Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

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palerider
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Re: Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

Post by palerider » Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:05 pm

Wulfman... wrote: considering that the ACA was written and passed solely by the Democrats in Congress.
ok, I knew I shouldn't read this thread, and after reading that complete load of crap, I know I was right.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/01/1 ... tail=email

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PST
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Re: Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

Post by PST » Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:32 pm

I get a kick out of reading Wulfman's last two posts one right after the other. Don't switch back and forth too quickly; the cognitive dissonance could give you a headache.

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Re: Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

Post by Wulfman... » Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:44 pm

palerider wrote:
Wulfman... wrote: considering that the ACA was written and passed solely by the Democrats in Congress.
ok, I knew I shouldn't read this thread, and after reading that complete load of crap, I know I was right.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/01/1 ... tail=email
As much as I dislike the Daily Kos, I think they got most of that right.......up until they claim that the Republicans are going to dismantle it. I really doubt that it's going to happen the way they're suggesting. How many government programs do you know of that get revoked/reversed/undone/removed?

Personally, I dislike the insurance industry (I was once a licensed insurance agent) and could have probably gone for a "single-payer" system. Unfortunately, I don't trust our government to run it any better or more efficiently than what we have had.

Here's the article PR was referring to in case anybody wants to read it.

When you have the industries writing their own legislation, it's hard not to imagine that they're going to make it advantageous to their own interests.......$$$.


Den

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Steven Brill & 60 Minutes show why letting lobbyists write the ACA was an Enormous Blunder

by Lefty CoasterFollow

In 2009 when the Affordable Care Act was being crafted together a calculation was made not to challenge the entrenched power of the big stakeholders in the American Health Care system no doubt to avoid provoking their opposition to the reforms in health care that would have probably prevented its passage. This Faustian bargain prevented any constraints being imposed on the revenue streams going to those powerful stakeholders like hospitals and Big Pharma. So Democrats in the Congress Like Senator Max Baucus essentially let the stakeholders lobbyists like Liz Fowler wrote protections for the inflated revenue streams for the powerful stakehilders into the A.C.A. Cost containment went by the wayside. Now we've got a reformed health care system that expands access to segments of the population that were being left out, but we still have a for profit healthcare system with its attendant very high costs.

No one I know framed these problems with how the A.C.A. was crafted together largely by lobbyists to protect entrenched interests revenue streams better than Bill Moyers did back in the Fall of 2009.

So now we're saddled with this expensive for profit Rube Goldberg machine of a health care system instead of the single payer system many of us on the Left were clamoring for.
The power of the entrenched interests has only grown since the Moyer piece described it in 2009. We now have a congress with Republican majorities in both houses looking for ways to dismember the A.C.A. as much as they can, threatening the reforms that are so desperately needed by millions of Americans. Its a predicament that's likely to get a lot worse the more Republicans meddle with the A.C.A.

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snostorm
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Re: Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

Post by snostorm » Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:49 pm

I'm an independent however I work in the Healthcare field. Obama care is a complete abomination.

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Re: Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

Post by Goofproof » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:44 pm

When it comes to the government programs, dismantling them doesn't happen, they are boiler plated over, and extended to suck more money into sinkhole! At least they will have more money to buy sand, that will provide a place to store more Sheeple heads. Jim
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Re: Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

Post by Julie » Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:22 pm

So that makes you the victors? Of what? Seeing poor kids go without healthcare through no fault of their own - whatever their parents might have done or not done? Are you proud of yourself for that? Sickening - no pun intended!

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Re: Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

Post by palerider » Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:33 pm

Julie wrote:So that makes you the victors? Of what? Seeing poor kids go without healthcare through no fault of their own - whatever their parents might have done or not done? Are you proud of yourself for that? Sickening - no pun intended!
well, the thing is.... they don't care about anybody but themselves.

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Re: Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

Post by Chevie » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:06 pm

Elle wrote:Why are the right wingers so angry in the US?
You must have been born January 2008. You missed the 8 years George W. Bush was in office and the "left wingers" were hanging and burning effigies of our President in the streets.

Or maybe you saw it, but you don't count that as anger. Nothing the left is inflamed about is called "anger" by left wingers.

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Re: Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

Post by Chevie » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:08 pm

palerider wrote:
Julie wrote:So that makes you the victors? Of what? Seeing poor kids go without healthcare through no fault of their own - whatever their parents might have done or not done? Are you proud of yourself for that? Sickening - no pun intended!
well, the thing is.... they don't care about anybody but themselves.
Julie wrote:So that makes you the victors? Of what? Seeing poor kids go without healthcare through no fault of their own - whatever their parents might have done or not done? Are you proud of yourself for that? Sickening - no pun intended!
And none of these comments are anger.

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Re: Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

Post by Chevie » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:12 pm

palerider wrote:
well, the thing is.... they don't care about anybody but themselves.
Do you ever read any social research? Conservatives give far more to charity than liberals. Charitable giving in "red states" is higher than charitable giving in "blue states".

But like Choker said, liberals judge by "good intentions" not by results. It doesn't matter what you actually give. To liberals it's just their thoughts that count. No need to open their pocketbooks.

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palerider
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Re: Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

Post by palerider » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:23 pm

Chevie wrote:
palerider wrote:
well, the thing is.... they don't care about anybody but themselves.
Do you ever read any social research? Conservatives give far more to charity than liberals. Charitable giving in "red states" is higher than charitable giving in "blue states".

But like Choker said, liberals judge by "good intentions" not by results. It doesn't matter what you actually give. To liberals it's just their thoughts that count. No need to open their pocketbooks.
uh huh.... suuuure. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/gov ... after-all/

how much did YOU personally donate to charity this past year?

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Wulfman...
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Re: Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

Post by Wulfman... » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:29 pm

PST wrote:I get a kick out of reading Wulfman's last two posts one right after the other. Don't switch back and forth too quickly; the cognitive dissonance could give you a headache.
Are you telling me that I'm a flip-flopping LIBERAL Democrat?

http://www.speaker.gov/general/leading- ... against-it

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kerrys-top-ten-flip-flops/

http://billmoyers.com/2015/01/12/democr ... egulation/

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... st_it.html

Or, a lawyer......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

A lawyer may experience the negative tension of dissonance if they must defend, and call "innocent", a client that they
think is actually guilty. On Aronson's view, however, the lawyer may feel dissonance specifically because falsely calling the defendant "innocent" conflicts with the lawyer's own self-concept of being an honest person.


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Re: Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

Post by Goofproof » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:32 pm

Conservitist gives his money to help, Liberals give yours, and take a cut! Jim

Giving is good, but throwing money at problems doesn't solve basic problems such as overpopulation from lack of responsibility. Food seems to be at a premium, but bullets and AK-47's are plentiful. Basic sanitation, clean drinking water and maybe shooting everyone shooting a AK-47 in the air for cameras, might be useful. Kidnapping, Rape, and Slavery, are rampant, maybe something needs to be done to protect the population. Jim
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Re: Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

Post by Wulfman... » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:39 pm

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palerider
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Re: Obamacare and Sixty Minutes

Post by palerider » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:54 pm

sorry, I'm done. arguing politics is about as nonsensical as arguing religion.

facts don't enter into it, just 'faith' and 'belief' and therefore, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference what someone else says, because nothing anybody says is going to change dens mind, or chevie's, etc.

people will believe whatever they want to, and attempts to show them differently will just be met by dogma.

as sludge says, you kids have fun.

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