cognitive memory difficulties caused by Silent strokes

Where do you live?

BlackSpinner wrote:

tiredandscared wrote:

Julie wrote:You don't KNOW what caused your hand 'thing' or what it really is, nor do you seem to care about getting a diagnosis or prognosis (and that's scary, because you can't know what other systems might be involved).

Generally from experience I have low confidence in most doctors. Gps are the worst(ruled out most of the common issues). Specialists are a hit or miss. Im going to switch over to a GP that isnt terrible at his/her job. In the mean time im researching about that and cognitive issues related to OSA and am interested in hearing from people with similar issues. It would be interesting to explore the relationship between TIA and residual cognitive symptoms. I think if most doctors were competent theyd look for Ischemic abnormalities to get a better idea of how to treat post OSA issues.

Correlation is not causation. It is very very difficult to decipher relationships. Sleep deprivation alone can feel like brain damage.

in th3 Contrary its usually intrinsic functional issue or an abnormal/structural problem. F.ex in pituary gland disorder the issue of hormone secretion is either visable via a structural issue ( cyst, adenioma, damage) or intrinsic in the sense that something that has to with the signalling pathway is malfunctioning. So usually if someone has a stroke like tissue theyll affect it subtly.

I know what you can do... get a degree in neurology following your MD, then you can explore all the relationships you want - and at the same time have a clue about what you're talking about, let alone playing with your body.

mgaggie wrote:Where do you live?

The country with the most expensive but worst health care outcome in the west. Sweden.

Since we're on the "IF" train, if you have sleep apnea causing your cognitive issues, and if you have had silent strokes actually caused by sleep apnea, and if your finger weakness comes from a silent stroke caused by sleep apnea, we have come full circle back to getting tested for sleep apnea and treating it if diagnosed. No number of possible scenarios will prove you have sleep apnea, as every symptom it can cause could have other origins. Only being tested will get you answers.

My sister is constantly researching her symptoms on the internet. She's always reading some study or another, and deciding she has whatever ailment she's reading about. And for every study saying one thing, there's another one contradicting it. She researches every little thing - a twitch here, or a pain there. All the time. And she's constantly talking about her ailments. She even makes up things that she think she has wrong.

We call her a hypochondriac.

tiredgrl wrote:My sister is constantly researching her symptoms on the internet. She's always reading some study or another, and deciding she has whatever ailment she's reading about. And for every study saying one thing, there's another one contradicting it. She researches every little thing - a twitch here, or a pain there. All the time. And she's constantly talking about her ailments. She even makes up things that she think she has wrong.

We call her a hypochondriac.

tiredgrl,

I am sure I have seemed like a hypochondriac in the past when I researched sleep issues on the internet extensively due to having some strange symptoms that doctors couldn't explain although I think my current sleep doctor started to take me seriously even though she admitted she had no answers. But I definitely haven't gone looking for ailments as I certainly felt I had enough medical issues to deal with.

49er

Hi All!

I have just read these posts and I felt compelled to reply....

I am nearly a doctor / MD (well I qualify in a few months officially), in fact I'm currently on my Neuro / Brain surgery rotation and I just wanted to make a couple of points.

1) IF you feel you have problems / medical issues please go to your primary care provider and discuss with them so you can get the appropriate investigations and treatment

2) Please do not rely on Wikipedia / the Internet / Text books for self diagnosis, clinical trial, studies, papers and the like. YES if you are diagnosed with something (like OSA) then the internet is an amazing resource to become an expert in your condition, as many patients become - that's great because it means as a doctor and patient we can manage treatment together and find a course of action we both agree about and can get behind.

But please don't go self diagnosing - becoming a doctor has taken years of study and years of clinical experience on the wards, and what is so easily forgotten is the CONTEXT of information. Yes you can read about conditions, drugs and treatments but without the training to put it into context and apply it appropriately it means nothing.

As a very old and wise doctor once told me....

"You can download the instruction manual for Concorde on the internet.................. but it doesn't mean you can fly the plane!"

I use DR Google for many things. BUT always get to a real DR. I am lucky to be in the US.

I also find that google is very good with specific questions. If you google "stroke and sleep" as well as "stroke and OSA" you get several studies, some of them recent that provide a direct and independent link between OSA and stroke. These are mediated with treatment. I knew that if you get on CPAP many times blood pressure gets better. I was surprised to find a direct independent link between OSA and stroke even after excluding factors like hypertension, obesity, and other factors.

I started a long response quoting several of the studies.. but gave up.

In general several studies started with stroke patients and look for OSA.... Several were done this way. The results vary but between 77 and 91% of people with strokes have OSA.

One recent German one was specifically looking at "silent strokes" which is what this thread is about. It found that 91% of people with silent strokes had apnea.

The one I like the best is from MAYO. They went back through their health records and started with people with OSA. They excluded people with stroked before the OSA was diagnosed. so, they had people with OSA first, and looked forward. There was a high correlation with OSA patients who then had strokes vs a control group.

One study went further and divided the results between mild OSA and moderate to severe OSA. They found no health links for people with mild OSA. BUT several links for people with severe OSA, including stroke and cancer.

So, I would not use DR google to start with my tingling fingers and get worried about silent strokes caused by my apnea.

Personally I also have tingling fingers as well as apnea. My pinky and finger next to it tingle..... it was linked to a pinched nerve in my neck from spinal decompression and arthritis.... a common problem in my family. EITEHR WAY, get to a DR.

One study was by this DRs in Sweden:

Impairment of cerebral perfusion during obstructive sleep apneas.

E M Bålfors, and K A Franklin
-Author Affiliations
Department of Anesthesia, University Hospital of Northern Sweden, Umeå.

Maybe you can get in to see them.
This study was not directly related to stroke. BUT if they are looking at this, they may be willing to listen to your concerns as well.

Not sure how it works there. I lived in the UK for 12 years, and there the GP was the gate keeper to get to the specialist. Kind of like a HMO here is the US.

I am rambeling now... sorry.

to Tiredandscared.
Re: last two fingers : You might look up info on Dupuytren"s Contracture...maybe???

OP, what you are saying is you cant call a neurologist and make an appointment? That is what I did. (USA)

There's a saying that a lawyer has a fool for a client if he tries his own case... well in a sense you're trying to be your own doctor, but without even having medical education (as a lawyer at least has a law degree). Is that what you would recommend for e.g. your children? Your family? Not smart!

49er wrote:

tiredgrl wrote:My sister is constantly researching her symptoms on the internet. She's always reading some study or another, and deciding she has whatever ailment she's reading about. And for every study saying one thing, there's another one contradicting it. She researches every little thing - a twitch here, or a pain there. All the time. And she's constantly talking about her ailments. She even makes up things that she think she has wrong.

We call her a hypochondriac.

tiredgrl,

I am sure I have seemed like a hypochondriac in the past when I researched sleep issues on the internet extensively due to having some strange symptoms that doctors couldn't explain although I think my current sleep doctor started to take me seriously even though she admitted she had no answers. But I definitely haven't gone looking for ailments as I certainly felt I had enough medical issues to deal with.

49er

49er - you must be feeling guilty about something. I'm not saying nor implying I thought you are a hypochondriac. My sister has every ailment she has researched - diabetes, a brain tumor, epilepsy, a stroke, etc., etc. Learning more about a diagnosed condition isn't being a hypochondriac - it's becoming more informed.

Punchyandtired wrote:OP, what you are saying is you cant call a neurologist and make an appointment? That is what I did. (USA)

Expensive without a decent income and here they work via remittal. Ill see to it if i ever get the chance.

Julie wrote: Therese a saying that a lawyer has a fool for a client if he tries his own case... well in a sense you're trying to be your own doctor, but without even having medical education (as a lawyer at least has a law degree). Is that what you would recommend for e.g. your children? Your family? Not smart!

You have way too much faith in the general ability of common doctors. I dont know what your experience with them has been. But here they're a hit or miss. Some GPs are so grossly incompetent they look at medical encyclopedias in middle of an appointment(anyone who can write at a rudimentary level can do that). Private gps are better but generally they're not up to date. Specialists are usually the best , especially if they they keep up to date. All those studies and recorded clinical cases are based on the work of doctors involved in research and they tend to be the part of the medical community with the most experience and most knowledge on the subject of their expertise. The ideal for doctors is to be up to date on research and knowledge. The general medical population rarely tend to keep such high standards(and the lower the tier is the worse the quality of treatment is). Ive meet a doctor who thought that airway acid reflux was all in my head. Sure enough a scope by a good ENT showed inflammation in the vocal cords. There are plenty of people who have an opposite experience, and granted we all base our views and opinions on personal anecdotes(since we dont have the data for health care outcomes available) . Im not sure why you'd be dismissive and angry about that.

tiredgrl wrote:

49er wrote:

tiredgrl wrote:My sister is constantly researching her symptoms on the internet. She's always reading some study or another, and deciding she has whatever ailment she's reading about. And for every study saying one thing, there's another one contradicting it. She researches every little thing - a twitch here, or a pain there. All the time. And she's constantly talking about her ailments. She even makes up things that she think she has wrong.

We call her a hypochondriac.

tiredgrl,

I am sure I have seemed like a hypochondriac in the past when I researched sleep issues on the internet extensively due to having some strange symptoms that doctors couldn't explain although I think my current sleep doctor started to take me seriously even though she admitted she had no answers. But I definitely haven't gone looking for ailments as I certainly felt I had enough medical issues to deal with.

49er

49er - you must be feeling guilty about something. I'm not saying nor implying I thought you are a hypochondriac. My sister has every ailment she has researched - diabetes, a brain tumor, epilepsy, a stroke, etc., etc. Learning more about a diagnosed condition isn't being a hypochondriac - it's becoming more informed.

tiredgrl,

My apologies as I didn't communicate my point very well. I think what I was trying to say is sometimes I feel there is a fine line between researching something and looking for things and maybe that is what I was feeling guilty about:) which you obviously had nothing to do with.

For example, I wondered at times if I had diabetes. Not because I was looking for a diagnosis but I sure seemed to have the symptoms of it and worried that perhaps I was in denial. But I think other issues may be at play. Anyway, if I still continue to think it is an issue, I need to see an endocrinologist, plain and simple

But I definitely don't do what your sister does and look for everything under the sun. Too depressing.