OT: Maricopa County Sheriff to Investigate Fake B/Cert

[snuginarug]

They call that 'compassion' and 'tolerance'. And it's not just on this board.

You can find hypocrisy anywhere. It is not the sole property of liberals.

[moresleep]

Isn't this discussion one that should take place on some political board? I'm not an Obama fan--although I do think we need to support our president when we can, just because he is our president--and I do not approve of "liberals" who have no tolerance for any views but their own. But, do we really need this discussion here? The heading says it all--a county sheriff who wants to "investigate" qualifications for the presidency of the nation. Well, if his constituents are silly enough to allow him to act (and spend their money) that far outside the scope of his county office, fine. But, do we really need to get involved in the discussion on a sleep apnea board?

[idamtnboy]

Seems like Sheriff Joe is going to investigate BHO's supposed fake birth certificate.

Shortly after Obama's birth cert was released, I did a Google search for Hawaii birth certificate, or some such terms. An image came up of the birth cert for some actress who was born in the same hospital, I think on the same day, with a registration # within one or two numbers of Obama's. The posted image is a negative and is dated back in the 60's or 70's, before programs like Adobe Illustrator or Photoshop existed. When you reverse the image it is obvious that the copy of the certificate is made from a photocopy overlaid on another paper. The photocopy is a page from a open book pressed down on the copier glass. The book obviously is the one holding the original copies of certificates. The paper is some sheet with some sort of printed background pattern and bears the stamp and signature of the official certifying the authenticity of the certificate.

Obama's cert is exactly the same, except the copy is a scanned digital image, from an open book, of the original certificate superimposed on a digital background image which carries the digital version of the official's certification. All the outcry about the composite nature of the certificate when it was released, as could be easily seen in Adobe Illustrator, was a lot of fuss about nothing. The simple fact is the document issued by the Hawaii officials is a composite document. That's the way they do it.

[Slinky]

MoreSleep, we understand what you are saying. BUT - the subject is clearly marked OT: and what it is about so those who don't appreciate political discussions here don't have to bother opening and reading it.

For those of us who do: this is our "family", this is the forum we take part in, so if we go off on a tangent now and then, as long as we mark it OT: and as long as we don't actually come to blows ... we air our views and stir the pot a bit.

[islandboy5150]

Read these please:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=296881

Look with an open mind. Lay aside differences in political affiliation, take the emotion out of it, look at this as if it were just some plain old type written form from the sixties. Ask yourself, how could these anomolies have occured on a typewriter from that time, and how could it simply be a scanned copy of the typed hardcopy form with these kinds of computer generated problems?

How could a typewritten document from that time have several different fonts and sizes of the same letter throughout the document? A typewriter will not change font or letter size of a particular letter such as A, S, or the number 2. It just isn't possible for a manual typewriter to do that. Meaning, it was forged in an document creator software using letters and numbers copied from several different similar documents that were each typed on different typewriters then pasted the letters and numbers together to make this birth certificate. There are other details that prove it was created in computer software and that it's not a simple scan of an original typewritten form. Look closely, read closely, learn about how document creator software works and you too will believe it's not a real typewritten document from 1961, or even a scanned copy of one.

I wish it were real, but it's just not. We may very well have an illegal alien in the White House, acting as Chief Executive of the United States of America. Face it.

[Slinky]

1964 I was using an IBM Selectric II typewriter w/the choice of font balls.

[islandboy5150]

Yes, you probably were, Slinky. But, that model was not readily available in 1961 and even if it were, that would mean the person typing the form would have to change balls very other letter just about, and have so many different type balls that they would have had to use to accomplish all the type differences in this document, it's just not possible that happened in this case. Plus, there are letters that share the same vertical space on the same line, impossible even on the IBM Selectric.
Look here:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=308397

This will give you a really good idea of all the typesetting problems with this document. It's a real eye-popper.

[idamtnboy]

Two, maybe three, problems with the so called expert analysis of the PDF document. One, it appears to me the "experts" have never actually used manual typewriters nor been associated with the lead type printing business. Letters on the manual typewriters could vary significantly depending on the force used to press an individual letter key, the force used to push down the shift key which will cause capital letters to have varying positions on the line, the condition of the ink ribbon which can have unbelievable variation within one inch of ribbon, and the accumulation of debris inside the letters on the type bars. All these variables contribute to inconsistencies in the quality of the typed letters. Many of the same issues are present in hot lead typesetting systems, which is how the original blank form would have been produced, although not nearly as severe and apparent.

Add to that the settings of the program used to scan the document, and the thresholds in it for converting the original image into pixels of varying color depth. Two letters, one crisp and black and one with darkness variations, can produce dramatically different digital images. Now, take an image from the scanner such as a jpg file, and superimpose on that a second image. Then print that out to a file with a PDF printer. If the resolutions of the two jpgs differ, and are not the same as the final PDF, a very likely situation, you can have all sorts of final image variations from the resampling of the resolution that takes place to make the conversion.

Now we have the "experts" analyzing the document. They have at their disposal all sorts of tricks and setting adjustments in their own programs, be it Photoshop, Illustrator, Paint Shop Pro, Irfanview, and who knows what all. When you have people hell bent to prove a point their credibility is open to question simply because of the ease with they can produce manipulated results. The same tricks they claim the "forgers" used, they can use.

In my opinion, the sheer number of "discrepancies" the experts point to are too numerous and variable for an amateur forger to have come up with. A professional forger would have known what the experts would be looking for and would have taken pains to make the forged document as bullet proof as possible. To me, the inconsistencies prove the authenticity of the document. Someday I may make a close look at all the variation in the letters the experts claim prove the forgery. Two copies of the letter S that I did look at, one light and consisting of pixels all over the gray scale, and the other dark and only a few shades of gray to black, are identical in size and shape when superimposed one on the other. The edges differ because of feathering of the color variation.

Today's computer program expert users often have no clue as to what the old analog mechanical world produced. It was a hell of a long way from being clean, crisp, and consistent.

[islandboy5150]

Read Mr. Vogt's conclusions again, you have to click on a highlighted part of text in the article to read his analysis. Not sure if you did that, you don't indicate if you did or not in your post, but Mr. Vogt IS a typesetting analyst and has been in business of that for decades, including when manual typewriters were used. Please read his article carefully. If you want an easier way to get to it, I created another thread on the proof, which has the link directly embedded in the post. It's much easier to get to it from that thread. In essence, he says that there is no way to change the FONT of the same character on the same document, typed by the same type writer. Idambtboy, these are different FONTS AND STYLES AND SIZES of the same letters, with different angles of lines that make the letters too. There no way that dirt, bad ribbons, or the impact pressure can change THAT. It's different styles and sizes of the same characters we are talking about here. Not all the possible effects of dirt, ribbon placement, ect. Look closely and you'll see what I mean. There are many different fonts as you know, and they didn't change font and size as you type the document on a manual typewriter. It's just not possible. These aren't artifacts left behind by dirt. They are different letter styles all together, and different sizes too. All from the same typewriter? No way Jose. Just cant happen.

[islandboy5150]

Results of investigation are coming out in a week. Let's start a pool on whether the media will report on it a all if it's true that the BC is a fake, and how many stories per hour will they saturate the airwaves with if it's real? LOL. GAME ON. Better yet, let's start a debate on the likelihood of the sheriff being paid off (or otherwise convinced) to find its real. Just like the blogs revealing how State of Georgia got two permits from the administration to build nuclear power plants a week after the eligibility hearing in return for "finding him eligible" to be on the ballot in Georgia?
Chicago style politics in the Oval Office? Never, no way. With all this transparency around?

For all the those out there who get their socialist panties in a wad, you may have this next week to do your handwringing and fret over the prospect of losing the "Annointed One".

On the other hand, everyone else has a week to fret over evidence the new world order is actually taking hold. You decide.

[greatunclebill]

i don't like the guy. period. i don't like anything about him. he's a fake puppet.

buttttt........ in all fairness with this business about the date the selectric with balls came out, read on ibm's own website that it came out in 1961.

http://www.ibm.com/ibm100/us/en/icons/selectric/

also a couple other sites that mention 1961.

http://historyofit.com/feature/36

http://selectric.org/selectric/index.html

i do however question a hospital in the brand new state of hawaii having the newest and best typewriter money could buy, so soon after it was introduced at a time when airplanes were not that far removed from water landings and in fact did still water land in most islands - and - everything came in by slow freighter.

[Arizona-Willie]

In the year 2535 they invented a time machine.

Since the Democrats had nationalized all business due to profiteering by Republican businessmen, they have control of the time machine and the research being done with it.

The Flying Saucers are actually people from the future in the time machine bubbles who have come back to straighten things out.

So they came back and doctored the documents in Hawaii to make it look like Obama is legal.

And, every so often, people see one of the time machine bubbles being used by kids in history classes in the year 2575.

That's the true story of flying saucers.

Everyone knows that.

[islandboy5150]

In the year 2535 they invented a time machine.

Since the Democrats had nationalized all business due to profiteering by Republican businessmen, they have control of the time machine and the research being done with it.

The Flying Saucers are actually people from the future in the time machine bubbles who have come back to straighten things out.

So they came back and doctored the documents in Hawaii to make it look like Obama is legal.

And, every so often, people see one of the time machine bubbles being used by kids in history classes in the year 2575.

That's the true story of flying saucers.

Everyone knows that.

Sounds as plausible as anything else I've seen. Still, the best explanation of it is........IT'S A PHOTOSHOPPED DAMN FAKE.

[idamtnboy]

Can't resist rising to the bait! Going back to the "expert's" opinion all the type couldn't have been from one typewriter I offer the following examples. First though, the typewriter was not an IBM selectric. I believe they only used carbon plastic ribbons which produced type much clearer than what is shown in the BC copy.

The examples below are from a document my wife typed in the mid 70's using the Olympia manual typewriter I bought for college in 1963. It had Elite Gothic type font which are cleaner and simpler than the Courier used on the BC. Even this clean block type produced widely varying type impressions. The scans below are from a photo copy of the original. I made the photo copy with an HP scanner and Lexmark laser printer so it probably was of better quality than the original photocopy of the BC. The two document portions are in grayscale and black & white. The grayscale letters are in the comparison pic. I admit to picking letters that showed as wide a variation as possible to drive home the point that manual typewriters of years ago produced inconsistent typed documents.

[BlackSpinner]

This is more honest
http://www.thegrio.com/politics/lawsuit ... ulatto.php