Sick and Scared

We've all done lots of research, and lots of it into all kinds of things you probably never heard of. We're well aware of, and very up to date with what's out there - in serious journals (and snake oil types that come complete with placebo effects and testimonials ad nauseum). You did not invent nutrition or research... so stop trying to convert us. We're happy in our ignorance.

johncooke wrote:Again let me know what snake oil Im selling, I am giving info that can help..If you know for sure what I am doing is selling snake oil, Then why don't you tell me what it is Im doing exactly.... since your so sure of it...let everyone know my secret snake oil and try to debunk me or are you just going to hide behind the snake oil comment.

Contributing to people discontinuing (or falsely letting them think that they can discontinue) a life and health saving therapy which helps them breathe properly while they sleep IS selling "SNAKE OIL".
Metabolic imbalances don't cause sleep apnea, they're caused BY sleep apnea......specifically due to the lack of oxygen.
There was another long-running thread on the forum which implied that vitamin D would "cure" sleep apnea, too.
Another misconception which even many doctors have fallen for is that weight gain causes sleep apnea.......when the reverse is usually the case. Lots of "normal" size or slender people have obstructive or central sleep apnea, too.
Physical structural abnormalities/deficiencies/anomalies (in the airways) are the primary causes of obstructive sleep apnea.
Giving people false hope is like handing them a fully loaded revolver and suggesting they play Russian roulette.
The obituary sections of newspapers have numerous examples of people whose vanity or ignorance prevented them from sleeping with a life-saving breathing device.

This forum is for helping people adapt to and successfully use this therapy.......NOT try to help them quit!!!


Den

.

Julie wrote:And FYI, Cpap does NOT make your throat weaker - you need to learn some basic physiology.

FYI it does.... try sleeping without it after years of sleeping with a CPAP and you wont need a doctor or a sleep specialist to tell you that it gets much worse. I guess you must have done a lot of research or maybe is this a doctor telling you?..have you ever heard the saying don't listen to the shoe salesman on what shoes to buy...

Talk and ideas are cheap. Show me a sleep lab test where someone was diagnosed with sleep disordered breathing, followed by their regime of diet and exercise, followed a couple of years later by another sleep test that reversed the diagnosis of sleep disordered breathing.

Actually, I would like to see several of these.

Wulfman... wrote:

johncooke wrote:Again let me know what snake oil Im selling, I am giving info that can help..If you know for sure what I am doing is selling snake oil, Then why don't you tell me what it is Im doing exactly.... since your so sure of it...let everyone know my secret snake oil and try to debunk me or are you just going to hide behind the snake oil comment.

Contributing to people discontinuing (or falsely letting them think that they can discontinue) a life and health saving therapy which helps them breathe properly while they sleep IS selling "SNAKE OIL".
Metabolic imbalances don't cause sleep apnea, they're caused BY sleep apnea......specifically due to the lack of oxygen.
There was another long-running thread on the forum which implied that vitamin D would "cure" sleep apnea, too.
Another misconception which even many doctors have fallen for is that weight gain causes sleep apnea.......when the reverse is usually the case. Lots of "normal" size or slender people have obstructive or central sleep apnea, too.
Physical structural abnormalities/deficiencies/anomalies (in the airways) are the primary causes of obstructive sleep apnea.
Giving people false hope is like handing them a fully loaded revolver and suggesting they play Russian roulette.
The obituary sections of newspapers have numerous examples of people whose vanity or ignorance prevented them from sleeping with a life-saving breathing device.

This forum is for helping people adapt to and successfully use this therapy.......NOT try to help them quit!!!


Den

.

I never said drop your CPAP usage this is to ween people off as you made a point for me if someone quits using its dangerous, due to the fact that nothing changes in their life and their are many other things a person is deficient in besides just D and these all contribute but saying that I am telling people to just quit using CPAP all of a sudden without anything and weening off slowly, is jumping the gun a little.. So your saying since you have not been able to do it no one else should try right? You also saying you think people should not get off their CPAP. If you want to live dependent on the device that is fine I never said quit CPAP or else..... CPAP is good but for a crutch to get you better sleep to heal the body not to be dependent on the rest of your life.

HoseCrusher wrote:Talk and ideas are cheap. Show me a sleep lab test where someone was diagnosed with sleep disordered breathing, followed by their regime of diet and exercise, followed a couple of years later by another sleep test that reversed the diagnosis of sleep disordered breathing.

Actually, I would like to see several of these.

Show me a time where someone just did what your doing now and got off a CPAP machine? show me a person or study that did nothing different to their life body or eating style that got off or CPAP just by using CPAP?
You can find info about it making your throat weaker and very dependent on it the longer the use.

johncooke wrote:have you ever heard the saying don't listen to the shoe salesman on what shoes to buy...

I like how you're telling us to ignore you, and your bullshit.

refreshingly honest.

johncooke wrote: a part of the detox process

Everyone's kidney and liver works to detox your body. Science Fact. No other "detox" is needed.

A decade of macrobiotic organic vegetarian eating made no difference to the structure.

johncooke wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:

johncooke wrote:Again let me know what snake oil Im selling, I am giving info that can help..If you know for sure what I am doing is selling snake oil, Then why don't you tell me what it is Im doing exactly.... since your so sure of it...let everyone know my secret snake oil and try to debunk me or are you just going to hide behind the snake oil comment.

Contributing to people discontinuing (or falsely letting them think that they can discontinue) a life and health saving therapy which helps them breathe properly while they sleep IS selling "SNAKE OIL".
Metabolic imbalances don't cause sleep apnea, they're caused BY sleep apnea......specifically due to the lack of oxygen.
There was another long-running thread on the forum which implied that vitamin D would "cure" sleep apnea, too.
Another misconception which even many doctors have fallen for is that weight gain causes sleep apnea.......when the reverse is usually the case. Lots of "normal" size or slender people have obstructive or central sleep apnea, too.
Physical structural abnormalities/deficiencies/anomalies (in the airways) are the primary causes of obstructive sleep apnea.
Giving people false hope is like handing them a fully loaded revolver and suggesting they play Russian roulette.
The obituary sections of newspapers have numerous examples of people whose vanity or ignorance prevented them from sleeping with a life-saving breathing device.

This forum is for helping people adapt to and successfully use this therapy.......NOT try to help them quit!!!


Den

.

I never said drop your CPAP usage this is to ween people off as you made a point for me if someone quits using its dangerous, due to the fact that nothing changes in their life and their are many other things a person is deficient in besides just D and these all contribute but saying that I am telling people to just quit using CPAP all of a sudden without anything and weening off slowly, is jumping the gun a little.. So your saying since you have not been able to do it no one else should try right? You also saying you think people should not get off their CPAP. If you want to live dependent on the device that is fine I never said quit CPAP or else..... CPAP is good but for a crutch to get you better sleep to heal the body not to be dependent on the rest of your life.

Your "thinking" is extremely dangerous. And, you're delusional. I'm perfectly fine with sleeping with my "crutch" for the rest of my life (which will probably be lots longer than without it). I've probably had sleep apnea most of my life (in hindsight) and it contributed to my Diabetes somewhere along the way. Lots of OSA sufferers also have Diabetes. Proper breathing and the extra oxygen while we sleep helps that situation, too.

I have a feeling your duration on this forum is going to be VERY limited.


Den

.

johncooke wrote:

Julie wrote:And FYI, Cpap does NOT make your throat weaker - you need to learn some basic physiology.

FYI it does.... try sleeping without it after years of sleeping with a CPAP and you wont need a doctor or a sleep specialist to tell you that it gets much worse. I guess you must have done a lot of research or maybe is this a doctor telling you?..have you ever heard the saying don't listen to the shoe salesman on what shoes to buy...

It feels worse because your body is no longer used to being strangled many times a night and neither does it have the low O2 adaption.

But really before having another sleep test they tell you to sleep without your cpap for 2 weeks because the therapy lingers on.

Julie wrote:We've all done lots of research, and lots of it into all kinds of things you probably never heard of. We're well aware of, and very up to date with what's out there - in serious journals (and snake oil types that come complete with placebo effects and testimonials ad nauseum). You did not invent nutrition or research... so stop trying to convert us. We're happy in our ignorance.

Very good point, and im not trying to convert just giving info that you are trying to censor. if your happy that is awesome so then let others possibly hear this info besides just you and the few other CPAP lifers that are claiming im a witch for trying to give info. Also i can add you also did not invent nutrition and the people that did are very happy with you staying on CPAP. If someone reading this is wanting something different they can, that is all.

Also did you know that when those "real medical studies" are done they are biased and paid for by big pharma, and the others are discredited as pseudo science..the only real knowledge is experience.

Think about it would you make more money curing a problem or just treating symptoms with surgery, CPAP and medical devices. If you are happy in your ignorance that is fine but their are others who may want to try something different.

johncooke wrote:

HoseCrusher wrote:Talk and ideas are cheap. Show me a sleep lab test where someone was diagnosed with sleep disordered breathing, followed by their regime of diet and exercise, followed a couple of years later by another sleep test that reversed the diagnosis of sleep disordered breathing.

Actually, I would like to see several of these.

Show me a time where someone just did what your doing now and got off a CPAP machine? show me a person or study that did nothing different to their life body or eating style that got off or CPAP just by using CPAP?
You can find info about it making your throat weaker and very dependent on it the longer the use.

So, you have no hard evidence that your ideas work. You also have no hard evidence that xPAP weakens the throat muscles. Speculation is wonderful to engage in but reality rules.

xPAP is a therapy, not a cure.

It is wonderful to dream that it seems that if the body is relieved of all toxins and properly nourished that all illness and conditions would magically disappear. Unfortunately I have several friends who walked down that path and were unable to reach "total health." Some of them developed terminal illnesses in spite of their efforts and while they fought a good fight they eventually died. I would love it if your ideas would work but show me results. Without hard evidence you are just dreaming.

Wulfman... wrote:

johncooke wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:

johncooke wrote:Again let me know what snake oil Im selling, I am giving info that can help..If you know for sure what I am doing is selling snake oil, Then why don't you tell me what it is Im doing exactly.... since your so sure of it...let everyone know my secret snake oil and try to debunk me or are you just going to hide behind the snake oil comment.

Contributing to people discontinuing (or falsely letting them think that they can discontinue) a life and health saving therapy which helps them breathe properly while they sleep IS selling "SNAKE OIL".
Metabolic imbalances don't cause sleep apnea, they're caused BY sleep apnea......specifically due to the lack of oxygen.
There was another long-running thread on the forum which implied that vitamin D would "cure" sleep apnea, too.
Another misconception which even many doctors have fallen for is that weight gain causes sleep apnea.......when the reverse is usually the case. Lots of "normal" size or slender people have obstructive or central sleep apnea, too.
Physical structural abnormalities/deficiencies/anomalies (in the airways) are the primary causes of obstructive sleep apnea.
Giving people false hope is like handing them a fully loaded revolver and suggesting they play Russian roulette.
The obituary sections of newspapers have numerous examples of people whose vanity or ignorance prevented them from sleeping with a life-saving breathing device.

This forum is for helping people adapt to and successfully use this therapy.......NOT try to help them quit!!!


Den

.

I never said drop your CPAP usage this is to ween people off as you made a point for me if someone quits using its dangerous, due to the fact that nothing changes in their life and their are many other things a person is deficient in besides just D and these all contribute but saying that I am telling people to just quit using CPAP all of a sudden without anything and weening off slowly, is jumping the gun a little.. So your saying since you have not been able to do it no one else should try right? You also saying you think people should not get off their CPAP. If you want to live dependent on the device that is fine I never said quit CPAP or else..... CPAP is good but for a crutch to get you better sleep to heal the body not to be dependent on the rest of your life.

Your "thinking" is extremely dangerous. And, you're delusional. I'm perfectly fine with sleeping with my "crutch" for the rest of my life (which will probably be lots longer than without it). I've probably had sleep apnea most of my life (in hindsight) and it contributed to my Diabetes somewhere along the way. Lots of OSA sufferers also have Diabetes. Proper breathing and the extra oxygen while we sleep helps that situation, too.

I have a feeling your duration on this forum is going to be VERY limited.


Den

.

Well if that is what you think you got another think coming....I never said to quit your CPAP, you do it as long as you need to everyone is different. I personally hope you are happy with it and stop worrying so much about what I say and do your own thing no one is stopping you, do you think I am going to pull the wool over your eyes, and magically trick you? I just put info out there and your belief is that sleep apnea can not be cured and that is just what the medical industry wants you to believe.

Did you know that if people just listened to you, we would all be too scared to believe anything. Its like saying one religion is better than the other or no religion is best who knows but everyone has to do their own research but you seem to want others to join your way of thinking. Are you next going to tell me your religion is the correct one to believe as well.

johncooke wrote:Well if that is what you think you got another think coming....I never said to quit your CPAP, you do it as long as you need to everyone is different. I personally hope you are happy with it and stop worrying so much about what I say and do your own thing no one is stopping you, do you think I am going to pull the wool over your eyes, and magically trick you? I just put info out there and your belief is that sleep apnea can not be cured and that is just what the medical industry wants you to believe.

Did you know that if people just listened to you, we would all be too scared to believe anything. Its like saying one religion is better than the other or no religion is best who knows but everyone has to do their own research but you seem to want others to join your way of thinking. Are you next going to tell me your religion is the correct one to believe as well.

I'm not worried about you changing my way of thinking (or the thinking of many, many others on this forum).
I'm fearful of the poor saps who might believe YOU.

Hasta la vista, baby......


Den

.

HoseCrusher wrote:

johncooke wrote:

HoseCrusher wrote:Talk and ideas are cheap. Show me a sleep lab test where someone was diagnosed with sleep disordered breathing, followed by their regime of diet and exercise, followed a couple of years later by another sleep test that reversed the diagnosis of sleep disordered breathing.

Actually, I would like to see several of these.

Show me a time where someone just did what your doing now and got off a CPAP machine? show me a person or study that did nothing different to their life body or eating style that got off or CPAP just by using CPAP?
You can find info about it making your throat weaker and very dependent on it the longer the use.

So, you have no hard evidence that your ideas work. You also have no hard evidence that xPAP weakens the throat muscles. Speculation is wonderful to engage in but reality rules.

xPAP is a therapy, not a cure.

It is wonderful to dream that it seems that if the body is relieved of all toxins and properly nourished that all illness and conditions would magically disappear. Unfortunately I have several friends who walked down that path and were unable to reach "total health." Some of them developed terminal illnesses in spite of their efforts and while they fought a good fight they eventually died. I would love it if your ideas would work but show me results. Without hard evidence you are just dreaming.

I see where your at but hard evidence is a bad way to find real ways of healing as that can take so long, for people to get enough evidence to change could take two generations to finally be out...It is like when people and doctors thought cigarettes where ok to use and then the hard evidence came out way later and many people died as well listening to what everyone was saying. Until something is cured there is still a way to cure it it just has not been figured out yet as people believe what their told by authority figures.

I am sorry about your friends that tried health but ended up dying as that can be very confusing but still know one knows truly what they did and if it was really actually healthy... we all know what we see, and many can be or look like they are doing way different things than they may be letting on (perception is reality). My dad believed in the medical system and died at 54 in the hospital and was in there due to many complications of cirrhosis of the liver due to doctors giving way to many meds also had sleep apnea appear during this time. The thing that is so hard is that people hear that someone tried to be healthy for a month or started working out etc. but no one knows if there was other things this person was doing to counter act their healthy routine. I also know that many many more people have died under the care of doctors but that does not mean everything they say is wrong. I know that the body is the only thing that is really healing you and we just have to get out of the way and stop poisoning it.