Neti Pot Death

[chunkyfrog]

I grew up drinking raw milk; have raw eggs in my smoothies nearly every day.
If we live our lives in fear, we don't necessarily live longer; often, we don't live at all.

[napstress]

In wake of third and fourth deaths, DHH warns of dangers when neti pots used improperly

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

First Posted: January 17, 2012 - 5:18 pm

BATON ROUGE, La. — State health regulators warned residents Tuesday about the dangers of using neti pots improperly.

A neti pot, which looks like a genie's lamp, is commonly used to irrigate sinuses. The Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals issued its warning following a third and fourth death this year caused by using boiling tap water in neti pots.

Users are cautioned to let the water cool to 90 degrees Fahrenheit or less before use.

Check out the date on this! Night Monkey, have you been time traveling to the future?

[peterg]

how long before we need prescriptions for Netti Pots?

and how many people have died from having a neti pot stuck up their noses?

I used cooled down boiled water as a standard when I was going through my potti stage, and salted after that, it pays to be cautious when doing unnatural things.

[Guest]

Re: Naegleria fowleri , aka Brain Eating Amoeba

Postby hshields on Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:48 am
In August 2011, the brain eating parasite Naegleria fowleri (N. fowleri), killed two teenagers and a child in Virginia, Florida and Louisiana.

Naegleria fowleri, is a brain eating amoeba which is found in sewage and sewage sludge biosolids. (Bose, Ghosh, 1990; DeJonkheere, 1977; Visvesvara, et al 1990; Thomas Sawyer, 1989; Singh & Das 1972; US EPA, 2003; CDC; Joel Griffin, 2007, etc.)



This protozoa infests soils, thermal waters and sediments in warm shallow waters which are subject to runoff from land applied sewage and sewage sludge biosolids. Victims inhale the parasite up their nose where it travels to their brain and kills them.

Per CDC, between 2001 and 2010 there were 32 deaths in the US from N. fowleri. 46 percent of Florida Lakes were found to contain N. fowleri. Between 1983 and 2010, Texas reports 28 N. fowleri deaths.

There were seven victims in summer 2007, all young males between the ages of 10 and 22

CDC reported 23 cases of the condition between 1995 and 2004.




The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) acknowledge many cases of primary amoebic meningoencephalitis (PAM) – caused by Naegleria Fowleri-- have been misdiagnosed as meningitis, pneumonia, bacteremia, various encephalitis infections, etc. A spinal tap and autopsy are essential for accurate diagnosis.

Brain infections take many young lives each year. How many misdiagnosed victims of brain infections have actually died from inhaling the
the brain eating amoeba N. fowleri in sewage sludge biosolids runoff to warm, shallow surface waters ? Why don't the US EPA and CDC warn the public of this health risk from exposure to sewage and sewage sludge biosolids runoff to surface waters ?

Helane Shields, Alton, NH

[idamtnboy]

Damn, let's take all the fun out of life. Since the age of two I have swum regularly in the southern lakes and mountain streams. I have spent hours diving under Dad's sailboats and keeping the slime scrubbed off the bottoms. Surely there are lots of amoebae living in that slime and no doubt little particles have often gone up my nose.

Unfortunately, the world is changing. When I was in high school and doing irrigating work for a local rancher I used to just get down and take a drink right out of the ditch in the middle of a field. And of course, nobody back then in the 50s and 60s gave a second thought to drinking water right out the creeks of the central Idaho mountains, and hence in the irrigation water of the valleys. Now, giardia parasites are present all over the mountains and in the formerly pristine clear waters out there. When we go camping now we take drinking water with us. What creek water we use to wash dishes is boiled first. And this is all in the mountains uninhabited by people, just wild animals. Deer are the primary carriers of giardia, and it's their excrement that is contaminating the creeks.

[cindjo717]

Even in my humidifier for my c pap machine I use Distilled water and once per week I put it in dishwasher on the anti bacterial cycle.. you never know.. I have an old neighbor who is in her early 40's in the hospital for weeks now- they could not figure out what was wrong. She had brain lesions, they did spinal taps- they could not come up with a definitive diagnosis.. They said it was meningitis of some type. I wonder if it came from this.. at first they thought it came from a mosquito bite.

[Lizistired]

I wonder about immune systems too. Why do some people get MRSA... more and more everyday.
Here is another interesting article. http://www.fox8live.com/webmd/infection ... T_VLg.cspx
I says untreated (unsalted) water for nasal rinse is one of the causes.

[Linus]

I wonder if the municipal water supply had an outbreak similar to a Cryptosporidium contamination? In that case, tap water is not safe until the source of contamination is found. This sounds like a very rare situation caused by a break down in water treatment processes. Like shark attacks, the chances are extremly rare but reported upon as if there is a serious rise in cases.

[archangle]

Something's not right here. If neti and tap water will give you naegleria, so will showering and drinking water. Yes, you get more contact between water and nose with neti, but there are a lot more people drinking water and showering than netiing.

[Lizistired]

Something's not right here. If neti and tap water will give you naegleria, so will showering and drinking water. Yes, you get more contact between water and nose with neti, but there are a lot more people drinking water and showering than netiing.

Arch, if you click on the link I posted above, it explains why this doesn't happen. Other interesting notes in the article are that it survives up to 113 degrees, so most water heaters should take care of that. It can't survive in salt water. I can't imagine using a neti pot without salt, but maybe that's because of the chlorine in my water.

[chunkyfrog]

If you swallow, there is stuff in your stomach that will kill almost everything.
As for rain, showers, etc; our nose holes point down--good design. (or natural selection--whatever you like.)

[VVV]

Something's not right here. If neti and tap water will give you naegleria, so will showering and drinking water. Yes, you get more contact between water and nose with neti, but there are a lot more people drinking water and showering than netiing.

Arch, if you click on the link I posted above, it explains why this doesn't happen. Other interesting notes in the article are that it survives up to 113 degrees, so most water heaters should take care of that. It can't survive in salt water. I can't imagine using a neti pot without salt, but maybe that's because of the chlorine in my water.

Based on advice from the utility company my hot water heater is set at 120F. This is too hot for a nasal rinse, so I always mix in some cold water which has not gone through the heater.

There is also the issue of showering and bathing where cold tap water (unsalted) is used.

But this is not something I will worry about. I agree with ameriken, "one has a greater chance of dying in a car accident on the way to the store to buy distilled than they do from dying from an amoeba in their tap."

Drive defensively and enjoy the weekend,

[ywp]

To answer your question. low dosage of chlorine is highly reactive to small simple bacteria. Larger organisms like amobea , giradia, etc. will go into a protective state when they sense enviromental dangers. They can form a spore with a thick shell. And it takes an extrem level of chlorine to get thru the shell.

For these larger citters utilities use filtration equipment. Any utility using surface water has to have filtration. Utilties using ground water sources do not have or need filtration equipment.

What can happen is a section of the water system can be stagnant and lose it's chlorine dose. Then a small film can grow on a surface (biofilm ) Then in this biofilm these free range amobea find a little place to live and grow.Eating the biofilm. A larger utility can have more of these sections. But they also do more testing. Protection is provided by the utility checking chlorine residue at all ponits. The chlorine does not kill the amobea but keeps out the biofilm they live on. Also, new regulations and manditory testing for tthc and haa5 points to stagnant spots. And also the new regulations on surface water and ground water under the influence of surface requires filtration in all cases.


I am a water operator in Arizona. I was at a conference last month at the state health department. The state epidemologist that monitor this gave a update presentation. Arizona had 8? deaths in 10 years. all were from water sport. 2 young boys that died was first blamed on a water utilty, because of poor chlorination. But one played in a stagnant jazcussi? and one played in a new swimming pool before it was chlorinated. Nation wide they had heard of only one death ( nettie pot) that was not from swimming.
Main point is all cases. it has to get into the roof of the nasal cavity and follow the main nerve bundle to the brain. Nose plugs or mask would be effective.

More interesting is they had a death from a new amobea. This one lives in the soil and if it gets in a cut or wound can migrate to the brain.

Drinking water is safe for drinking. It is not intended to be injected up the nose. If I was going to inject I would boil.

[Lizistired]

VVV, really, How much water runs through your tap before it gets to 120 degrees. You can't fill your pot at a comfortable temp during that time??

[archangle]

[quote="Lizistired"Arch, if you click on the link I posted above, it explains why this doesn't happen. Other interesting notes in the article are that it survives up to 113 degrees, so most water heaters should take care of that. It can't survive in salt water. I can't imagine using a neti pot without salt, but maybe that's because of the chlorine in my water.[/quote]

The article says that drinking the water is safe, but that doesn't really make sense. I'm sure we've all occasionally choked on drinking water and got some up our nose. Even if you don't blow lots of water up into your nose, don't you think some of the naegleria would still be in your throat and make the trip back up to the nose if you cough or sneeze right after you swallow? Not many people do neti. Everyone drinks water and coughs.

As far as showering, even though it's big for a germ, it's still microscopic. Showering is well known to aerosolize water droplets, which you will inhale.

The gunk in your nose is intended to protect you from germs. Maybe naegleria simply can't easily penetrate into the tissues of your nose until you do neti and wash away the protective layer of mucous from the linings of your nasal passages. Maybe the salt solution somehow eases the transition into your body. I wonder if neti/nasal irrigation doesn't leave you a little more susceptible to infection through the nose in general right after irrigating?

Even though there aren't that many cases, this is becoming worrysome. I might reconsider using tap water.

Don't put much faith in the statement that naegleria can't survive in "salt water." I presume they mostly mean seawater, which has a lot more salt than neti solution. Also, even if it would die in neti solution, how long does it take? Will it die between the time you mix the solution and the time you use it.