsy these days. We actually owe virtually nothing on credit. Very little. We already worked on that but we had to do all that through a credit counseling agency. And then when we had less than 1 year to go it became too much with the new higher rent. We were renting a 2 bedroom for about $620 a month in an even better part of town.

But for those who don't know, Austin has near California prices without near California wages. I have a friend who works for a mortgage company here in Austin and she says the exact same house in Houston goes for $400 a month in Houston and $1,200 in Austin. That was a few years back but that was the quote. Triple! Let's see....trade much higher crime for lower cost...hmmmmmm. But back to xPAP talk!

I hope my little Resmed lasts 20 years! I can dream can't I?

Rastaman wrote:But for those who don't know, Austin has near California prices without near California wages.

I didn't know that, Rastaman. It wasn't very many years ago that Austin was touted as having the lowest cost of living in the country. I believe you though. I was in Austin on business six months or so ago and it's quite a large city now.

Regards,
Bill

There is one ray of hope that I cling on to. In regards to other companies following suit, I don't think anyone has climbed on Resmed's no internet sales outside the US bandwagon yet and that has been in effect for a while now. Not everyone has such a big share of the market that they can give up internet sales. It might only be 5% of Resmed's pie but I think it represents a bigger slice for eveyone else.

I quit spending my money on ResMed products once they decided the rest of the world was not 'good enough' to purchase their products online.