The Big Lie

[Guest]

LPN wrote a script for APAP and they will not honor that either. I was hoping for a compromise to a PRO2.

Is it not the DME's job to fill the prescription your doctor gave them? I don't understand this. How can they refuse to give you what the doctor prescribed?
Clearly, they don't stand to make as much profit off a more expensive PRO2. They'll give you the cheapest machine they've got.

Fire them. Get a new DME or order online. Life's too short to have to deal with such extraordinary idiocy.

Hopefully, as time marches on, the traditional DME will become a thing of the past. They are superfluous. It's bad enough they exist as an expensive middleman, but to impede your treatment by denying you the machine you were prescribed, is reprehensible.

[Bingo]

LPN wrote a script for APAP and they will not honor that either. I was hoping for a compromise to a PRO2.

Is it not the DME's job to fill the prescription your doctor gave them? I don't understand this. How can they refuse to give you what the doctor prescribed?
Clearly, they don't stand to make as much profit off a more expensive PRO2. They'll give you the cheapest machine they've got.

Fire them. Get a new DME or order online. Life's too short to have to deal with such extraordinary idiocy.

Hopefully, as time marches on, the traditional DME will become a thing of the past. They are superfluous. It's bad enough they exist as an expensive middleman, but to impede your treatment by denying you the machine you were prescribed, is reprehensible.

Assuming the initial poster quoted here isn't misunderstanding something -- An LPN is not allowed to write prescriptions.

Of course, I'm sure somehow the Equipment Provider is still at fault.

B

[Snoozin' Bluezzz]

See, this is where I think the largest part of the problem is coming from in so many of the cases here.

You WANT a new CPAP that has these nifty reporting features that your current unit does not have.

Why might she want this? is it just foolish desire for the "newest" thing or perhaps it is because she wants to take greater charge of her therapy and understand exactly what is happening thereby ensuring a greater probability of a more positive outcome and ultimately saving the system more money in the long run. Like the Fram commercial - "pay now or pay later".

There isn't any actual specific FUNCTION your current unit is not performing that is required for it to do it's job. There is just more NOW that it COULD do.

How does she know this? She has no data. She has only a subjective sense of how well she is doing, nor not doing. If she is having ups and downs in her results she has no means to determine why and without dramatic changes her insurance is not going to permit another sleep study for 3-5 years at a minimum.

And now, because they won't give you one, they are awful, evil people.

Why???

I mean, I'd love a newer model truck than I currently have. Sure mine is only a couple years old now, but it doesn't have the cool navigation system that would keep me from getting lost.

However, I'm not calling the bank who loaned me the money, the car dealer who sold me the car (KNOWING A NEW ONE WAS COMING OUT NO LESS!) and everyone else evil because of it?

I honestly don't see the difference between the two. In both cases the initial item is performing exactly as it is supposed to. In both cases I have paid for and received an item.

I am sorry that you don't see the difference. I certainly do. The comparison to a diabetics self care is completely apt here. The diabetic blood sugar monitoring is not a "cool navigation system" and neither is reporting on xPAP therapy statistics.

I just *want* the new one. It doesn't mean I'm *entitled* to it.

Just one minority opinion -

B

and you are more than welcome to it. I respect your right to the opinion however much I might disagree with the logic used to arrive at it.

David

[Snoozin' Bluezzz]

LPN wrote a script for APAP and they will not honor that either. I was hoping for a compromise to a PRO2.

Assuming the initial poster quoted here isn't misunderstanding something -- An LPN is not allowed to write prescriptions.

Of course, I'm sure somehow the Equipment Provider is still at fault.

B

The RT wrote my prescription. The sleep doc signed it. She wrote it incorrect (not in accordance with the Sleep Docs instructions) he signed the incorrect one so I know the sleep doc didn't look at it. I had to have it corrected but the system really works well!

David

[Offerocker]

ALL: corrected original post to read NURSE PRACTITIONER. Thanks for catching that.


Anonymous:

I just retrieved a message from local Evil-DME quoting the owner as saying "the machine you have presently is FINE"
((CPAP-PRO (NOT PRO2)).

And now, because they won't give you one, they are awful, evil people.

Why???.

I don't see ANYONE GIVING ANYTHING!!!
Luckily, I have at my disposal THREE insurance plans!

My honest answer is "Why not?" Who are THEY to decide what is "fine", especially when I have a Rx for an APAP; that wasn't written on a whim.
Second reason: WHO ELSE IS GOING TO MONITOR MY HEALTH CONCERNS, IF NOT MYSELF?

I just *want* the new one. It doesn't mean I'm *entitled* to it.

IMHO, My HEALTH is *entitled*, and it's part of MY health PLAN.
I DO UNDERSTAND FROM WHERE YOU'RE COMING, and want me to understand. Somehow, I expect the same level of 'service' as I'm getting from my doctor or pharmacist or mechanic. ...of course, I CHOSE them MORE CAREFULLY, AND it is much easier to switch mechanics than a DME after one is 90% into the 'program'.

[Guest]

There was another thread here where I warned about people making snap judgements without having all the facts.

I was pretty soundly mocked by the folks posting in that thread, and even given specifics showing me where I wasn't paying attention to the facts.

It was then shown that the initial person posting misunderstood a couple things and had made an error.

No one really stopped to offer any apologies - nor did I expect any.

I'm sorry your feelings were hurt and that no one really stopped to offer any apologies - not that you expected any.

It's very, VERY easy to make all sorts of judgement claims without knowing the specifics.

Case in point - your first link sure sounds like someone was quoting a price for a unit complete with software and card reader. Of course, no one actually followed up to double check.

Are you saying the figures are incorrect?

[Bingo]

There was another thread here where I warned about people making snap judgements without having all the facts.

I was pretty soundly mocked by the folks posting in that thread, and even given specifics showing me where I wasn't paying attention to the facts.

It was then shown that the initial person posting misunderstood a couple things and had made an error.

No one really stopped to offer any apologies - nor did I expect any.

I'm sorry your feelings were hurt and that no one really stopped to offer any apologies - not that you expected any.

It's very, VERY easy to make all sorts of judgement claims without knowing the specifics.

Case in point - your first link sure sounds like someone was quoting a price for a unit complete with software and card reader. Of course, no one actually followed up to double check.

Are you saying the figures are incorrect?

Heh, trust me. My feelings weren't hurt. I simply raised the point to show a specific case where, when I suggested not jumping to conclusions, I was proven correct.

Do I know the figures are incorrect? Heck no, and that's exactly my point. NONE of us know if the figures are correct or not. What I've been preaching all along is to remember that. Again, see the statement above - when you jump to conclusions - you can often be wrong.

And I think it's obscene to jump to a conclusion that results in someone slamming others (Why, that doctor is incompetant and doesn't know what he's doing! That Equipment Provider is a Scam Artist and Evil! etc etc etc).

B

[Snoozin' Bluezzz]

And I think it's obscene to jump to a conclusion that results in someone slamming others (Why, that doctor is incompetant and doesn't know what he's doing! That Equipment Provider is a Scam Artist and Evil! etc etc etc).
B

I don't think most folks here have "jumped" to conclusions. Most folk's conclusions have been reached based on their personal experience of the system. As they talk to others and read these forums they have received enough anecdotal data to extend those conclusions to a wider sphere.

You are the one that is generalizing and imputing meaning, other than a common refrain here (which I have never used) of "Evil DME". I don't agree with that kind of demonizing (generally a bit tongue in cheek anyway I think) either but I understand where it comes from - sheer frustration and anger at the nature of their experience within the system. I don't doubt that my doctors are well meaning, (in general) and competent (in general) within the bounds of average competency (it has to be a normal distribution doesn't it, I mean we all can't go to Mayo). They have their own experiences, opinions and biases and they have listened to me "sort of". I don't know that they have heard me. The structure is flawed, it often doesn't work well for ordinary John or Jane Doe. Some folks have honestly reported good experiences on this forum and "Good for them" and I envy then to a degree. My experiences, and many others, with the medical industry including Sleep Docs and DME's (not CPAP.COM except for Activa sizing) have been "fair" to "horrible". It seems like "fair", meaning adequate not just, it pretty much the best we can hope for. That's not good enough when I spend as much money and time on healthcare as I do and when it is my life and well being at stake.

I am afraid, from your responses, that you are not listening and hearing what others are really saying but that is only my opinion, I might be evil and wrong.

David

[jkeene]

See, this is where I think the largest part of the problem is coming from in so many of the cases here.

You WANT a new CPAP that has these nifty reporting features that your current unit does not have.

There isn't any actual specific FUNCTION your current unit is not performing that is required for it to do it's job. There is just more NOW that it COULD do.

And now, because they won't give you one, they are awful, evil people.

Why???

I see it a bit differently. The annual premium on my family health coverage is over twelve thousand dollars. Now, when it turns out I have a condition that means I'm going to make a claim against that policy, I get pushed into a machine that costs five hundred dollars. But the better machine, at a thousand dollars, has better patient outcomes due to a better feedback loop between the patient and machine's treatment system.

So I have to go through a long battle to get the better treatment, that only costs another five hundred dollars, when the insurance company is collecting an annual premium of twelve thousand.

Yes, I think there's some call for using the word "evil" in this situation.

By contrast, when I had to get my roof replaced after the Florida hurricanes of 2004, there was nowhere near this level of nickel and diming the ratepayer. Got some quotes, got a check, got the work done.

[Offerocker]

'

"Snoozin' Bluezzz"]....other than a common refrain here (which I have never used) of "Evil DME". I don't agree with that kind of demonizing (generally a bit tongue in cheek anyway I think) either but I understand where it comes from - sheer frustration and anger at the nature of their experience within the system...

Yes, it WAS tongue-in-cheek, and I don't like using the word EVIL, but, as you said, it was out of frustration, and I couldn't think of a 'better' word, and I don't think that cursing is permitted in this Forum. NO, they are not evil, but they are TREATING ME IN AN EVIL MANNER, and are just not as accommodating as I had expected. I still treat people the way I want to be treated, but then, my LIFE is a Not-for-Profit one.

Funny, though, my HEALTH seems to be a "FOR PROFIT" experience.

I'd welcome another term, other than 'evil' (p-poor service?)

[Snoozin' Bluezzz]

I'd welcome another term, other than 'evil' (p-poor service?)

How about ridiculous? Or silly? Or absurd? Or Clueless?

Problem is I don't think they are clueless, I believe they are clued in actually. Ridiculous works for me and might spur change because folks can take a certain pride in being called "Evil" but no one, absolutely no one, likes to be called ridiculous, particularly when it is true.

David

[Offerocker]

Good Point, Blue, and well-received.
I was thinking of 'uncoperative dme', but that keeps ME in the picture, and it's all about "THEM"...as I've experienced so far.

[Bingo]

My experiences, and many others, with the medical industry including Sleep Docs and DME's (not CPAP.COM except for Activa sizing) have been "fair" to "horrible". It seems like "fair", meaning adequate not just, it pretty much the best we can hope for. That's not good enough when I spend as much money and time on healthcare as I do and when it is my life and well being at stake.

First off, thank you for what appeared, in my opinion, to be the least confrontational and accusatory response to one I've my posts that I've read.
All I've ever been trying to do with my posts is present a fair and balanced viewpoint even if it is different from many others here. Never saying anyone isn't entitled to a viewpoint, just that I think it's often unfair.

Now, in the quote I've snagged above this again raises one of the same central questions I've asked a number of times but no one has responded to.

One of the regular points of contention in many posts around here has been the amounts being reimbursed by an insurance company for equipment. Cpap.com gets reimbursed the same amounts from the insurance companies, yet he is regularly considered a wonderful person/company here. Why the schism between the two entities? The same equipment - the same reimbursement. Yet one group (The Equipment Providers) are considered money-grubbing scum out to get rich, the other considered 'The beginning of a revolution!'. Understand, I have ZERO problem with that model, and both sides should be allowed to make whatever living they can in their chosen field. I just take issue with the double-standard.

Aside from that, yes I am hearing the frustration and anger. Part of my difficulty is that for myself, and generally speaking for all those I know - virtually none of us have ever had anything remotely resembling the kinds of experiences many of you relate. Myself specifically, I have encountered one doctor in my lifetime who I felt did not genuinely care about me. So I found another. That's all. Nothing to it. I would expect to find the occasional sour grape in my bunch. It's a fact of life.

So, since neither myself nor any in my "circle" have had these experiences, I have a hard time relating to them.

Am I saying anyone is wrong in thinking they have had bad experiences, of course not. How could I? I'm not in your shoes.

Anyways, again - this is my opinion. My perspective.

B

[Bingo]

See, this is where I think the largest part of the problem is coming from in so many of the cases here.

You WANT a new CPAP that has these nifty reporting features that your current unit does not have.

There isn't any actual specific FUNCTION your current unit is not performing that is required for it to do it's job. There is just more NOW that it COULD do.

And now, because they won't give you one, they are awful, evil people.

Why???

I see it a bit differently. The annual premium on my family health coverage is over twelve thousand dollars.
...
Yes, I think there's some call for using the word "evil" in this situation.

See, this is a great example of exactly what I've been trying to say.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!

However - why is it the Equipment Provider that is "evil" and not the insurance company?

The insurance company collects the premium

The insurance company decides what equipment you are allowed.

The insurance company decides how much they will pay for it.

All the equipment provider does is provide what they are instructed.

So to me, the problem is with the insurance company. Why do others see it differently?

Bingo

[Wulfman]

I can't wait to see the responses to THIS one......

Especially:

All the equipment provider does is provide what they are instructed.

Den