12 years on cpap and it's time to move on.

[deltadave]

As noted in another thread, it is the arousals that cause EDS. Arousal Index (AI), can be equated to to AHI values when quantifying severity, and again target is <5.0.

Using the aforementioned study, we see that



and although the results sound impressive, put into context, this modality certainly has a ways to go.

I mean, look at the posters who come in here with residual AHI of 24.7 and they are like

"OMIGOD MY AHI IS 24.7 ON SYSPAPS9 WHATEVER AND I'M GONNA DIE NOW NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.............!!!"

[debtheveg]

Calm down Deltadave, no-one is twisting your arm to make YOU have one inserted, so don't get your knickers in a knot!!!

If you'd read my posts, you would have seen that yes, at least with the Apnex trials there is a control group, so I imagine the same with Corky's one.

[deltadave]

And did you SEE this?!



In order to get that thing in there

THEY HAVE TO TAKE YOUR !*#%ING NECK APART!!

That Swift FX is lookin' better and better right about now.

[Therapist]

Not a time for calming down!

I'll keep my CPAP and my AHI less than 3.0.

[corky]

My neck is healing great!

[Goofproof]

Mine still doesn't need healing, XPAP hasn't cut it, and my AHI is under two, all with a little air pressure. Jim

[debtheveg]

Good to hear Corky!

As for the photos, I'm sure a simple tonsillectomy would look just as gory! I've had four caesareans and I bet if I had seen a video of my firstborn's operation, he may well have been an only child!!

I really don't know what your point is in showing all of this. Corky has already been through it and others, like myself, if motivated enough, will not be put off by your stupid graphs and pics, so give it a rest!!

[deltadave]

I really don't know what your point is in showing all of this. Corky has already been through it and others, like myself, if motivated enough, will not be put off by your stupid graphs and pics, so give it a rest!!

Begging your pardon, but all the stupid graphs and pics are from peer-reviewed medical journals and/or materials provided by Apnex Medical themselves.

Do you have any objective data to offer in this discussion? You behave more like an Amway (ooops! I mean "Apnex") salesperson.

I think I'll be hesitating to post anything further for fear of attacks and criticism.

Hypocrite.

Speaking of peer-reviewed medical journals, did you notice how virtually every author is on the Apnex payroll?

Ya think they're getting a little nervous?

Where's My Money?

Coming Up Next: Why gender is never mentioned in the studies.

[deltadave]

25,000 DOLLARS!!!

Yeah, I can see CMS and the insurers paying that.

Hoo-boy, did those VCs get taken to the cleaners...

[deltadave]

I'm sure a simple tonsillectomy would look just as gory!!

As (almost) everything knows, there is no such thing as a "simple" tonsillectomy.

Although the procedure has been practiced for literally hundreds of years, the incidence of death in tonsillectomy is 1 in 15,000.

That tongue zapper (if approved) will be on the market till the first carotid gets nicked, and then you'll be able to pick them up on eBay for about a buck three-eighty.

[debtheveg]

Nothing hypocritical about it! I was referring to POSSIBLY not posting in a couple of weeks, once I have been seen by the doctors performing the trials.

Yes, of course you could die getting your tonsils out ... you can die drinking water, too! So???

The stupidity of the graphs and pictures is in the act of YOU putting them on the forum. For all your time and trouble, I guarantee they are not persuading one person either way. Those who are open to the idea of a new and innovative procedure, will still be! If you don't like the idea of it, then you don't need photos to put you off.

You quite clearly would not use or do anything other than your cpap ... so go to bed and use it and stop getting involved where you're not welcome. Corky simply let us know what he has done and a lot of us are interested. We really would rather not have you interjecting! As I said before, I really do not see what you are trying to achieve. For the last time, spelling it out very clearly so you understand: CORKY HAS HAD THE OPERATION ALREADY AND, IF ACCEPTED, I WILL BE PROCEEDING WITH THE OPERATION. NO AMOUNT OF GRAPHS OR PHOTOGRAPHS (which, incidentally, I didn't actually look at) ARE GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING!!! OKAY???

[Sleep2Die4]

As noted in another thread, it is the arousals that cause EDS. Arousal Index (AI), can be equated to to AHI values when quantifying severity, and again target is <5.0.

Using the aforementioned study, we see that



and although the results sound impressive, put into context, this modality certainly has a ways to go.

I mean, look at the posters who come in here with residual AHI of 24.7 and they are like

"OMIGOD MY AHI IS 24.7 ON SYSPAPS9 WHATEVER AND I'M GONNA DIE NOW NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.............!!!"

Thanks for shedding some light on this. I am way too old for the procedure but I do have grandchildren and great grandchildren and I talk to many younger people.

I will never mention this device and if it comes up I will issue strong cautions.

[Starlette]

@DeltaDave - Can you explain the meaning of your graph (Arousal Index - Colored Blue) please? If I'm understanding it correctly, a person with let's say 45 AHI, is reduced to 25 AHI 3 months later is that correct? What is not clear is where this data is coming from: someone who is on xpap, using no therapy or after having procedure done. Where did you get this graph from?

If my thinking is correct (this is data with someone on xpap), this is still not good odds on the procedure. 25 AHI would still require a person to be on xpap. Keeping in mind that we want AHI to be 5 AHI or below. What's more concerning is there is a 3 month lag to even see that kind of reduction in events. I don't think I'm expecting too much, but for me to EVEN consider doing this procedure, I would expect my AHI to be less than 5 AHI within at best 2 weeks after the procedure, ideally 1 week.

Lastly, one of the blips in one of the articles posted i read is that they're looking for subjects that cannot comply with xpap. Like my sleep technician stated, "cpap works for those who make it work."

Starlette

[Pugsy]

While a 50% reduction in apnea events is better than nothing, I guess it is up to the individual and their doctor if they expect to be satisfied with such an outcome. Might work great with 50% of a precpap AHI of 20 or less and not so great with precap of 60 AHI. Just going on how I felt when I first started therapy (precap AHI 53 mainly in REM) and reduced to 8 to 10 AHI initially (I still felt like total crap and no symptom relief perceived) 50% wouldn't be nearly good enough for me.
Though I suppose technically....that 8 to 10 AHI was still a considerable reduction when compared to pre cpap. Better than nothing I suppose on paper but based on how I felt....worthless. I want to "feel" better and not just "look better on paper".

In non REM sleep my AHI was a measly 12....now if that was all I ever had...50% reduction might be sufficient but with my REM events..no way would I be pleased with 50% reduction.

[Starlette]

I agree, 49er! I'm sure Corky doesn't need us to be speaking for him, but it's hard to sit back and see him attacked when all he is doing is telling us of this new and, potentially, life-changing surgery. I would have thought most people on this forum would be keenly interested and supportive but obviously not everyone. However, some of us are, so please keep us posted, Corky.

I go to Sydney in two weeks for a thorough medical and a sleep study to see if I fit the criteria to continue. I think I'll be hesitating to post anything further for fear of attacks and criticism.

Good morning Deb:
I cannot agree with you here. I would be MUCH more supportive if I had SOMETHING to grab ahold of information wise. Here lies my (and for the most part the forum's frustration). We have nothing !!! For me to agree with you I would need the following information:
What was AHI before and after sleep study?
What was he titrated at?
What is his machine and mask?
What part of therapy was not working for him?
He's refused to answer these kind of questions. How can any thinking adult make a sound decision either way on gross lack of information and short sentence responses???

It's not a matter of being nosey. It's a matter of giving us sound data to compare, he's given zero. The paragraph he did give us doesn't count for solid data. Therefore, MAJOR scepticism! It's my hope to that if you're really considering this procedure Deb that you can fill in the blanks for us (my questions as a starter) so at least we/the forum have some solid information to stand on. For me, it's not enough to know about scientific advancement which I'm all for, but also to look at current data. The only way I (and others on the forum) would even consider doing this is if I had solid information/data before and after from a fellow cpaper(s).

Starlette