battery power?

[Burkebang]

I know many places have unreliable power, so I certainly see the need for many people to have good backup systems. Feel free to use what you wish in my post.

The thing with actually running the battery down to half charge, is that it not only "cycles" and keeps the battery in good condition, but you'll also find out and hopefully before you need it, if the battery is failing.

[avi123]

delete, something wrong with posting in the night

[avi123]

Ditto

[avi123]

ditto

[avi123]

ditto

[avi123]

ditto

[avi123]

ditto

[avi123]

ditto

[avi123]

ditto

[BudSky]

Itchy clicky finger?

Yes- most any rechargeable battery system will need preventive maintenance

[Guest]

...

Glad you're anonymously posting ... You gain SO MUCH credibility with the forum for being so open and forthright.

why are you offended about someone who is willing to offer another option to what you are offering? and is willing to do it without getting any credit for it?
insecure? ...

... no one has attacked your design ...

From just a couple replies ago, you wrote:

... so who here thinks that ordering all the stuff is easier than buying something plug n play off the shelf? ...

Damned by your own words.

so you consider that an attack on the design?
do you think these readers are truly so dumb they wont figure out that all those parts cost more?
then have to be assembled by someone?

then you conviently forgot the rest of the quote

so who here thinks that ordering all the stuff is easier than buying something plug n play off the shelf?
and then also believes that taking all these parts to someone you have to pay will in fact cost you less?
if you are bringing electrical parts to an auto mechanic to assemble
you just might have more than osa

... a jump starter battery is off the shelf, will do the job, and cost less
it comes with all the right parts
the power outlets, ac & dc, the charger, the regulator, even usb outlets to charge phones etc.
all assembled and with a carry handle to use in other places in the home or camping
all user will need is a right power cord to fit their machine ...

And it is NOT designed for a protracted drain on the battery. Neither a jumpstart battery nor a computer UPS are designed for a protracted drain on the battery. A battery that is not designed for a protracted drain will die under that load. Worse yet, a protracted drain on batteries that are not designed for that load will cause them to vent hydrogen and thus become a danger to their user.

As with any tool, you get the right tools and parts for the job at hand.

... to my way of think it is a much easier approach for those who dont think they can build their own or simply dont have the time or the desire ... when it comes to backup power there is post called "another battery option" which like it or not does have a lot of useful information ...

Yes. It has useful information. But the conclusion that a jumpstart battery is ideal for CPAP use just ignores the risk of improper load on the battery. And in this case the load is not the voltage amps. It's the fact that it must last for hours and hours and hours - sometimes over several days.

Does that mean it won't work? No. It will. But it increases risks. And I *know* most people do not understand those risks. It is poorly understood risks which increases the dangers. If you understand risks, you can plan for them and avoid possible problems. Most people simply do not understand risks involved with batteries. As I've noted that's why I put so much thought into my design. I don't give a flip if anyone says "Thanks". I just want a design that helps others be as safe as possible. So, if anyone provides information that shows the proper parts and tools for the workload, I'm all in favor of it. But a "jumpstart" battery is not the proper tool for a deep cycle workload.

your design can and will create more fumes than any jump starter on the market simply because it is larger and contains more water
being larger doesnt make it better or more ideal for everyone unless of course you live in a jungle where there is no ac power ever
so dont mislead the very people you claim you are trying to help
any battery can emit fumes any battery and your is not some specially designed battery

and as your new found friend clearly stated

So I'm very happy having only a jumpstarter with a well tended 19 AH battery as backup and for starting dead cars

yet you failed to quote that on your other thread

it does serve more than a cpap purpose
and consider not everyone has your needs and stop trying to use the archyangle scare tactics
but even he agrees that a jumpstarter battery wont create fumes worth the worry
and can serve a purpose to get cpap users by until their ac power is restored

which should be the bottom line on a friendly cpap forum

[Rise]

It's unfortunate this thread is such a disaster. I hesitate to add fuel to the fire but if it's helpful to anyone still confused, John has clearly done his homework and Archangel is clearly familiar with the technology.

I've lived off the grid for quite a few years and currently own half a ton of deep cycle batteries connected to a whole-house inverter and modest solar array. Installing and maintaining it all myself doesn't make me an expert but I have a working knowledge. Truthfully, from a practical level for an application of the size under discussion here, it's not all that complicated.

I wouldn't put a large battery bank in my bedroom but wouldn't hesitate to keep a battery or small bank sized for a few days of xpap. As mentioned, AGM is somewhat more expensive than flooded but can't spill. Personally I would go with that for home use but flooded is certainly viable. If I had gel cells, I'd use those without hesitation. All the battery technologies have their pros and cons, primarily trading energy density for cost. LI would be nice for travel, bus as was mentioned, it has its trade offs.

As Archangel summarized, don't short it out and use an appropriate charger and it's very unlikely to hurt you.

Unfortunately no perfect choice, but certainly several safe viable options.

[Burkebang]

I cannot understand why anybody could see any problems with having a battery in their bedrom. Be it a jumpstarter, a modern AGM battery or an old fashioned 180 AH open acid filled deep cycle battery. Modern batterys hardly produces any gasses at all, specially with the low power consuption of a CPAP. Recharging will also be done during the daytime, so even if any gasses where produced then, it's no problem at all and certainly no health or fire risk. Battery tenders also use very low charge current, so little or no gasses are produced by having a battery on tender.

The fumes batterys can produce is mostly hydrogen, which is not toxic. There is no way to produce enough to make the air in a bedroom flammable. Some batterys (like the one in my caravan) also has a hose to be able to vent any fumes out of the room. A small hole in the wall for an extension to this hose should be more than enough to satisfy anybody concerned with fumes.

Everybody should assess their own situation and get a backup system that will cover them for a realistic worst case scenario. For me, it's a multipurpose jumpstarter. For those that require more power, if they choose to follow JohnBFishers advice, they can rest assured of having a completely safe backup system. Once assembled, there is no chance of even toddlers or foggy hoseheads getting hurt

[Guest]

Everybody should assess their own situation and get a backup system that will cover them for a realistic worst case scenario. For me, it's a multipurpose jumpstarter.

thank you for that independent voice of reason
you have said what i have been trying to say but because i am a "guest" it seems that some here consider me to be stupid
so coming from a registered member maybe some can understand that not everyone want to brew their own beer
each of us is different and some need another option

said another way

Unfortunately no perfect choice, but certainly several safe viable options.

[archangle]

You CAN make a battery do bad things. Therefore, the manufacturers put CYA warnings on them.

They are nasty if you spill the acid, if stuff leaks out and you get it on you, if you abusively overcharge them, if you short them out, if you put enough of them in a sufficiently airtight enclosure, etc.

Unfortunately, with the lawyers these days, a 1 in a million chance of danger gets the same warning as a 1 in 100 danger. It seems like everything these days has a warning "This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm." Unfortunately, the chemical may be a lead connector that won't hurt you unless you open the box and chew on the circuit board, or it may be some like a toxic cleaner that will hurt you if misused.

There are a whole lot of battery solutions. They're pretty much all compromises.

AGM and Gel cells are better in a lot of ways, but cost more. If you're carrying it around a lot, the spill factor is a big advantage. If it sits in one place, and you are willing to use appropriate care, the cost savings may be worth it to you. Lithium batteries are smaller, but more expensive, and may die suddenly on you. A jumper battery is easy to buy, carry, and move, but gives you fewer hours.

A good generator system is best of all in some ways, but costs money, requires maintenance, gasoline fuel doesn't store well, gasoline may be hard to get at times, etc. Use the generator wrong and it will kill you or the guy working on the power lines. Or your neighbors may kill you for running it at night.

If cost were no object, I'd have a whole house solar system with a bank of storage batteries with a ventilation system, but we're talking 10s of thousands of dollars. Plus yearly maintenance costs, plus cutting down the trees around my house. I'd probably have a few different portable backup systems for travel.

Any of these systems may fail you when you need them. Any of them may not last long enough. All of them require expense and maintenance. All of them have some danger involved.

You can buy or set up any of these systems and they will help you through certain situations. You're better off with them than without them.

If you buy a cheap jumper battery system, you'll be really glad if it powers you though several 4 hour power outages in a year. If you get a longer outage, you will wish you had a bigger battery.

Don't obsess about getting "THE" correct battery system. Get a backup system if it's worth it to you, and realize it has some limits and takes certain effort and cost on your part to make it work.