Horrible experience

[robysue]

allenc3,

A lot of this skepticism would be avoided if they would just GIVE everyone a copy of their lab report instead of waiting until you ASK for it.

Ain't that the truth?

It still makes no sense to me why we have to request, sometimes multiple times, the written copy of our sleep studys---complete with the summary data itself.

[NeverAgain]

The sleep test was terrible, and I made the mistake of letting them talk me into a bipap. It goes back tomorrow, after 1 night. I was awake every 30 minutes. At 2:30 AM, I gave up because I was wide awake. Best part is that when I phoned to make arrangements to send back this torture device, I was told that I need a prescription to NOT use it. I phoned the insurance company... why should they pay, and I pay a copay, or something that is useless and I refuse to use. They told me that if the physician won't take it back, I'm to file an appeal.

At least before, I slept about 6 hour s/night, and woke up feeling more rested than I did with this machine. When they said the quality of my sleep would change dramatically, I thought that statement meant IMPROVE.

I've been convinced from the first test that it is all a gimmick. Each experience reinforces my belief.

What is this GARBAGE that 4-6 hours of sleep is too little? Never would have been able to hold down a full time real job and do grad school if I needed lots of sleep. I don't fall asleep while driving, and or have ANY OTHER SYMPTOM other than this bogus lab testing. Doctor even told me he had NEVER seen someone function so well. Maybe I function well because my 4-6 hours is ok?

[Guest]

"I wish I was not such a skeptic, but at this point, the whole Sleep Apnea CPAP thing just doesn't pass the smell test. One day Medicare or some other agency is going to probably start looking at some of these diagnoses to see if they are all really justified."



They already do. There are very specific guidelines to be diagnosed with OSA.

[chunkyfrog]

One night is not enough time to learn how to make this work.
We know you are frustrated and angry; but you need to get over these feelings to make the machine work for you.

[idamtnboy]

The sleep test was terrible, and I made the mistake of letting them talk me into a bipap. It goes back tomorrow, after 1 night. I was awake every 30 minutes. At 2:30 AM, I gave up because I was wide awake. Best part is that when I phoned to make arrangements to send back this torture device, I was told that I need a prescription to NOT use it. I phoned the insurance company... why should they pay, and I pay a copay, or something that is useless and I refuse to use. They told me that if the physician won't take it back, I'm to file an appeal.

At least before, I slept about 6 hour s/night, and woke up feeling more rested than I did with this machine. When they said the quality of my sleep would change dramatically, I thought that statement meant IMPROVE.

I've been convinced from the first test that it is all a gimmick. Each experience reinforces my belief.

What is this GARBAGE that 4-6 hours of sleep is too little? Never would have been able to hold down a full time real job and do grad school if I needed lots of sleep. I don't fall asleep while driving, and or have ANY OTHER SYMPTOM other than this bogus lab testing. Doctor even told me he had NEVER seen someone function so well. Maybe I function well because my 4-6 hours is ok?

NeverAgain, you are in absolute denial. You would have NEVER been referred for a sleep study if the doctor hadn't seen evidence of some sort that you do in fact suffer from sleep apnea. Do a search in this forum on first night. You'll quickly find out just how common your very own experience really is. You are in no way unique in your poor first night's experience. Rethink this whole thing, especially your rationale and your denial. Give it at least 3 to 4 months before stating unequivocally you don't need a CPAP. Make a God honest effort to comply and adapt, and if you still feel the same after 4 months come back and let's discuss it. At that point you will have established real credibility and if you decide to quit, we will accept it. We probably won't agree with you, but we'll accept your decision.

[NeverAgain]

It goes back today. I do not nap during the day, do not fall asleep unexpectedly, etc. I am not condemning myself to a life of 30 minute naps and sleeping with a PAINFUL mask. Told the tech it hurt, and my protests were ignored.

I truly believe that for most people it's a bogus diagnosis designed to get money for the insurance company and the company that makes them, not to mention the doctor. It's like ADD and ADH... a few people actually have it, and the rest of the diagnoses are convenient.

The doctor seems to be the only person who thinks 4-6 hours of sleep isn't enough. As I said, I have NO other symptoms of this supposed disease, other than some sleep lab test.

After pneumonia, I was referred to a pulmonologist who suggest this bogus study at their sleep lab (another reason to doubt the entire thing). I also have RA and was diagnosed as insulin intolerant. OF COURSE the problem will resolve. He was rather shocked any action was being taken. Family doctor and rheumatologist were also skeptical, as I have NO OTHER SYMPTOMS than the sleep test.

For those of you who really have a problem, and it works, great. For other people, BE SKEPTICAL and seek the advice of other medical professionals you see regularly. When EVERY OTHER physician you see thinks it a bad idea, LISTEN.

[NeverAgain]

Part of my post went missing. After the insulin intolerance diagnosis, I opted for gastric bypass surgery as opposed to a life of medicine. The surgeon was shocked anything was being done because as the weight I've gained from orthopedic surgeries and the insulin intolerance comes off, the problem should resolve. He thought the entire thing a waste of time.

[NateS]

Part of my post went missing. After the insulin intolerance diagnosis, I opted for gastric bypass surgery as opposed to a life of medicine. The surgeon was shocked anything was being done because as the weight I've gained from orthopedic surgeries and the insulin intolerance comes off, the problem should resolve. He thought the entire thing a waste of time.

Are you and allenc3 the same person using two different names here, or two different people?

If you are two different people, I am wondering why you "NeverAgain" chose to post under someone else's thread? Just wondering.

Did you say you have elected to have gastric bypass surgery?

Which surgeon was shocked? What was he/she shocked about? What was being done? Which problem should resolve? What entire thing was a waste of time?

Your posts are so confusing - I apologize if it seems obvious to you what you meant to say.

Nate

[robysue]

Like NateS,

I'm confused as to whether "NeverAgain" and allenc3 are the same person or not.

And I'm confused as to what NeverAgain's whole issue is---beyond an adamant insistence that there is no way NeverAgain could possibly ever have OSA and therefor, in a leap of illogical reasoning that defies the mind, the whole OSA/CPAP stuff is a sham and we the folks who have learned how to sleep with this machine AND benefit from it are all somehow suckers ....

I'm also confused on these issues:

How does orthopedic surgery lead to weight gain????? How does orthopedic surgery lead to enough weight gain to qualify for gastric bypass surgery????

Why would any doctor OK gastric bypass surgery as the primary treatment for insulin intolerance????? Or, as seems reasonable, is the hope that gastric bypass surgery will likely positively affect the insulin intolerance problem as a side benefit to its real purpose of helping NeverAgain lose a tremendous amount of weight that he's been unable to lose through diet, exercise, and other lifestyle changes?????

I write the rest of this not so much for NeverAgain's benefit: He seems determined to wallow in a pool of self denial on several medical issues.

I write the rest of this because it is rather probable that other folks contemplating gastric bypass surgery who have been required to undergo a PSG to test for OSA will stumble on our little forum and NeverAgain's posts. And I felt that it best to make sure there was a response with responsible links pointing to the necessity of not denying the OSA problem if it was discovered in the testing required to qualify for gastric bypass surgery.

Gastric Bypass surgery is serious stuff. And the criteria to qualify for gastric bypass surgery are pretty stringent. According to http://www.webmd.com/diet/weight-loss-s ... ric-bypass,

Weight-loss surgery is suitable for people who are severely overweight and who have not been able to lose weight with diet, exercise, or medicine.

Surgery is generally considered when your body mass index (BMI) is 40 or higher. Surgery may also be an option when your BMI is 35 or higher and you have a life-threatening or disabling problem that is related to your weight, such as type 2 diabetes that is difficult to control with diet, exercise, and medicine.

It is important to think of this surgery as a tool to help you lose weight. It is not an instant fix. You will still need to eat a healthy diet and get regular exercise. This will help you reach your weight goal and avoid regaining the weight you lose.

To put this in perspective: I am 5'1" tall. In order for me to have a BMI of 40, I would need to weigh at least 211 pounds, almost twice what I currently weigh (107 lb). A man of averagish height---let's say 5' 10'' would have to weigh 278 pounds to have a BMI of 40. Of course some folks qualify for gastric bypass surgery because they have a comorbid condition such as type 2 diabetes (that is typically not well controlled) AND and a BMI of 35 to qualify for gastric bypass surgery. A man of average height (5'10") would need to weigh about 243 pounds to have a BMI = 35.

And morbid obesity is a prime risk factor for OSA. Even when the person seemingly has no apparent symptoms of OSA. (And while the corrolation between OSA and obesity is clear, the causation aspect is not well understood: In some folks, the OSA predates the weight gain and may lead to the weight gain; in others, the weight gain may trigger the OSA.)

Moreover, it's known that gastric bypass patients with UNTREATED OSA have much higher complication and mortality rates than those without OSA or those with treated OSA. Hence most surgeons who perform gastric bypass surgery will not perform it until after a patient has been screened for OSA and, if the sleep test is positive, the surgeon may require proof that the person is indeed compliant with CPAP therapy for several weeks or months before scheduling the surgery in order to minimize the increased risks of the surgery. And this is true even when the hope is that the patient's OSA will be reduced or eliminated by the significant weight loss from the surgery, the surgeon will still insist on treating the OSA with CPAP before the surgery. (For example see http://www.1gastricbypass.com/osa.htm, http://voices.yahoo.com/obstructive-sle ... 18849.html, and http://www.nursingcenter.com/library/Jo ... _ID=594215 for example).

And so gastric bypass surgery, while it is a godsend for many of the folks who undergo it, is not for the faint of heart or for those who are looking for quick fixes: It is significant surgery that carries the risk of serious complications---particularly for those with untreated OSA. The diet restrictions on the folks who undergo this surgery last for life. While the types of food the patient is allowed to eat (long term) may not be overly restricted, the quantity of food that can be eaten at any one meal remains restricted for life. And because of what's actually done to you in gastric bypass surgery, you have a lifelong commitment to making extra sure that your (small) meals contain the proper minerals and vitamins in sufficient quantities:

In a gastric bypass, the part of the intestine where many minerals and vitamins are most easily absorbed is bypassed. Because of this, you may have a deficiency in iron, calcium, magnesium, or vitamins. This can lead to long-term problems, such as osteoporosis. To prevent vitamin and mineral deficiencies, you may need to work with a dietitian to plan meals, and you may need to take extra vitamin B12.

[JointPain]

Gastric bypass sounds very similar to what my father got after he was diagnosed with stomach cancer. His life afterwards was exactly as robysue described. Why anyone would voluntarily undergo such a procedure is beyond my comprehension. And thinking that that is better than CPAP?? Utterly crazy.

[allenc3]

No, I am not neveragain, but he seems to have had a simular experience as I had.

I have not been back yet for the Doc visit to see what he suggests (will do that Monday).

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I was refereed to the Sleep Doc as part of a pre-surgical clearance for a Lapband procedure. I have been healthy all of my life, but the extra weight I am carrying around is beginning to take it's tole on my knees so I am doing something about it. Of all the unpleasant medical procedures I have subjected myself to for clarence, (Endoscopy X2, Colonoscopy, Stress Echo) this sleep thing has been to most unpleasant, and seemingly to me anyway, unnessary.

I see most of the people here on this forum are true believers, almost to a point of a pseudo religion, like Scientology. They too have Machines (E-Meters) and Techs (Auditors) and even have there studies (Audits) videotaped and stored in a personal life file. Of course, I don't think you could get Medicare to pay for that.

Will see what happens Monday.

Claude Allen MT(ASCP)SBB

[Cillamom]

Your experience sounds so much like mine. No one seemed able to explain the procedure or provide adequate teaching about CPAP. I've been through a sleep study and titration study at two different sleep labs. I am an RN and skeptical of what seems like an industry that has grown beyond any quality assurance. I am also a military spouse. A nurse at the base clinic made note that EVERY patient they send to a civilian sleep lab comes back with CPAP. Hhmmmm. I told the pulmonologist I couldn't tolerate the CPAP due to aerophagia and instead of further evaluation and assessment she asked,"what do you want me to do? " as if to say this is the end of the line. That spoke volumes to me of her limited knowledge of this therapy. I am left to seek out answers on my own. I have since had an extremely helpful visit with a dentist specializing in oral appliances and am awaiting being fitted for a device. Stats say 85% of oral appliance users have long term compliance and satisfaction.

[49er]

Your experience sounds so much like mine. No one seemed able to explain the procedure or provide adequate teaching about CPAP. I've been through a sleep study and titration study at two different sleep labs. I am an RN and skeptical of what seems like an industry that has grown beyond any quality assurance. I am also a military spouse. A nurse at the base clinic made note that EVERY patient they send to a civilian sleep lab comes back with CPAP. Hhmmmm. I told the pulmonologist I couldn't tolerate the CPAP due to aerophagia and instead of further evaluation and assessment she asked,"what do you want me to do? " as if to say this is the end of the line. That spoke volumes to me of her limited knowledge of this therapy. I am left to seek out answers on my own. I have since had an extremely helpful visit with a dentist specializing in oral appliances and am awaiting being fitted for a device. Stats say 85% of oral appliance users have long term compliance and satisfaction.

I feel like my diagnosis is legitimate but like you, I am very angry about the treatment I have received. I went to my doctor for help this week since I was having trouble adjusting to cpap treatment and was essentially left to fend for myself.

It is no wonder that people give up on this treatment.

Wow, your doctor couldn't provide you tips on dealing with the aerophagia? That says it all.

Please keep us posted about the success of your oral appliance.

Thanks

49er

[NateS]

No, I am not neveragain, but he seems to have had a simular experience as I had.

I have not been back yet for the Doc visit to see what he suggests (will do that Monday).

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I was refereed to the Sleep Doc as part of a pre-surgical clearance for a Lapband procedure. I have been healthy all of my life, but the extra weight I am carrying around is beginning to take it's tole on my knees so I am doing something about it. Of all the unpleasant medical procedures I have subjected myself to for clarence, (Endoscopy X2, Colonoscopy, Stress Echo) this sleep thing has been to most unpleasant, and seemingly to me anyway, unnessary.

I see most of the people here on this forum are true believers, almost to a point of a pseudo religion, like Scientology. They too have Machines (E-Meters) and Techs (Auditors) and even have there studies (Audits) videotaped and stored in a personal life file. Of course, I don't think you could get Medicare to pay for that.

Will see what happens Monday.

Claude Allen MT(ASCP)SBB

Yes, and both of you apparently are having a lap band procedure, which is an operation prescribed to treat a primary diagnosis of morbid obesity not sleep apnea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastric_bypass

Both of you are being asked to have a brief flirtation with the treatment of your secondary diagnosis of sleep apnea, and a few months on CPAP, as a prelude to your lap band surgery:

Why a sleep study to find OSA is sometimes required before gastric bypass

Because sleep apnea is such a common condition among obese patients of all ages and genders, many obesity clinics require a sleep study for all patients during the workup for bariatric surgery. If the condition is found to be present, patients will be asked to be treated with a C-PAP machine for several months prior to surgery.

Post-gastric bypass patients will be closely monitored if they continue to use the C-PAP machine, because the increased airway pressure could risk the integrity of the surgical site. The new smaller stomach pouch could fill with air at high pressure, causing complications. Some obesity centers will restrict the use of the machine after surgery for this reason. Once the patient has lost weight, the symptoms of sleep apnea will usually go away, and further treatment for the OSA is no longer needed. http://www.1gastricbypass.com/osa.htm

Neither of you explained the secondary nature of your sleep apnea diagnosis nor the temporary nature of your need for a CPAP machine ("several months") but instead wrote up your struggles with CPAP and skepticism of sleep apnea as if you were facing a lifetime of CPAP treatment like most of the forum members here, and forum members responded with an outflowing of encouragement and support. If you will do a search of all posts under your names and responses in this and other threads, you will see that forum members took literally several hours of their time and effort to encourage and support you as if you, like us, were being advised to undertake CPAP treatment for the duration of your life.

So it seems more than a bit unkind to now refer to all those whom you misled, perhaps inadvertently, as fanatics embracing a "pseudo religion," don't you think? Like you, each of us here also struggled with the mental and emotional anguish of having to wear a mask and be hooked up to a machine all night. Unlike you, for the rest of us it is not merely for "several months" only as a prelude to surgery but for a lifetime.

If you can't handle and choose to reject a couple or three months on CPAP before your surgery, that's really between you and your lap band surgeon. Why attack those here who simply tried to support and encourage you?

[allenc3]

Well, did not mean to upset anyone. Kind of proves my point though. True believers (religion, politics, environmentists, etc.) may well take offence if someone just simply disagrees.

Also, I am not having a Gastic Bypass. The Lapband procedure does not require any bypass surgery. It is a band that is placed around the top of the stomach. The Lapband is adjustable via a saline port that is placed just under the skin. Saline is added or removed until an ideal range is reached. This is somewhere between not being able to eat much at all to almost being able to eat the same as before the procedure.

again, my apologies to those I have offended.

Claude