Positional Apneas

[racprops]

Yes Virginia there are Positional Apneas!!

For the past two months I have fought to get used to using my new ASV machine. (See: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=89026&st=0&sk=t&sd=a For details...More about the findings of positional apneas start with viewtopic.php?f=1&t=89026&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=135)

During this time I was sleeping in a recliner (still recovering from a quad bypass) and ever so often I would get a low AHI reading..Even on night a 4 and 1/2 hour sleep run with a reading of ZERO AHI.

BUT I could not repeat this "Happening", I just could not do it twice...

It seemed that on top of having Apneas, then Complex sleep apneas needing a ASV machine I now find that I also have POSITIONAL APNEAS.

That is: my number of apneas and kind of apneas are caused or changed by what position I am sleeping in.

For weeks I have tried to figure what relined (leaned back) position was working every so often in my recliner.

I was sure all I need was to find the right reclined position that worked and I would have it done...

I could not find it.

I tried a wedge in bed and failed to get better numbers...I tried it in bed flat on my back again high numbers.

Then I found that I could now sleep on my left side and get low numbers, in fact ZEROs and I could do it every time.

But why?? And what was happening with those good nights in the recliner?

Well I have found my smoking gun.

It is NOT that I need to sleep at 90 degrees off my back, it is that I need to be not flat on my back.

And this maybe how I had good nights in my recliner, I could turn a little to the left (or perhaps right, will check…) and lower my AHI.

SO I tried putting a thin pillow under my right side in the recliner… and turned to the left a little bit and I got less than 5 AHI. I again woke with pain..but it was a little AHI.

SO I tried it in bed. Propped my right side up with pillows and again I got low AHIs. In fact crude as my set up was I still stayed below 10 AHIs overall.

Well I was right…I only need to keep myself from lying FLAT on my back, my last test I slept on my left side with pillows set to catch me if I roll over and stop me and keep me slightly raised so I do not get flat on my back.

I woke up lying against the pillows and with low numbers so now as I can shift position in bed in my sleep I have less body pain.

I am a much happier camper/sleeper now.

It was hard hunt with the chair confusing things as I seemed to be sleeping flat and only tilting myself back…I can in hine sight see I may have been twisting just enough to change my apneas.

Tonight will be the final proof of the pudding.

Zeros is nice, but I got too much body pain in a fixed position, sleeping with pillows holding me at 90 degrees to the bed on my left side... so if I can sleep better and stay below 10 AHI I should be happy.

Next day:

Getting better, still having pain in bed, but I feel it will stop being a problem soon. (I just need to get used to a bed again...I hope)

Now I will need to break my four+ month habit of waking up 5 to 6 times every night after only a hour to a hour 1/2 of sleep.

I started this as a new topic for those whom may not even heard or considered position as part of sleep apneas.

Rich

[chunkyfrog]

My DH has very significantly positional apnea.
On his side, it is practically zero; on his back, around 60.
I, on the other hand, am all over the place.

[mars]

Maybe worth a look -

viewtopic/t70205/-Mars-Given-OK-On-Posi ... rapy-.html

[racprops]

WOW You sure surpassed my efforts and I wish I had found your thread earlier...

Thanks i will read though it.

Rich

[JohnBFisher]

While it's not perfect, I am *really* glad you are starting to get good sleep. That will help you deal with the pain more than anything. In fact, research shows that lack of sleep intensifies pain. So, once you start getting into the habit of deep sleep, I sure hope you will find it the pain lessens. I know it's tough, but you are doing a great job of learning to maximize your therapy. Keep up the good work!!

[racprops]

It is slow hard work.

But slowly I am gaining on it.

My first sleep cycle lasted almost two hours..I then fell asleep in my recliner for about a hour resting up from the pain for the bed.

I returned to bed and got almost 4 hours more.

My total AHI was 3.41

Rich

PS Went back to bed and got another hour and lowered my final reading to 2.64 AHI

[MagsterMile]

Good for you! Your post is so positive after reading what you've been through and now you're getting some relief.

[JohnBFisher]

Okay, where's the "Like" button .. Your post definitely deserves the use of one!

[caffeinatedcfo]

This is awesome news!

I too experience greater AHI on my back, but I still had severe OSA side-sleeping so either way I'm a hose-head.

[racprops]

ME too, so far, I am sleeping with my ASV machine..only on my side and preventing getting flat on my back.

Rich

[sleepinow]

What IS the best way to prevent from going on the back? I found myself to naturally shift onto my back which makes me wake up until I go back on my side

And awesome racprops, I did mention for you to sleep on your side so I am happy that the pain is not completely unbearable for you

[racprops]

Well in my case I have a long body pillow and I pat it down so it is like a long wedge and set it so when I roll on to my back I end up on it and thus don't get completely flat and in my case it works..

I have seen other call for a tennis or golf ball in a pocket sowed to their backs. That makes they turn back on their sides...

I also think it wakes them up...OUCH

Mine lets me stay asleep and toss and turn as I like.

Rich

[racprops]

One of the reasons I keep posting IS for those that follow me and will want to read up on these problems...

First was learning to use a ASV machine:

I read that my complex apneas is in the 17% range and I have no idea where positional apneas fall but I bet it is less.

Well I am still fighting the battle of a good nights sleep and losing.

I cannot seem to sleep longer than a 1.5 hour.

I am writing this after one such sleep cycle.

Today I will be seeing two Doctors and one will give me a prescription for some pain meds.

Wish me luck and a good nights sleep.

Rich

[racprops]

Success!!

First night that I was able to stay in bed almost all night.

I woke up a few times, I remember about three, BUT only the first one got me up out of bed.

The rest I was able to just shift position and fall back asleep.

So second sleep cycle recorded having lasted 5:15 hours with an AHI of 9.50.

Total sleep time was 7:05 with a total AHI of 10:29.

Now if I can do this again for a couple of days I will then try without any pain relief.

Rich

[racprops]

Well another fair night.

Once again I woke up early, but now I lasted 2:24 hours and had an AHI of 2.50, but again much hip pain…

And I was on my Norco…Darn….

So I got up and stayed up for about an hour and ½ and at that point took a second pill (I was told the “life time” of these are 4 to 6 hours) and I have taken my first pill an hour before bed time so it was 5 hours later.

This worked out so so I had a little stomach distress..

So back to bed and to sleep where I sleep 2:22 minutes with a AHI of .42 where I was awaken by hip pain again..and I then tried different positions, first I tried sleeping flat on my back…I did so for 48 minutes and this caused a AHI reading of 19.95 for that time…

I then tried sleeping on my right side and slept for 55 minutes and got a AHI of 1.09.

I am starting to think I need a new bed, sadly my current one is only a few years old and has a 5 inch memory form top and SHOULD be very good But this hip pain is so strong Norco cannot stop it.

Talk about a catch 22, I need to sleep on my sides but doing so causes such hip pain that I can’t…and sleeping on my back causes major AHIs.

Rich