Going to War with DME again This Morning

[DannyPh]

I received the s9 auto set machine ( which I perceived to be New ) on April 11th, 2013. This morning I was scrolling thru the Lcd screen and I noticed that the Total Run Hours was 471 Hours. I have only used the machine for Nine Days with an average of 10.5 hrs a night. The Lcd screen says that I have used the machine for a total of 100.5 hrs. Am I missing something here ? After all the trouble I have with the local Branch office getting this Machine and then to find out that they brought me a used Machine ! I would hate to check my Blood Pressure right now. I am just waiting for them to open this morning and I am giving them a call and if I don't receive a satisfactory answer and a New Machine I will be on the Phone with the Main Office Again.

[Jimster]

I was told by my DME that CPAP Devices that were brought back to their office by new patients that didn't meet their compliance requirements were just cleaned up and put back on the shelf.

I can see a DME giving a new patient a used Device to see if they were going to stick with their CPAP Therapy, but then once they met their compliance requirements then they should be given a New CPAP Device.

In only makes common sense to put a new patient on a use CPAP Device for them to try out.

Once all of the New Patient's compliance requirements have been met, and they now know whether they want a Respironic's, or a ResMed, etc. Device then they should be handed a Brand New just out of the Box, Up to Date, and Newly Manufactured, Full Dated Device of their Choosing.

I have to admit that my DME has been up front with me on everything coming and going. We have to understand that we are in this for the Long Haul. If our question is not answered today then more than likely it will be answered tomorrow, so no harm done.

I would not except a used Device for Keeps.

Yes take the used Device back to your DME and tell them to hand you a New One.

Let us know how you get along with this, there are limits.

Was your S9 made in Hong Kong?

[Sheriff Buford]

471 hours... in the neighborhood of 80 days (give or take... 2 1/2 months). To me, that's a little more than "used". Danny, its up to you. If it was me, and I spend my life picking my battles... this is borderline.... I would give them a chance to do some 'splaining... then ask for a reduced rate... then... make sure they are forever indebted to you....

Another sad story of DME behavior...

Sheriff

[caffeinatedcfo]

Like the Sheriff said, pick your battles. I would definitely bring it to their attention for an explanation though. I've been up and down (mostly up) with Lincare. My biggest issue with them is they fitted me at their office ... in a chair and without using the ResMed mask sizing guide and only used the low pressure range (the S9 was set to APAP mode, 5-20cm when they fitted me).

[Sheriff Buford]

the S9 was set to APAP mode, 5-20cm when they fitted me.

I'm sure you know this now, but get fitted in the cpap mode with the machine set at your prescribed pressure. A mask may not leak at 5 cm, but can at a higher pressure. Take your pillow, lie down... and roll around. Rolling around causes the mask to leak at night... so simulating those moves at the DME office will indicate if the mask will leak at home.

Sheriff

[LSAT]

471 hours... in the neighborhood of 80 days (give or take... 2 1/2 months). To me, that's a little more than "used". Danny, its up to you. If it was me, and I spend my life picking my battles... this is borderline.... I would give them a chance to do some 'splaining... then ask for a reduced rate... then... make sure they are forever indebted to you....

Another sad story of DME behavior...

Sheriff

Hey Sheriff....Using my hi-tech $3 calculator I figure that 471 hours divided by 8 hours is about 60 days and if 100 of those 471 hours belong to Danny...there are only 371 hours divided by 8 or about 46 days unaccounted for.

[caffeinatedcfo]

I'm sure you know this now, but get fitted in the cpap mode with the machine set at your prescribed pressure. A mask may not leak at 5 cm, but can at a higher pressure. Take your pillow, lie down... and roll around. Rolling around causes the mask to leak at night... so simulating those moves at the DME office will indicate if the mask will leak at home.

Sheriff

Yes I know this now. Unfortunately, I haven't had my titration yet and was a newbie with the DME.

[Pugsy]

Total run hours also includes the cool down time period after the machine is turned off in the AM.
Cool down is not reflected in therapy hours though.

[DannyPh]

Like LSAT said 371 Hrs is not that Big of I Deal I suppose but it is the Principal of the thing that the DME brought me a used Machine and Believe me I am going to let them know that I know on Monday when they open. Then I will see what their response is. It is the Local Branch that is doing this and I am almost Positive that if I call the Main Office I will have a New machine with No Run Hours delivered. The question is should I demand a new Machine of just keep the one I Have ?

[Al N]

Like LSAT said 371 Hrs is not that Big of I Deal I suppose but it is the Principal of the thing that the DME brought me a used Machine and Believe me I am going to let them know that I know on Monday when they open. Then I will see what their response is. It is the Local Branch that is doing this and I am almost Positive that if I call the Main Office I will have a New machine with No Run Hours delivered. The question is should I demand a new Machine of just keep the one I Have ?

I agree it's the principal. Probably wont make much difference in the life of the machine. However I've seen posted on here many times how much the value of the machine depreciates once you put the first hours. I don't believe it's yours or anyone else's responsability to take the loss for someone else not following through with therapy. I would agree with using a used machine for a brief period of time to verify compliance. If they were honest and upfront about it. Selling a used machine at a used price is in no way honest and upfront. I also agree with picking and choosing battles. Obviously your choice, my choice however would be to make them explain and make it right. IMO.

[DannyPh]

That is my Intentions . I want them to explain to me why they brought me a Used machine instead of the New machine like my script was written for . Then I will demand that they make it right and bring me a New Machine.

[Sheffey]

I would not accept a used Device

If I understand it correctly, these DMEs send out a lot of machines to patients who flunk on compliance and the machines come back to the DME with only a fraction of the cost recouped (one month rental?). So here you have all these machines and the cost needs to be recouped or else the DMEs will have to start charging all of us higher prices for new machines. I don't think we want that.

Now we all talk about "used" and "new" machines. Believing in truth-in-labeling, maybe the industry needs to have three categories: new/demo/used (maybe "used" no longer exists) and be open about it with doctors/DMEs/insurance companies/patients.

But Danny, I am not trying to tell you what to do.

[Jimster]

DannyPh I checked the Government's Code for a CPAP device and found that it was EO601. I couldn't find were there was any other numbers or letters attached to their Code Number. I thought that when the government paid for a CPAP Device they might want to see a serial number so they wouldn't have to pay for the same machine over and over.

I would think that if your insurance company is paying for your CPAP Device as soon as they hand it to you then certainly you should get a New Machine. If the government is involved in your purchase you then have to meet with compliance criteria and there you can give the Device back to the DME with no charge to you. (That’s what I was told by my DME.) In that case I could see a DME giving out a used device. It would be silly to have 30 or 40 devices setting around with only 1 or 2 months of service time on them.

If the Device that you have now was purchased by you with or without your insurance company then yes a new machine is called for no question. In anything that we buy there is always an applied understanding between a buyer and a seller. That's why we have new cars on the new car lot and used cars on the used car lot.

On top of all of this if your new to you device would break within let's say the first two years, the first thing that your insurance company would ask you "How Old is this Device". Did you buy it new or used? I'm not sure that any insurance company would treat you in that manner, but the ones that I have dealt with certainly would.

Anyway the word that I should have used in my initial reply to you on this subject should have been "accept" and not "except". (I see "Sheffey" has already beat me to my mistake.)

Good Luck in getting a new machine.

[Kate M]

If I understand it correctly, these DMEs send out a lot of machines to patients who flunk on compliance and the machines come back to the DME with only a fraction of the cost recouped (one month rental?). So here you have all these machines and the cost needs to be recouped or else the DMEs will have to start charging all of us higher prices for new machines. I don't think we want that.

Hi, I am new here, and this is my first post. I am happy to have found this thread as I will be getting my machine next week and I will know to watch for this! I am not so sure about the cost of rental vs purchase. I have asked for that data from my DME company because I am renting an oxygen concentrator for over $400.00 a month and can buy that same model for approx $800.00 online. The "fraction" of the cost in this case is 1/2! Two months and they recoup the price. I imagine they have a lower price that they pay as well. I would hesitate to give them the benefit of any doubt at all, which is why I am waiting for the pricing from them before going to some other DMEs and being prepared to walk away and buy online.

[StuUnderPressure]

Total Run Hours was 471 Hours. I have only used the machine for Nine Days with an average of 10.5 hrs a night. The Lcd screen says that I have used the machine for a total of 100.5 hrs.

Even if you add in the cooling down period for 9 days at a max of 1 Hour per day, you still have used it only 109.5 hours. That still leaves 361.5 hours unaccounted for.

361.5 divided by your average use of 10.5 hours per night + 1 Hour of cooling down = 31.4734782 nights unaccounted for (Roughly 1 month).

"I" would never accept a used machine.
It is not only the fact that it was used, it is also the fact that it was used by someone else. Yes, they supposedly CAN adequately clean them. The Question is DID they adequately clean it?

When I buy a new machine, I make it abundantly clear to the DME that I want & will only accept a new machine.

Then, when I go to pick up the machine, I check the "Run Hours" to be sure I am getting a new machine. If a machine had any Run Hours on it, I would not leave the DME with it. It is always easier to get them to give you a new machine if you never accept the used one to begin with.